 
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3242
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:50 pm: |    |
Hopefully he doesn't have much more trouble finding tenants than One Kennedy did...
Granted, he's got more space to fill, but this is the top location downtown right now... |
401don
Member
Username: 401don
Post Number: 213
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:40 pm: | |
When I grow up I wanna be a mogul. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4359
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 4:43 pm: | |
Congrats and good luck to Papas. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 4865
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:09 pm: | |
The Detroit News refers to the 103-meter tall 1001 high-rise as being a skyscraper. A baby skyscraper today weighs in at around 45 to 50 stories, minimum (~500 feet tall).
Are Detroit's high-rises described as skyscrapers for a good reason? Or is that simply some ignorance on the part of the reporters and editors at the News? |
D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 114
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:21 pm: | |
Skyscrapers are determined by the context of the city they are located. High-rises in new york are skyscrapers in Detroit |
Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c
Post Number: 1144
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:24 pm: | |
http://dictionary.reference.co m/browse/skyscraper |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 4866
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:28 pm: | |
Obviously, many of Detroit's eighty-year-old "skyscrapers" are now merely mid-sized high-rises today. So, is Detroit really a city of skyscrapers anymore? |
Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c
Post Number: 1145
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:30 pm: | |
Detroit was never a "city of skyscrapers". It has them, but we're a city of homes.
Do you disagree? |
D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 115
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:32 pm: | |
To Detroiters...they certainly are. You cannot say Detroit buildings aren't sky scrapers, because in their context, they are the tallest things in which one has a visual reference too. Much like a 10 story building would be a skyscraper in Fargo, ND. |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2240
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:32 pm: | |
"Like some folks mentioned before... a building that does not have the possibility for windows that open, becomes a liability for marketing as residential."
Actually, that is less and less true in new residential high rises. Rich people that buy these $500,000+ units almost inherently expect that they won't be opening windows. Down here in Charlotte, there is a residential building without operable windows that we did a couple of years ago where the engineers eliminated a 'fresh air intake' system for the units due to the cost. Needless to say, on cold mornings in the winter, the units get condensation on the inside of their windows. You just can't expect people who buy a half million dollar unit are going to open windows, esp. in the winter... |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 4867
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:40 pm: | |
I understand the contextual definition of a skyscraper. But, by that definition, a tall grain elevator could be also be a skyscraper in a farming community.
However, Detroit is a city and the Detroit News is expected to report about things in a 2008 context. The 1001 still doesn't cut it as a skyscraper because there are a few actual skyscrapers nearby. Poor or deceptive reporting and editing... |
D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 116
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:46 pm: | |
No, LY...A tall grain elevator would be a skyscraper...Context is only relevant to the surrounding structures, not the time in which the building exists |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 4868
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 5:52 pm: | |
Calling the 1001 a skyscraper is engaging in puffery. Like something ad men might do when selling soap and such. |
Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c
Post Number: 1146
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 6:09 pm: | |
You guys are stupid. |
Detx
Member
Username: Detx
Post Number: 55
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 7:58 pm: | |
Looks like a skyscraper to me... |
Taj920
Member
Username: Taj920
Post Number: 277
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 8:12 pm: | |
In the 20s and 30s, Detroit rivaled New York and Chicago in terms of skyscrapers. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4362
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 8:16 pm: | |
Alright, let's leave the extreme contextual examples like a grain elevator in Fargo out.
Let's keep this to large cities. How about we define it as a building that forms part of a downtown skyline, meaning that from at least one angle it rises above other buildings and appears to be alone against the sky at its peak.
It's hard to call this building, which is about the 15th tallest building in the city, a skyscraper. |
Mind_field
Member
Username: Mind_field
Post Number: 853
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 3:54 am: | |
1001 is not in a Renaissance Zone is it? I think the demand for One Kennedy Square was artificially created by it's RZ designation. That is a huge selling point to potential tenants. OTOH, there are these 3 other companies not affiliated with Dan Gilbert, which made verbal agreements to relocate downtown, so maybe there will be a reverse exodus back downtown in the future, depending on how desirable downtown becomes.
But for now, i doubt he will have succes leasing the building without any extra incentives. |
Histeric
Member
Username: Histeric
Post Number: 823
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 6:27 am: | |
No LY, calling 1001 anything other than a skyscraper is engaging in Detroit bashing...as in we don't have a skyscraper according to your arbitrary definition. It borders on the absurd.
We still have the third largest concentration of pre-depression skyscrapers (read: cutting edge architecture of the time) on the planet. Just because some Saudi prince or Indonesian robber baron has redefined the edge does not undo a century of history and our place in that history.
Just admit it. You are a hater. Plain and simple. |
Citylover
Member
Username: Citylover
Post Number: 2843
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 11:42 am: | |
Good post Histeric..............Absurd is the perfect description of LY on this thread; the self proclaimed genius. |
Lukabottle
Member
Username: Lukabottle
Post Number: 146
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 3:25 pm: | |
Ted and Maria Gatzaros and his wife own Fishbones.
I was told that Jim Pappas now has full ownership of the Atheneum Hotel, International Center since the split.
