 
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 635
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:08 am: |    |
No question that Detroit's institutions are hot stuff, but art and culture as they bisect with life are (I've found) more prevalent in suburbia. The full summer schedule of 'concerts in the (local) park' and neighborhood book discussions/clubs were unknown to me in the City. |
6nois
Member
Username: 6nois
Post Number: 617
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:51 pm: | |
But they do exist craig, there is a series in New Center, in a neighborhood park that happens in the summer, there are also poetry slams at the local book store, art classes in the basement of a gallery, and other events that constitute the "bisection of life and art" that you speak of. So I would venture to say if they were unknown to you then you weren't looking for them, you wrote off what you didnt see but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 636
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:03 pm: | |
One day we need to schedule a big field trip: a driving & walking tour of the areas in which most Detroiters live... not the garden spots and showcase neighborhoods, but the areas where a guy working tool and die or a woman working as a nurse can afford a home.
No question that pleasant oases are found in the City, but holding up the exception is to miss the greater reality. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 515
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:06 pm: | |
You mean the guy working tool and die pulling in over $100k a year with overtime and the nurse who's making at least $40k? Yeah, I'm sure they are living in absolute squalor. |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2238
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:14 pm: | |
Chene Park! Very close to many waterfront high rises and East side neighborhoods.
BTW, how many museums are there in Rochester? How many (insert an ethnicity here)-towns are there in Rochester? The lists can go on for Detroit... |
French777
Member
Username: French777
Post Number: 311
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:21 pm: | |
In the Rochester,Rochester Hills and Oakland Township area AKA Rochester Community Schools Area there is about three. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 638
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:41 pm: | |
el_jim - more like a production bozo and nurse's aide; add in the clerk at CVS and the guy working at the dry cleaners. Not sure about your Detroit experience, but my neighbors were hard-working people, few of whom who had HH incomes north of $50 or 60K, and many well south (just a few years ago). |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2529
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:43 pm: | |
Okay, so should the city of Detroit cease to exist and send everyone away to the surrounding suburbs? |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 639
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:55 pm: | |
Ridiculous question, but I think that I get the point. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 518
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:57 pm: | |
Craig, I was using your examples. If you gave bad examples the first time around than it is your fault. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 640
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:59 pm: | |
No, good examples: shoddy comprehension. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 520
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 2:15 pm: | |
Craig,
You said, "One day we need to schedule a big field trip: a driving & walking tour of the areas in which most Detroiters live... not the garden spots and showcase neighborhoods, but the areas where a guy working tool and die or a woman working as a nurse can afford a home. "
YOU said a guy working tool and die and a woman working as a nurse. YOU said it, not me.
A guy working a UAW tool and die job can make over $100k a year with overtime. The average starting salary for a nurse is $48k and the average salary for a nurse after 5 years is over $55k. This would put their combined income, if they were married, at around $155k a year. I'd say these people are doing alright.
If you were trying to use these individuals as examples of people who couldn't afford to live in a nice neighborhood, then yes, they were bad examples.
As I said. My comprehension was not the problem. I got what you were trying to say. Your examples were the problem. |
Asbury
Member
Username: Asbury
Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 2:39 pm: | |
The topic of this was about the low prices of home in Boston-Edison. My question is can this neighborhood return to what it once was? |
Rfban
Member
Username: Rfban
Post Number: 242
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 3:14 pm: | |
Thank you Asbury, It can be sustained--it has always been sustained, that is why it is still intact. |
Rfban
Member
Username: Rfban
Post Number: 243
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 3:15 pm: | |
Original glory though? ehhh prob not, though you never know. I would like to see values higher than this. This scares me. |
Ltdave
Member
Username: Ltdave
Post Number: 110
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 4:58 pm: | |
""She told me about the whole story about how the factory there messed up the lake/river there & about how the chemicals from the plant got mixed into the cattle feed(yeah they did cattle feed at the same plant they made a fire retardent chemical).""
ah yes. the imfamous PBB screw-up of the 70s. i did a term paper on that in 9th grade if i recall. i had forgotten all about that until now... |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1386
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:36 pm: | |
"The topic of this was about the low prices of home in Boston-Edison. My question is can this neighborhood return to what it once was?"
