Discuss Detroit » Archives - January 2008 » Brooks Brother in RenCen Closing. « Previous Next »
Archive through January 15, 2008Craig30 01-15-08  10:01 am
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Rax
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Post Number: 94
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I take it GM is no longer subsidizing the retailers for the Wintergarden?



BB is not in the Winter Garden.
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Smogboy
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Post Number: 6920
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Gnome really put it clearly and concisely when he mentioned today's less formal business atmosphere. There seem to be less and less days of truly dressing up for work anymore. Instead of casual Fridays being a maverick day, sporting a suit & tie seem to be the odd day out now. Not that a bit of formality is a bad thing but culturally we just seem to be shifting towards a more casual business attire.

Famed designer Karim Rashid mentioned at a recent lecture in town about how the dry cleaning business was once a multi-BILLION dollar business and has since taken a nose dive the last few years because of this shift. No longer are people dropping off their three piece suits to be dry cleaned. It's a much more simple wash & wear society now and maybe this is where Brooks Brothers failed to catch this trend and had to close its RenCen store.
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Boo
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Post Number: 186
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i am not a big fan of those shirts with the ugly white cuffs and the button down collars. i can handle a french cuff now and then but not more than once every 2 or so weeks. i am a relatively slim "pinch an inch" type of guy- try finding a fitted shirt in the rencen that does not require expensive tailoring. if you do, please let me know where you found it so i can ride the elevator down on my lunch break to pick one up.
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Buyamerican
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Post Number: 290
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Stupid idiots didn't even shop at a fine store in their own building...

Yet another reputable national brand name leaves downtown."

You can always count on Mack to provide insite on economic problems in Detroit.
Maybe if Detroiter's and all Michiganders had purchased more GM automobiles, the employees could afford to purchase from Brooks Brothers and we wouldn't have a one-state recession.

Remember...

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA! Point proven.
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Rax
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Post Number: 96
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe if my Hummer got more than 6 miles to the gallon, I could have afforded those pants from Brooks Brothers. What a stupid post.
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Waymooreland
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Username: Waymooreland

Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't look now, folks, but:

"Borders Express – Level 1/Tower 300
STORE CLOSING SALE! Entire store at least 40% OFF (does not include magazines, comic books or gift cards). Select Items 50%—75% OFF!! Last day open is 1/26/08. We have enjoyed serving you! 313.259.8263 "

Courtesy of www.gmrencen.com in the Weekly Specials section. Lose a bookstore & an upscale clothier, gain a CVS. Fair trade?
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Higgs1634
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Post Number: 277
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Boo. BB has a slim fit shirt. look for the blue labels (instead of red). Probably some good "location closing" sales going on. And they generally have a good variety.

BuyAmerican... The BB in GP doubled its size in a recent expansion. BBros also just opened a huge store in Partridge Creek. That makes 5 in SE Michigan alone. The problems with the BB in the RenCen have more to do with Detroit's inability to support retail than the state's overall economic malaise. If GM was making record profits there would still be no shops in the RenCen and no one shoppng at the BB there.
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Rb336
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Post Number: 4516
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sorry, RenCen is not now, never has been, and never will be a shopping draw for people who do not work there, and not much for them either.
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Waymooreland
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Post Number: 20
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rb336: based on the aforementioned closings, it would seem that the RenCen's management company agrees with you!

To me, it seems like it could be a viable shopping draw if downtown had a significant residential base to support it. I don't work there, but I do shop there on occasion because it's close and convenient for me. But I do go there for the movie theater, going out to dinner, the YMCA or my dentist more often than I do for shopping.

Doesn't it seem that downtown has never really had the kind of residential base needed to support RenCen retail at any point since it opened in the mid-'70s? I mean, even shopping centers that do draw customers from up to 30 minutes away surely rely primarily on a customer base from their general surrounding area, right? I just don't think you can rely solely on commuters or out-of-towners to support retail, so only a strong residential base could make RenCen retail work.
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Buyamerican
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Post Number: 291
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Maybe if my Hummer got more than 6 miles to the gallon, I could have afforded those pants from Brooks Brothers. What a stupid post."

No one held a gun at your back and forced you to purchase a Hummer that gives you 6 mpg. American automakers do build good, dependable, economic cars...they are out there.

