  Dkhbike Member Username: Dkhbike Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2007 |
LOL. Ya gotta love these curb cutouts with the sidewalks to nowhere. Our tax dollars are hard at work here. 0%2C15.196471038073175,http:// maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42 .371568,-83.045129&spn=0.00469 2,0.010836&z=17&om=1&layer=c&c bll=42.369214,-83.045613&cbp=2 ,278.46184010407915,,0,15.1964 71038073175 | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 11285 Registered: 12-2003 |
good catch Dkhbike. Welcome to the forum. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11740 Registered: 10-2003 |
What's the point of sidewalks, everybody walks down the middle of the street anyways. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 11292 Registered: 12-2003 |
There are laws against that, aren't there, Sport? | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 328 Registered: 07-2007 |
I'm sure they are required by law or engineering standards. If you move across the intersection, itlooks like they are probably being done in advance of some street work. Still, looks like a rough area. | ||
Melody Member Username: Melody Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2007 |
People walking in the middle of the street drives me crazy. Here's another concept the people of Detroit just don't get: When you're walking and there is no sidewalk, you walk AGAINST traffic. When you're riding your bike in the street (which you should do always) you ride WITH traffic. To do otherwise is illegal, dangerous and dumb. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 276 Registered: 03-2005 |
Does it have to do with who owns the parcel behind the sidewalk? Are there special assessments associated with upgrading and repairing sidewalks? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4315 Registered: 02-2005 |
Actually the tax dollars are hard at work. Much like in Brush Park and the far East side near Jefferson, infrastructure overhaul is preceeding residential redevelopment. Home developers will have a clean slate, and in this neighborhood you mapped, but more so just to the south of here I think, there are rumors of serious new housing development. These have been discussed on this forum. | ||
Lafontaine Member Username: Lafontaine Post Number: 4 Registered: 06-2006 |
They're putting the curbcuts in all 4 corners of the intersection. I went up to Dubois to Palmer and Hendrie to see the same thing. The street scene at Dubois and Medbury shows the cement truck right in front of The Promise Land church. The crew are all looking at the camera car. Get back to work, gentlemen! (Love that old gas station at that intersection) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6113 Registered: 08-2004 |
Melody I agree... it drives me crazy too. And especially at night... why must people wear such dark clothes so that when they're walking in the street, it makes them invisible at night? | ||
Tayshaun22 Member Username: Tayshaun22 Post Number: 398 Registered: 02-2005 |
You walk in the street so no one jumps out at you and mugs you. | ||
Skamour Member Username: Skamour Post Number: 224 Registered: 02-2004 |
Waste of money. Makes it easier for cars to turn without slowing down...which means a worse intersection for pedestrians. Continue to build the suburbs in the city... | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 1074 Registered: 11-2004 |
Curb cuts are suburban? | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 330 Registered: 07-2007 |
The curb cuts are designed to be accessible for people with wheelchairs, etc. which is why they slope to the street. They also have the rubber bumps to alert blind people to the presence of the street. What does any of that have to with turning the city into the suburbs? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4317 Registered: 02-2005 |
Skamour makes a legitimate point. A traditional corner is at or near a 90 degree angle. This is rounded off, and the effect is duley noted by Skamour. This is typical in new suburbs. Overall, I still think the new infrastructure is a good think on the whole. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 11296 Registered: 12-2003 |
Wow. I never really thought of the altered apex at these corners. I should be able to decrease my time out of the neighborhood by...what...a tenth of a second! You couldn't buy that kinda time improvement in horsepower...or rubber! Thanks for the tip. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2212 Registered: 10-2006 |
Since when are sidewalks considered suburban?••••• I'm sure that people in Detroit need curbs cuts as much as those in W. Bloomfield. | ||
Keystone Member Username: Keystone Post Number: 273 Registered: 10-2003 |