Well I'll answer that question with this:
Can Detroit return to what it once was?
Remember, If there's no Detroit, there's no Boston-Edison. |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2241
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:40 pm: | |
The answer is, "Yes it can." If for no other reason than simply the fact that that neighborhood has more to offer than a suburban neighborhood. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 641
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 8:02 pm: | |
Jimbo - get a life, or at least get out of the silver slipper district and see how most Detroiters live.
Good luck, guys. You need it. |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 4649
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 8:52 pm: | |
"My question is can this neighborhood return to what it once was?"
Of course not, unless you can bring the Fishers, the Fords, the Siegels, the Kressges, etc back from the dead and then get them to move back into their old places...
Then you would have to get the neighborhoods surrounding BE to fill up with the wealthy and the upper middle class instead of the desperately poor , the getting by and the just making it...
But can the neighborhood be reinvented? Sure.
It would help if B/E did not have limitations on the number of people living in these homes...on the other hand, that might bring in Adult Foster Care homes, which some people don't care to live near...
Unlike many areas of the city, like Southwest, the BE area does not have such a high level of walkability, and by that I mean a store that you can walk to at night. |
Asbury
Member
Username: Asbury
Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 11:00 pm: | |
I mentioned this on the Arden Park post. I do not see why a few homes could not be transformed into upscale condos. Maybe there could be limits as to the size of the house such as over 6,000 sq ft and units must meet or exceed 2000. Plus a restriction on Adult Foster Care. Just seems to me more would be able to afford and would be home owners |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 524
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 8:45 am: | |
Craig,
Sorry your lame examples couldn't cut it. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 643
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 9:19 am: | |
(Metric) (Year) (Detroit) (Mich)
Persons per household, 2000 2.77 2.56
Median household income, 1999 $29,526 $44,667
Per capita money income, 1999 $14,717 $22,168
Persons below poverty, , 1999 26.1% 10.5
http://quickfacts.census.gov/q fd/states/26/2622000.html
$155K HHs? Maybe, but in the those scattered pockets cited above by others. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 526
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 9:37 am: | |
You are absolutely correct, but you said, tell me the neighborhood a nurse and a tool and die worker could afford. I answered your question. If you were looking for the question of what neighborhoods do the poor people live then you should have asked that question. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 644
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 9:46 am: | |
Jim, Jim, Jim...
Heading back to the adults' table now. |
Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline
Post Number: 992
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 1:04 pm: | |
Nice discussion about several Detroit issues that are on the front burner for lots of folks. A few comments on these posts: quote:For high school, my parents and I decided that U of D High in the city would be the best place for me. Many of my (and my parents') friends said that this would be a dangerous decision. Putting a kid at such risk was foolish, they said. One of my friends bade me farewell from middle school with a wry "good luck not getting shot." Boshna's family's choice of school decision exposed a poisonous and ignorant attitude among certain of their friends and family that is far too widely held in this region and this state. There is absolutely no denying its existence. It comes from an entitlement and privilege mentality that finds it acceptable to point fingers and criticize when identifying a problem as opposed to asking what can I do to help. Lot of armchair commentators around this region ask what's wrong with those people in Detroit causing problems in their neighborhoods and why do they live like they do. A better question is why don't more people around here get involved in helping Detroit improve.
A couple of other education related posts: quote:How does a family with school-age children wishing to relocate to Detroit-without having to send their children to Waldorf or some other private school-do just that?
Or are all you "hopefuls" advocating for Detroit Public Schools ?