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
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Rax
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Post Number: 97
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That 6 mpg was just a guess. Maybe I'll look at a 38K Buick Lucerne. That seems worth it.
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Iheartthed
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Post Number: 2523
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

To me, it seems like it could be a viable shopping draw if downtown had a significant residential base to support it. I don't work there, but I do shop there on occasion because it's close and convenient for me. But I do go there for the movie theater, going out to dinner, the YMCA or my dentist more often than I do for shopping.



I think it failed because that area in particular doesn't have a critical mass of stores to attract shoppers.

From a logistics standpoint, who is going to drive all the way down there just to buy a shirt at Brooks Brothers when they've probably passed 3 on the way? What if you get all the way there to find that they don't have what you want then what? If there was a variety of shopping then it probably would have had a better chance of survival.
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Higgs1634
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Post Number: 278
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can I still get a Camaro when the come out? After all they will be entirely built in Canada...
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Waymooreland
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Post Number: 21
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"If there was a variety of shopping then it probably would have had a better chance of survival."

That's the whole thing, though -- someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm relatively certain the the RenCen's retail offerings were much more diverse and plentiful in the early days (late '70s, early '80s) and it still flopped. That's why I think the root cause is lack of downtown residents.
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Dds
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Post Number: 516
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Maybe if Detroiter's and all Michiganders had purchased more GM automobiles, the employees could afford to purchase from Brooks Brothers and we wouldn't have a one-state recession.



So if Detroiter's bought more GM cars there would be a Brooks Brothers in both the Ren Cen and the Penobscot Building now?
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Gannon
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I dunno.

I worked at Anton's Menswear in 1986 in the RenCen and consistently made the company newsletter for sales performance.

We were usually just behind the big mall stores and Gabe's original location...but NOT far for a store of only three salespeople, including the manager!


Heck, shoe sales alone were off the charts every month...but I might've just been that good with the travelling baseball players. Set them up with a gaggle of girls from UofM-D to party with, too, at Galligan's.


Things changed when the workforce went casual...THAT was the doom of higher-end clothiers everywhere.
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Sirrealone
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Post Number: 71
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Things changed when the workforce went casual...THAT was the doom of higher-end clothiers everywhere.



I think that has more to do with Brooks Brothers than anything else. A store that sold affordable polos and khaki's would probably see a lot more interest. I worked at the RenCen for a few months, and never considered going to BB, for the reason that I didn't really have a need to.
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Buyamerican
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Post Number: 292
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Profits from American cars stay in America...what don't you understand about that?
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Iheartthed
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Post Number: 2525
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Profits from American cars stay in America...what don't you understand about that?



...but not Detroit...
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Gnome
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Post Number: 568
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Buyamerican-
I think it's great you support the car business here in town. Heck, someone has to. But this thread is about a clothing store in the Ren Cen.

Clothing. Ren Cen. No sheet metal involved. None.

When was the last time you bought a suit? How much did you spend? Where was it made? Did you get a tie and shirt or was it just a suit. Did you alter it there or take it to your local tailor?

Retail. Clothes shopping. In a huge, land locked, bunker of a complex. Please add to that discussion.

Not gas prices, not Bush or Clinton or Paul or George C. Wallace. Not Zeros spinning out of the sun, baking the Sands of Iwo Jima while doing battle with Pancho Vila at Little Big Horn!

Clothes. Only f+++king clothes. Retail clothes.

Get it? Huh?
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Dds
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Post Number: 517
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Profits from American cars stay in America...what don't you understand about that?



I understand that completely. What I don't understand is how you can directly correlate the two. The casual workforce is a much more feasible/direct theory. What you suggest seems like seven degrees of separation. It's your pat explanation for everything, but reality is a little more complicated than that.

The next thing we'll hear from you is that people buying foreign cars is the reason why you have gout.
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Dds
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, Gnome.
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Buyamerican
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Post Number: 293
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know that this thread is not about automobiles. However, when someone writes a response like mackinaw did, ie.,"stupid idiots not shopping in a fine store in their own building", got my ire up. Just about everything in Michigan and especially Detroit is geared around the auto industry. If it fails, the consequences of that failure is not only felt by autoworkers...there is a definite trickle down effect in every business. Local bars, restaurants, clothing stores.
Profits DO stay in Detroit iheartthed. What logo is on the RenCen? What huge auto complex is on Connor and Jefferson? Those two companies alone are a large tax base for Detroit.
I don't care what anyone says or believes, the American auto industry and it's demise is the leading cause for the recession in Michigan.
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Dds
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Buying American will do no good in keeping a high end clothing store (or any other stores for that matter) unless the companies are managed better and the unions decide that they also must do their part in ensuring the business remains competitive (which with the recent concessions, they have started to realize that).
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Miketoronto
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is weird they could not make a go for it.
I find it funny how many of you say people will just shop when they get home.
As was just stated in Charlotte which has an even smaller downtown workforce then Detroit; people will shop downtown and want to shop downtown when they are down there for work. And downtowns are losing out on millions of dollars of retail sales.