The installation of these curbcuts was a requirement of a lawsuit that the City lost a few years ago. The suit was brought as a result of the City not complying with the requirements of the American with Disabilites Act (specifically with the bus system). As a result of the suit, the city must comply with ADA sidewalk requirements for the entire city. If you noticed downtown, many of the curbcuts that were replaced just a few years ago (and were in fine condition) have been torn out and replaced. Who pays? We all do. But to mitigate the costs, the Traffic Department is 'requiring' any developer that touches one corner of a parcel to comply with the requirements for the entire crosswalk. The net result is if you're improving one corner, you get the priviledge of paying to replace all four corners. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2498 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: When I was younger my parents always told me to walk and ride my bike against traffic when in the street. Especially in Michigan where drivers aren't used to sharing the roads with non-motor vehicles... | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1773 Registered: 07-2004 |
Best of all was the west side of downtown. They had laid in new curbs, new sidewalks, AWDA-mandated curb slopes, etc. Then it was all obliterated for the casino superblock. What a waste! At some point, these federally mandated curb standards are more a pay station for contractors than a way to genuinely help city residents. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 303 Registered: 10-2006 |
Definitely ride with traffic and walk against it. At least thats what they teach you in Boy Scouts | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4318 Registered: 02-2005 |
Gannon, for people that don't use logic and reason like you, they still take advantage of that angle to roll through a corner at a higher speed. This often endangers pedestrians and could lead to traffic accidents. These curb cut angles aren't particularly large, but there is literature about how the really wide ones in suburbs wreak havoc. All this curb-cut business is up there with street-widening and lane-width discussions. They force governments to spend big $ employers civil engineers and construction companies to do non-neccesary work, all because of special interests like wheelchair people or fire department advocates who believe the old-standard for lane-width was unsafe, thus narrow, intimate streets are unacceptable. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 248 Registered: 09-2006 |
So, Mackinaw says fuck them cripples?? | ||
Missnmich Member Username: Missnmich Post Number: 637 Registered: 11-2004 |
because of special interests like wheelchair people or fire department advocates who believe the old-standard for lane-width was unsafe, thus narrow, intimate streets are unacceptable. Bless your heart, young man. I hope you never have to eat those words. The ADA was compassionate legislation, pushed and passed by Republican President Bush (senior). Thanks to the ADA, my wife has the freedom to use her wheelchair in any place you can. I hope age teaches you compassion ... | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 507 Registered: 10-2006 |
quote: And the fire department! | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4560 Registered: 10-2003 |
Stupid fire department. Always insisting on crap like "safety" and "saving lives". Pfffffffff. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 249 Registered: 09-2006 |
Yeah, I don't mind crawling down every street taking off side mirrors along the way if it means intimate streets. Intimate streets! I've been telling the powers that be that we should be purchasing really skinny apparatus. After all, ya know, intimate streets! Touching post, Missnmich. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1780 Registered: 07-2004 |
Even laws with the best intentions wind up being pay stations for corporate dickbags. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 549 Registered: 08-2007 |
Mackinaw, you can apologize any time. We're waiting. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1782 Registered: 07-2004 |
Haha. The audacity of MissBigot asking for an apology is hilarious. Anyway, saying that a lot of the work mandated by ADA provisions is wasted payola is not the same thing as punching some old lady in the stomach. And, deep down, I suspect you know that.  | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2504 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: That's not Cleo. Cleo is Missmich, not Missnmich. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4563 Registered: 10-2003 |
DN, that's not MissBigot. Unfortunately the new name Cleo picked is only one letter different from Missnmich's handle. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1783 Registered: 07-2004 |
Thanks, guys. Sorry, Missnmich. (Wipes some egg off.) But, I stand by my argument against false equivalency. | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 508 Registered: 10-2006 |
quote: No, but I now have a clear picture of you walking around and punching old ladies in wheelchairs in the stomach. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2214 Registered: 10-2006 |