Can't change what you don't acknowledge, hopefuls. And quote:if you don't feel comfortable sending your kid to a DPS school, then there are plenty of other options beside Waldorf, which is ridiculously expensive. Nobody is avoiding the problems of the DPS. But, Craig's experience notwithstanding, the DPS is not hopeless. The district does provide a number of worthwhile options for people (black or white or hispanic). Every year the DPS produces thousands of well-educated graduates who go on to succeed in higher education.
Also, the comments on the expense of private schools in Detroit are somewhat off-base. An adjective like "ridiculously expensive" is somewhat subjective so it's important to have facts when evaluating the issue. The least expensive non-public schools in Detroit and SE Michigan are the parochial schools operated by the Catholics, Lutherans and other Christian faiths. Almost all of these schools charge tuition in the $6K-$9K range. The ones on the lower end of that range usually require you to belong to the affiliated church and make Sunday contributions to the church in annual totals of $1K-$2K. The two non-parochial private elementary schools in Detroit, Friends School and Detroit Waldorf, charge about $8K-$9K depending the enrolled grade. These schools also have substantial financial aid offerings for families that aren't in the big bucks range. Notably, the tuition for these two schools is 40%-50% less than that charged at the marquee Oakland County and Grosse Pointe private schools (Country Day, Univ.-Liggett, etc.). The point here being is that the two Detroit private schools are only nominally more expensive than the least expensive private school choices anywhere else in the region. If one finds them too expensive, then any non-public school anywhere will be too expensive for that family. (And for further comparison, don't most public school districts in Michigan spend in the $8K range or more per student?) |
Rfban
Member
Username: Rfban
Post Number: 246
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 1:51 pm: | |
Well stated swingline, nice post. It's defiantly on the front burner for us. |
Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 2037
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 2:57 pm: | |
Thanks to Swingline for his earlier post on property taxes, too. Property taxes should not be a major concern with these low-priced homes. If you buy one of these homes, you just need to appeal your assessment up to the state level (which is admittedly a hassle) and get it lowered to (or close to) the price you paid for the home. With the NEZ in Boston-Edison, the millage is around 50 mills, only slightly higher than suburbs such as Grosse Pointe.
Bottom line, if you buy one of these homes for $30,000 for example, once you get your assessment lowered you should be paying something like $750/year ($30K / 2 * 0.050) in property taxes.
And I think the whole "fix the public schools and they will come" argument doesn't make sense, because:
* It is probably impossible in the near term to fix Detroit Public Schools to an extent that would really attract large numbers of people to move into the city. (God bless those at DPS who are working hard to improve things, though.) Part of the intractable nature of this problem is with the racial makeup of the schools.
* People don't typically move from suburbs into major cities for the schools. Nobody is moving to Manhattan, Chicago or San Fransisco for the public schools, but those cities are doing pretty well. It's the people without kids that typically do this, whether young people, DINKs, gays, empty-nesters, etc. It's a lot easier to attract these types of people to move into the city, and it's probably the only thing that will work, at least initially. Although one interesting thing that's happening in some neighborhoods in Chicago for example, is that some families with kids start to move in some years after the people without kids have stabilized a neighborhood.
* And despite the problems with much of DPS, there are some good options out there, such as charter schools, private schools and some of the public magnet schools.
So IMO, public schools are irrelevant to the near-term future of neighborhoods like Boston-Edison.
On the other hand, I agree that crime and trash/blight are legitimate concerns which are potentially fixable, and if resolved would have a huge positive impact. Insurance rates are a concern only insofar as crime is a concern; if the crime issue is resolved, that will resolve the insurance problem. Also, a real mass-transit corridor along Woodward would have a big positive impact. |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2253
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 3:31 pm: | |
Dougw, on a previous thread, there was essentially mentioned one thing that the DPS could do to increase its desirability. We talked about how the DPS could greatly be effected if there was something akin to the Kalamazoo promise. I for one think that it should at least be tried in a few Detroit neighborhoods or at a few schools to give the idea a test. Sure the DPS couldn't fund the program, but why not get everyone in that neighborhood to contribute from the local businesses to even large city employers and corporations?