Why would a man not buy a suit when at work? For example here in Toronto Harry Rosen a famous mens store, has three stores in downtown Toronto. One is located right in an office building, and is one of the largest stores in the chain. It caters basically only to business people downtown for work, and they make tons of money, eventhough their flagship store is only five min away.
Who says business people won't shop?
What you have to offer is the best selection and unique offerings, so people will shop at lunch or after work.

The only losers in this game should be the suburban malls, who could lose millions from downtown workers shopping downtown.

I make a point as it is to shop downtown for most things. I work downtown and even without my values of supporting downtown, it makes sense to do my shopping downtown instead of at the suburban mall. I walk outside my workplace, and have a huge selection of stores of all kinds, etc. Why not just walk five min and get what I want, and then ride home, without needing to stop anywhere in the burbs.

Downtown Detroit has a huge untapped market. And so does Eastern Market for that matter.

Hell, one downtown office building here in Toronto even has a supermarket that caters to commuters who want to pick up a fresh piece of fish or something before commuting home to the burbs.

Downtown retail can work well.
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Softailrider
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't think of anybody who would make a special trip to the rencen to shop at Brooks Bros. You got to avoid the psycho meter maids and find a place to park , go through security , It's just a total pain in the ass getting around in there . Compare that with a drive to a mall , free parking and a no stress atmosphere .
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Dbc
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where am I going to do my Christmas shopping now???? Seriously, when I'm home from DC for Thanksgiving or Christmas, I DO make a special trip to the RenCen to hit Brooks Brothers for most of my clothing gifts. (Gift certificates at Laffrey's, Roma Cafe, and Iridescence and miscellanea at Pure Detroit usually round out my attempt to do my Christmas shopping in the city.)

Personally, I absolutely DESPISE malls! The last thing I want to do when I'm home visiting is make a trip to Twelve Oaks or Somerset. Especially, over the holidays.

It's really too bad that that store is closing, because although the selection was a bit limited, they nevertheless had nice stuff for both men and women and helpful staff. As for priciness, I find it in the same range as comparable stores at the mall.
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Miketoronto
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How does Pure Detroit make money with three stores so close to each other? Everytime I am in Detroit and buy stuff there, I am like the only customer. Don't get how they make money with all those stores.
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Msamslex
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Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another Ren Cen store closing. Got an email from Border's. Border's Express closing 1/26, everything 40% off except mags, newspapers, and other items I can't remember off hand.
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Professorscott
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Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 12:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike, Toronto has a massively different vibe than Detroit. You "walk five minutes" and get what you want. So do I, when I'm in Toronto. Watch Detroiters next time you're down here. With the exception of special events, downtowners drive in to work in the morning, park as close as they can and beeline to their office, and reverse it in the evening.

There's very little sidewalk pedestrian traffic most of the day which accounts for the lack of retail and the relatively small number of eateries and drinkeries. I don't walk when I'm in Detroit, and I'm a walker. Detroit isn't walkable and there's no reason to walk. I walk in Chicago, New York, Toronto, Boston and Minneapolis, but not Detroit. And I never shop when I'm downtown (which is pretty often) because there aren't stores (so far as I can find or see) that have anything I want.

There are even silly gaps. I wait for a bus in Capitol Park (the major downtown transit center right now) every morning and could use breakfast. Try finding some. (Note to locals: coneys aren't breakfast.)

Part of this has to do with the daytime population. You're in Toronto, which has an impressive daytime business population; Detroit's has declined to the point it makes little sense for businesses to locate there to try to capture the small amount that's left. It's improved a bit the last five or seven years but still has a way to go. Also, specifically with regard to the Ren Cen, it's not a five minute walk from anywhere; it's designed to prevent you from walking to it.

So stores closing in the Ren Cen is a sad thing but not, to me, surprising.

Prof. Scott
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PScott: Knowing that you use the bus stops at Capitol Park, be advised that there might be a convenience/dollar store (possibly on a corner?) downtown that's quite possibly not all that honest. Is Capitol Park or the BC downtown?