Take a look at p. 28 in the Dept. of Justice ADA Design Manual: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/a dastd94.pdf There are plenty of ways to design the curb cut at the corner. It doesn't have to be ramped down to street level for the entire radius. Hell, you probably could but a bollard in the middle of the radius at the curb if you really wanted to. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 550 Registered: 08-2007 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =_5iCBlFbVOk now we know what D-nerd does in his spare time | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1784 Registered: 07-2004 |
Hahaha! Gnome, that was the funniest! I'd write more, but my right fist is all taped up! It's punching time! | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4322 Registered: 02-2005 |
I sympathize with the disabled and their right to mobility. I didn't judge this, but I commented on the effects. Paramount among these effects is massive government outlays. It's certainly something which begs a cost-benefit analysis. Nonetheless, don't attribute any antipathy to me. Regarding the fire departments and their massive lane width requirements, their demands can be flatly rejected. I can bring forward some sources if neccesary. Have you ever wondered why dead-end subdivisions roads that carry all of 10 cars per day are so wide? The modern book of civil engineering was written with concerns like trying to fit three fire engines down a street at the same time (next to each other, not in a queue) in mind. Okay that was hyperbole, but such safety hyper-consciousness was very influential. This curb-cut issue is merely tangential but not a bad time to bring this up. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 552 Registered: 08-2007 |
MAckinaw, your words were hurtful, the right thing to do is to say, "I'm sorry. I misspoke and didn't intend to offend anyone." Digging in your heels makes you look bad. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4325 Registered: 02-2005 |
Indeed, I didn't intend to hurt anyone, and sorry to those who read it the wrong way. | ||
Ro_resident Member Username: Ro_resident Post Number: 287 Registered: 11-2003 |
Some work (or potential work) on the road somehow triggered ADA compliance for curbcuts at that intersection. This isn't just a Detroit issue, but a national issue. In the past couple of years there has been enhanced enforcement of ADA guidelines. Trust me, a lot of public works departments are making sure all of their infrastructure meets federal guidelines. A funny story--Royal Oak just completed a ten year program to replace and upgrade sidewalks throughout the city. Part of the border with Clawson is unusual. It follows lot lines, not the street centerline. Well, the contractor for that job got a little overzealous in that area of town. They started upgrading two intersections that were fully within Clawson. Someone from the City of Clawson sheepishly told me that they were still waiting for the invoice for the work. | ||
Yeti Member Username: Yeti Post Number: 29 Registered: 09-2007 |
A waste of taxpayer money is evident in Canton. There are several points where there is a sidewalk just in front of a business, it dosn't continue past the edge of the property. The company pays for the cost of the sidewalk, its part of the building permit process or somthing. If you want to build on your land, you have to add a sidewalk. But anyways, the part that is a waste of Taxpayer money is, at the end of each non-connected sidewalk is a sign that says "Sidewalk Ends" When ever I sse that sign I think to myself "no sh*t". And these are all over Canton. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2257 Registered: 10-2003 |
If you're angry that the City is tearing out curb cuts just a few years old to install ADA compliant curb cuts, blame the City not the ADA lawyers. As someone who works in urban planning for a city, this is pretty well known stuff. It's the incompetent city engineers and/or designers of the project who are at fault. There are valid safety reasons for having these ADA compliant cross walks and they should be installed properly, especially in an urban environment. Other cities around the country have no problems complying and have been installing proper sidewalk curb cuts for years. Detroit and a handful of other cities seem to be the only ones with problems. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4328 Registered: 02-2005 |
The same thing happened throughout parts of downtown Ann Arbor this summer. Relatively new sidewalks cuts were replaced with subtly different new ones. I never was sure exactly what the difference was. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 335 Registered: 07-2007 |
"But anyways, the part that is a waste of Taxpayer money is, at the end of each non-connected sidewalk is a sign that says "Sidewalk Ends" " That didn't cost the taxpayers a cent. Those signs are put in by the developer. The signs seem ridiculous but you know that some braniac rode or walked off the end of one and complained, leading to everyone putting them up to avoid going through a Feiger-time lawsuit. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 384 Registered: 06-2005 |
Sometimes those end of sidewalk signs indicate a change in the public right-of-way. In other words, the sidewalk ends because the land past it is private. |