https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/91697/101886.html |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 496
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 3:38 pm: | |
I'm not sure what that would accomplish. What is the incentive for people to move into a neighborhood where their kids' college will be paid for if they have to pay into the fund that pays for their kids' college? |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2255
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 3:40 pm: | |
Perhaps nothing, but wouldn't it be worth a shot? Just try it out in a neighborhood... |
Urbanoutdoors
Member
Username: Urbanoutdoors
Post Number: 707
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 5:00 pm: | |
B-E and La Salle Blvd remind me a lot of what we saw in woodbridge and corktown 20 years ago. Though demographics are different this is better quality housing stock than that which was left in those neighborhoods before they turned around. Though the cost of repairing these houses are much more expensive so are the rewards of owning a home such as this.
Questions I have, in my head that might lead to a turn around would be...
Is it still feasible to have these houses classified as single family residences only? Part of the resurgence of other neighborhoods has happened because of the rental market in those areas. Also safe transport, woodward is not the best, is there any other route that would allow people to make it down to campus ond bike safely? How could we improve the corridor streets such as Linwood, 14th, 12th, woodrow wilson, 3rd, and second. Would a new business related non profit be able to redevelop vacant land that has sat vacant since the riots? This could also cut down on blight.
I believe it can happen it just takes good sound planning and tremendous amount of community participation. where there is a will there is a way and if these things happen I see a brighter future for B-E. |
English
Member
Username: English
Post Number: 644
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 5:34 pm: | |
"It is probably impossible in the near term to fix Detroit Public Schools to an extent that would really attract large numbers of people to move into the city. (God bless those at DPS who are working hard to improve things, though.) Part of the intractable nature of this problem is with the racial makeup of the schools."
Racial makeup, or socioeconomic makeup?
Or are you an adherent to "The Bell Curve" theory? |
Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 2040
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 5:51 pm: | |
Sorry, I should have clarified that more, I'm not an adherent of the Bell Curve theory. I do mean racial makeup, but I meant that it is a problem only in the sense that many (not all) white parents in metro Detroit would be reluctant to move their kids into a public school with a predominantly (90%+) African-American (or Latino, etc) population. Regardless of the quality of the school. This just seems like a tough problem to overcome, especially with some of the attitudes in metro Detroit regarding race. |
Jenniferl
Member
Username: Jenniferl
Post Number: 418
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 11:42 pm: | |
Someone earlier asked about Detroit Northern High School... The school is still open, but it's been transformed into some kind of all-girls' magnet school. Sometimes I see their students on the bus-- they wear pink and black uniforms that look pretty cool compared to the usual navy-and-white combos. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 946
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 12:02 am: | |
I think that most parents are living in the moment of here and now because of work and don't want to deal with more crap on the table.
Many white parents think sending their kid to a public school in Detroit where the chances of them getting the crap kicked out of them are over 90% would be suicidal to their marriage. |
Gianni
Member
Username: Gianni
Post Number: 342
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 1:23 am: | |
Quote:
"No question that Detroit's institutions are hot stuff, but art and culture as they bisect with life are (I've found) more prevalent in suburbia. The full summer schedule of 'concerts in the (local) park' and neighborhood book discussions/clubs were unknown to me in the City."
Let's see. Starting in February:
Winter Blast
Downtown Hoedown (May)
Technofest (May)
Cinco de Mayo (May)
Festival of the Arts (June)
Tastefest (July)
Concert of Colors (July)
Fourth Street Fair (August?)
Jazz Fest (September)
Dally in the Alley (September)
Noel Night (December)
Fourth Fridays at Campus Martius all summer.
First Fridays at the DIA all year.
Those are just the main ones I go to all the time that are less than 10 minutes away, most by foot and the rest maybe a 30 minute walk or 10 minutes by car. Except for the Technofest the last couple of years, they are all free and a lot of the music will move you and even bring tears to your eyes, not just entertain you. There are many, many world class musicians, or at least cutting edge Detroit bands, that perform at these festivals every year.