Pappas daughters own Mosaic. |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 282
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 3:49 pm: | |
quote:No LY, calling 1001 anything other than a skyscraper is engaging in Detroit bashing...as in we don't have a skyscraper according to your arbitrary definition. It borders on the absurd.
We still have the third largest concentration of pre-depression skyscrapers (read: cutting edge architecture of the time) on the planet. Just because some Saudi prince or Indonesian robber baron has redefined the edge does not undo a century of history and our place in that history.
Just admit it. You are a hater. Plain and simple.
What is absurd is, by your logic, a Model T is a fast car and to call it anything else is Ford bashing.
Almost a century of progress has redefined "fast". It's not 1920. We can't ignore a century of technological advancement that has redefined the term "skyscraper" so we can preserve our fragile collective ego.
Detroit has some high rise buildings...no arguing there. Skyscrapers? only if we lower the bar. If we're going to do that then I guess everyone here will have to admit that Troy has a lot of skyscrapers too.
It is not Detroit bashing to point out the silliness of calling a mid rise building a "skyscraper". Calling it such makes us all look like a bunch of 'f-ing rubes. |
Gambling_man
Member
Username: Gambling_man
Post Number: 1043
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 3:53 pm: | |
I misspelled Papas above.....sorry for that, I think I caused a landslide of misspellings..... |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6165
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 3:57 pm: | |
Gotta agree with Histeric & Citylover...
One thing to put things into perspective... New York's 14 story Flatiron Builidng... over a century later is still known as... "AMERICA's FIRST SKYSCRAPER"!
LY since you love making a meal out of a morsel, here's something for you to ponder...
Why is the squat 14 story building across from 1001 called the CHASE TOWER, and the tall 47 story tower next door called the PENOBSCOT BUILDING??
(Message edited by Gistok on January 17, 2008) |
Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1256
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 4:42 pm: | |
Just because skyscrapers have grown taller doesn't mean that shorter ones aren't skyscrapers anymore.
So Livernoisyard thinks the News reporters are being deceptive because they label 1001 Woodward a skyscraper. I'd thought I'd seen it all from him, but that's *really* a pile of stupid bullshit. |
Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1257
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 4:46 pm: | |
Most architectural historians have stated that the 10-story Home Insurance Building (now razed) in Chicago of 1884 was America's first skyscraper.
(Message edited by Burnsie on January 17, 2008) |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1390
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 4:50 pm: | |
Gistok, Why is that 100 story, 102 floor building in Lower Manhattan called THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING?? |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6169
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 4:55 pm: | |
...same reason the 110 story, 110 floor building in downtown Chicago is called THE SEARS TOWER... building owner naming rights...
... and how do you get 100 story, 102 floors??? Actually the Empire State Building is an 86 story building with mechanical floors and a Zeppelin mooring mast above that. They just got away with saying they were a 102 story building for 70+ years.
(Message edited by Gistok on January 17, 2008) |
Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1258
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 4:57 pm: | |
When elevators were introduced to buildings, skyscrapers became possible. A "skyscraper" is probably best defined as a building high enough to require elevators for use of it to be practical. Obviously, nowadays every building with two or more stories requires elevators to meet ADA standards, but that's a separate issue. |
D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 120
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 4:57 pm: | |
Burnsie...Thats what I was taught in my history class... |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 283
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 4:58 pm: | |
So anything 10 stories and above is a skyscraper now? |
D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 121
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 5:01 pm: | |
Higgs...You are missing the issue... If the 10 story building is the tallest building in a city, then yes...It could be considered a skyscraper, even though it would be a low-rise by most standards |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6170
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 5:03 pm: | |
Skyscraper (Wolkenkratzer in German) has always been a descriptive way to describe buildings. There were never any height rules as to what constituted a skyscraper.
It would be like arguing what the difference is between a boat and a ship. |
Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa
Post Number: 1371
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 5:07 pm: | |
man, this argument still hasn't gone away? this is truly an exercise in semantics.
look, the term skyscraper is a HISTORICAL term developed in 1884 to describe a tall building, at that time was 8 stories or taller. so really, you guys are arguing about what "tall" defines. you can use skyscraper in it's historic term, or redefine it to your opinion of "tall." but it can be applied to anything taller than 8 stories. don't like it? tough. invent you're very own new word that you can define and yell at people for not using correctly.
and higgs, no offense, but your argument/comparison doesn't hold any water. "fast," in that context, is an adjective. skyscraper is a noun. regardless, definitions don't always change with the times. technically, troy does have a lot of skyscrapers, and midrise buildings are skyscrapers. in fact, that's why the term "midrise" was developed; to differentiate between shorter and taller skyscrapers. it's a generic term developed to describe all tall buildings. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5410
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 7:15 pm: | |
Think about who you all are arguing with. It's King Troll Itself... |
Kslice
Member
Username: Kslice
Post Number: 265
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 7:36 pm: | |
There is only one true skyscraper...
|
Yeti
Member
Username: Yeti
Post Number: 30
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 8:54 pm: | |
All Ships are boats, but not all boats are ships. |
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