My not being a frequent shopper there, the older guy who runs the place tried to cheat me on my change more than once. Also, his marked prices may not be what he charges.

Case in point: Once while there, they had some candy marked two for whatever (since forgot). But at the cash register, that fart said that price was "last" week's. Having already had the short-change caper tried on me from previous shops there, I left without buying anything that time.

But wouldn't you know it, but the very same prices were also there the next week. I brought the signs up to the register to show the clerk, but the same old "last week" crap was the MO. So, that time I took those "perpetually last week" price signs and left the store without paying for the price signs and trashed them over at the bus stops...

(Message edited by Livernoisyard on January 20, 2008)
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Danny
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Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lack of customers at Brooks Brothers means no profits so they have to close down. The shops at the REN CEN has struggled to lure hip cool young skinny jean kids into the area. The shops at REN CEN need to bring in the shops met for younger generation for the age of baby boomers is coming to end.
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Detroitplanner
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Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You don't shop at Brooks Brothers when you are worried about your job no matter if it is the one close to your house or work.

We are living in some pretty bad times economically. No ones job is certain.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greyfield (or ghostbox) shopping centers are nearly everywhere. The once prosperous Northridge mall (started by one of the wealthiest multimillionaire US Senators--Kohl--on Milwaukee's north side in 1990 was assessed at $107, but eleven years later (2001) was sold for around $3.5 million. In 2003, it was down to its last retailer. Fortunately for Kohl, he sold it (plus his version of Farmer Jack's and Kohl's Department store chains) at its peak.

Similar malls in Madison failed because Madison is one of the most over-stored city in the country. Yet, new owners (renters, actually) gamble with their life savings, only to fail the vast majority of the time.

If cities and states that are much better off than Detroit have troubles with their retail establishments or malls, why is anybody the least bit surprised when Detroit's retailers fare worse?
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Long_in_the_tooth
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Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I sure hope that what ever takes the place of the Brooks Bros and the Borders Books will be more sensitive the needs of the people of Detroit.
Perhaps a Sharper Image.... or a tanning salon.
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Ladyinabag
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Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too square for downtown.
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Umcs
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Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't and don't shop at Brooks Brothers simply because I find their products extremely overpriced for the quality and style. Every BB's I've bought I've been disappointed with.
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Scruffy
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Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Jos. A. Bank in the Ren Cen does very well. In my view the BB is more a victim of it's miserable location in the Center. You practically need a Sherpa to find that place. Once you do, the fact that their selection relative to the Jos. A. Bank (or other BB's) sucks, their shorter hours and their lack of parking validation couldn't have helped.
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Sticks
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Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In my view the BB is more a victim of it's miserable location in the Center. You practically need a Sherpa to find that place.

You got that damn right. The RenCen wasn't exactly engineered to be conventional, thus, it's a pain in the ass to walk around in circles trying to figure out if level A is higher than level 2 or lower than level B. All the exposed concrete makes it fun to look at, too.
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Long_in_the_tooth
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Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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Bagman
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Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 4:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brook Bros went were the people were.
They had been in the Penobscot Bldg. As that building started to empty out they left. They then disappeared for a few years and then returned to the Ren Cen......
I guess GM has cut back to many suits.
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Erikd
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Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had never shopped at BB until they opened the RenCen store. Over the last few years, I have purchased a dozen shirts, and promoted this store to other downtown workers and residents.

In most cases, I found that downtown residents and workers were not aware that this store even existed.

I don't remember BB doing any advertising or promotion of the RenCen location. Without a high profile location in the front lobby or Wintergarden, the BB store missed most of the foot traffic.
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Erikd
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Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the lack of customers at the RenCen BB is the result of poor planning and the failure to do any marketing or advertising.

As Scruffy points out, the Jos A Bank in the RenCen does far more business than the BB. The reasons are very simple: Jos A Bank has a much better location in the building. Jos A Bank sends out special discounts to frequent customers. Jos A Bank does outreach to downtown businesses, offering discounts to their employees. Jos A Bank has later hours, and they are open on weekends. Brooks Brothers never did any of these things.
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Eric_c
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Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 8:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All the reasons above, along with reliable service, are what make me a Jos. A. Banks customer over Brooks Brothers. I've bought a dozen suits and sport jackets from them over the last few years, as well as accessories. God forbid they should ever close my Ren-Cen location.

Hey, Erikd - sorry I never got a chance to call you back! The Auto Show goofs up my schedule!
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Aiw
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Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was down at the RecCen today. Both the Brooks Brothers and Borders locations are now vacant.

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