And there are others I haven't been to yet, like Jazzin' on Jefferson, Gospelfest, or the music festival Corktown has had I think the last couple of years.
I'm just talking about free music here, mostly outdoor music and mostly in the summer. And I'm only talking about the major festivals, not the smaller neighborhood, events, church events, school events, library events that are way too many to mention. And that is just music, not the other arts and artists that are all over the city.
These festivals are just one example of where my life, my communtiy, and my city "bisects with art and culture."
Oh, and I hear we have a few bars and clubs where the music is OK.
I'm sure you have nice festivals in the park in the suburbs.
If you want better than nice, try the city. |
Hamtragedy
Member
Username: Hamtragedy
Post Number: 55
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 1:38 am: | |
Asbury, your question once again about can BE return?
As of 5 of 6 years ago, there was every reason to be hopeful about BE and Arden Park (AP). I was working on several houses there, and slowly but surely, block by block, things were looking up. Prices were rising, enough to price me out, even on Atkinson (1 blk south). One could hear the Northern High Marching Band practice thru an open window. Granted there were still the assholes holding on to their dumps for the highest bidder, (despite all the re-wiring going thru the laundry chutes), the prostitutes on the hoods of cars & front lawns, and at least the nursing home was still open.
Then somewhere about 4 years ago, artificially inflated appraisals by local scum banks with their gimmick mortgages slowly caused the whole process to reverse. Never mind it took the city TWO YEARS to change a run over lite post at the corner of E Boston and Oakland. The nursing home closed, leaving a beautiful yellow brick building wide open to scrappers, several boulevards went uncut, and despite the King Cole rebuilding after a fire, locals rarely shopped there (shootings in the parking lot rarely make a grocery store inviting to anyone, yet alone single females).
To watch the unfolding of the optimism to me, after such promise (there were huge amounts of optimism after a young Kwame took office) was so disheartening that I don't even like to drive thru there anymore. I mean, boarded up houses on Voight Park???? It seems unreal. And you know a bunch of those houses have been scrapped out, and from someone who tries to save those houses and restore them,........I live two miles away. I won't drive thru there until the trees bud.
And stop trying to condo those houses out. You're not in Boston or NY, Remember, just cuz it works somewhere else means that the same thing rarely, if ever, works here. Subdivide those houses and they'll be destroyed within a generation. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 646
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 2:32 am: | |
Gianni - airdrop into my old neighborhood, Fenkell and Lahser, and draft a list for those people. Your litany reads like a tourism piece for the old South Africa: yes we have wonderful things, but they are mostly inaccessible to the masses. Hop a bus and ride downtown, I know, but my point is that a walk across the street or a five minute drive in suburbia brings options (daily options, too) that most Detroiters don't have.
I know of & patronize showcase offerings in the City, but do you get that outside of Detroit's few middleclass enclaves there is a void? Take that ride to Lahser and then tell me about the culture and beauty enriching the lives of the locals. |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2515
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 1:59 pm: | |
I have mentioned in past posts about the many Catch-22s that Detroit faces. Boston-Edison is yet another one. The homes are beautiful, but too big for most Detroiters to maintain. If we could convince the wealthy in West Bloomfield or Birmingham to move into these homes, then they would be well maintained. However, these folks wouldn't want to live just moments aware from blight and crime that surrounds the area.
A most unpleasant but workable solution to saving the area would be to tear down those B-E homes that are deemed beyond repair and promote developers or individual citizens to build newer but smaller homes. The cachet of living in B-E district would still be there, just without the huge heating bill.
BTW, Urbanoutdoors, using John R or Third streets might be decent alternate routes for bike riding to and from downtown. |
Rfban
Member
Username: Rfban
Post Number: 251
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 3:15 pm: | |
"A most unpleasant but workable solution to saving the area would be to tear down those B-E homes that are deemed beyond repair and promote developers or individual citizens to build newer but smaller homes."
^ I don't think this is the solution. Why would anybody want to do that when they can have a beautiful house across the street for .25 of the cost of building a new one? Plus have the satisfaction of knowing they truly had a significant home from architecture to quality of construction. I understand your point if the area was hot, e.g. Palmer Woods in the 50 & 60's, or Birmingham for the opposite reason today. This however, never was, nor is the case in BE.
The sad truth is BE seems to be in decline; the good news is that it’s not the first time. Luckily the hosing quality is so good and there always seems to be people who are attracted to it despite the surrounding neighborhood—I am pretty sure it will overcome all and all.
What we need to do is sustain the area first—occupancy, occupancy, occupancy. Thereafter you can encourage new growth as much as your little heart (and your pocketbook) contends. Neighborhood decline starts with people leaving, for whatever reason, this leads to more outbound perceptions which leads to more people leaving. In this case people are leaving because they bit off more than they could chew and the mortgage industry provoked them to do it while at the same time valuing the properties artificially. Whatever the case, bottom line is that PEOPLE ARE LEAVING.
So how do you rectify this? I don’t know. If we knew the answers to this question we would be seeing the light of day already. I do know that it is in our best interest to keep people occupied in Metro Detroit—please dig your heels in! We will create a new workforce and create optimism for the region. Detroit needs this. |
Swiburn
Member
Username: Swiburn
Post Number: 221
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 9:27 am: | |
My family lived in an urban setting (Flint) and we put our kids in the Catholic schools. It was really nice to live close to museums, college libraries, swimming at the "Y", etc. They were enrolled in an all white public school, but it just wasn't up top the high standards of the integrated Catholic school.
The difference between Detroit and Flint seems to be that I don't sense any safety in walking around Iroquois or Boston-Edison, but I did in Flint, though its' crime rate is high. Go figure. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 647
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 10:49 am: | |
Parkside? |
Swiburn
Member
Username: Swiburn
Post Number: 222
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:24 am: | |
No, it was just a working class neighborhood near Dort, but my kids' classmates did come from Parkside, Mott Park and especially the Court St. neighborhood.
It wasn't the greatest neighborhood, but it is possible to live in an urban setting and derive many benefits. Just depends on how creative and patient you are. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1409
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:31 am: | |
Swiburn, that's just your paranoia.
The way I see it, if no one wants you or what you got, then you have no reason to feel unsafe. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1411
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:45 am: | |
Boston-Edison is in a blank slate.
You have nothing but blight and urban decay surrounding it.
On the other hand, you have the convenience of Downtown and the suburbs in a 5 minute ride (or a good walk). The New Center area is just a couple minutes away.
Other increasingly notable Blank Slates are East English Village/Morningside and Indian Village. Again, you have The water just walking distance from your home, easy access to Grosse Pointe or downtown, and cozy middle and upper class homes. But, they're also surrounded by or experiencing urban decay, flight, or the fear of safety. |
Pam
Member
Username: Pam
Post Number: 3341
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 12:32 pm: | |
quote:You have nothing but blight and urban decay surrounding it
Wrong. This is across the street:
http://www.detroit1701.org/Mos tBlessedSacrament.htm |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1412
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 12:46 pm: | |
Pam, they also have churches in the suburbs. In other words, people aren't going to move in a certain neighborhood just to praise the lord when they have a car that can drive them there or a bible at home to do so.
You completely missed the context of my post.
(Message edited by detroitrise on January 21, 2008) |
Pam
Member
Username: Pam
Post Number: 3342
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 1:49 pm: | |
quote:Pam, they also have churches in the suburbs. In other words, people aren't going to move in a certain neighborhood just to praise the lord when they have a car that can drive them there or a bible at home to do so.
I was using the church as an example of something that is not blighted that is in the area around B-E. Your statement that "nothing but blight" surrounds it did not make any sense to me. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1414
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 2:02 pm: | |
Well Highland Park and the Linwood corridor aren't necessarily Beverly Hills. In addition, crime is also a huge issue in this area.
(Message edited by detroitrise on January 21, 2008) |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 4674
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 2:02 pm: | |
There she goes again, ruining a perfectly good over-generalization with those damn shades of gray. |
Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 2042
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 2:44 pm: | |
English -- Re-reading my earlier post, I realize that snippet from me sounded downright racist by itself, I shouldn't have posted it without the extra context. Hopefully it makes more sense in the context of suburban families moving their kids into schools.
On another note, I guess one argument in favor of schools still being an important factor to neighborhoods like B-E is the size of the homes, which in many ways are ideal for families with kids. I think my other arguments to the contrary still apply, though.
Detroitrise, you're sort of right about the blank slate, but that's been true for 20+ years and B-E has perservered, that's not a new problem. The current problems are more due to what Hamtragedy talks about, the appraisal scams, etc. |
Neilr
Member
Username: Neilr
Post Number: 643
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 5:05 pm: | |
Dougw, historically, the Detroit Public Schools did not draw school attendance areas to contain a whole neighborhood or other such demographic; but rather the plan was to bring children from several neighborhoods to the same school. In the case of Boston-Edison, rather than long east-west boundaries that followed neighborhood lines, the attendance areas were drawn on north-south lines. Children living close to Woodward were assigned to Doty; between Hamilton and 12th, Crosman; and those between 12 and Linwood went to Roosevelt. The high schools serving the neighborhood were Central (west) and Northern (east, again with north-south boundaries) and, of course Cass Tech. The idea being that children are best educated as a part of a mix.
A similar division of attendance areas occurred in the Indian Village neighborhood.
To bring the solution into the present, I don't believe that the school district's improvement will come about by fixing just one school, servicing one elite neighborhood to the exclusion of the surrounding areas. We are all, it seems, in this together. |
Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 2044
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 10:00 pm: | |
Interesting about the attendance areas Neilr, I did not know that. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 953
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 12:00 am: | |
When I was ten years old, I asked my dad, while driving through it, why he didn't want to live in Indian Village, because I saw some awesome houses there. He said (basically), the surrounding areas were not good and in disrepair. He did not want to jade me.
As he and his grandparents grew up in Detroit, he saw the trend in the late fifties and decided to move to the burb's in mid sixties. |
Rooms222
Member
Username: Rooms222
Post Number: 85
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 3:18 pm: | |
Another one of my favorite websites, fatwallet.com has a long thread that has developed about investing in Boston-Edison.....
http://www.fatwallet.com/t/52/ 802690/ |
Detroitbill
Member
Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 429
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 4:38 pm: | |
Craig , what Gianni showcased is Detroit and what we Detroiters associate with,, it happens to be alot bigger geographically than each suburban area.. When I lived in the burbs there was a nice array of cultural attractions in the area ( Huntington Woods/Royal Oak ) but nothing compared to living in the city downtown. I was not by any means accessible to the culture one has living downtown at least. Its very consistent here and extremely diverse. Many neighborhoods in the city certainly dont have these options but for those of us downtown, suburban "culture" lacks many things we have at our fingertips. |
Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 2064
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 12:54 pm: | |
Hamtragedy wrote:
quote:As of 5 of 6 years ago, there was every reason to be hopeful about BE and Arden Park (AP). I was working on several houses there, and slowly but surely, block by block, things were looking up. ...
Then somewhere about 4 years ago, artificially inflated appraisals by local scum banks with their gimmick mortgages slowly caused the whole process to reverse. ...
Here is a great cartoon summary of the subprime lending fiasco which fueled the artificially inflated appraisals and most of the foreclosures in B-E and other neighborhoods:
A Subprime Primer
Though I agree with Rbfan that B-E has been in decline before, and has come back before, so it can come back again. |
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