Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 423 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 11:00 am: | |
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20071226/M ETRO05/712260381 Seems excessive....2 years (almost)??? I feel bad for people driving this stretch of 75 everyday for their commute. It'll be a bitch of a detour. |
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar
Post Number: 859 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 11:33 am: | |
So they are going to do less to a 2 mile stretch of I-75 in 21 months than they did to 7 miles of M-10 in 14 months? I'm confused. |
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1239 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 11:57 am: | |
Detroitstar-- They're going to build brand-new road alignments and bridges. Any time you do that, it easily eclipses in scale and cost a project like the Lodge, which only redid existing roadways and rehabbed existing bridges. |
Funaho Member Username: Funaho
Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:01 pm: | |
It will be a pain but really if you look at the sheer magnitude of the project it would have been worse to try to leave it open. Parts of I-75 are getting realigned, the Vernor Hwy bridge is going to get completely rebuilt to make it longer, the Lafayette St bridge is getting removed and there are going to be several new flyover ramps built. Trying to squeeze traffic through all that would be a mess. |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1195 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:09 pm: | |
I don't think so. Michigan, Fort St. and I-96 is right there. It shouldn't be too much of a traffic problem if westsiders learned to use surface streets. |
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 1341 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:16 pm: | |
Will Mexicantown survive? |
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar
Post Number: 860 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:21 pm: | |
That's what I get for not reading ALL of the article. You guys are right, realignment is a huge process. This will have plenty of negatives, but I agree with the line in the article that it just might draw in some people as they try to find detours. |
Kimmiann Member Username: Kimmiann
Post Number: 74 Registered: 10-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:30 pm: | |
The biggest problem I can see with this closure is that other people will inevitably figure out that there are plenty of surface streets in the area which can be used and my little secret shortcuts that I use every day will no longer be secret! |
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 1489 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:42 pm: | |
MDOT worked with the City and local groups in Mexicantown to ensure that the outcome from this project will help improve the community. Improvements include a pedestrian bridge to tie the two parts of Mexicantown together, a Welcome Center (where there was none previously), a Mercado, and the separation of bridge truck/auto traffic from local traffic. The end product should result in less congestion on city streets, a better linkage for both pedestrians and motorists between the two sides of the freeway. The Welcome center promotes tourism in the City, and the Mercado is already filling up. |
Funaho Member Username: Funaho
Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 1:12 pm: | |
By the way if there's any other road construction geeks out there like me, I have some pictures you might enjoy as I have been taking periodic photos of the progress of the work since it's close to my house. Galleries are up at: http://www.detroitfreeways.com /gallery/ |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 981 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:17 pm: | |
OK, for those of us who occasionally have to use that route, for instance going from E side of Detroit to Toledo, what do DYers suggest as an alternative? I'm not afraid of surface streets and I'd rather not go 20 miles out of my way as MDOT suggests. |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1199 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:26 pm: | |
Take I-94 to Southfield (HWY) and transfer back to I-75. |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1200 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:30 pm: | |
Or (as I stated before) just take Fort St. out of downtown until I-75 reopens (which appears to be the Clark St. Entrance). (Message edited by DetroitRise on December 26, 2007) |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5991 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:31 pm: | |
Why do I have the feeling that this is going to do to Mexicantown what Archer's riverfront casino plans did to Rivertown. 2 years is a long time. It may have a lesser impact on Detroiters going to Mexicantown... but I bet it will have a much bigger impact on suburbanites (who prefer freeway travel thru Detroit) going down there. |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1201 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:34 pm: | |
You know, I find it sad that Metro Detroiters don't even know (or don't want to know) half of the ways to get through their own city. We have a pretty good street grid outside of those expressways people! It won't kill you to take the surface streets! (that includes suburbanites). |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5992 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:38 pm: | |
... and then again... with all the idiots blazing thru stop signs and red traffic lights on the city streets... it might! (Message edited by Gistok on December 26, 2007) |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1202 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:40 pm: | |
In a nutshell, all the surburbanites will have to do is take their favorite expressway to W. Grand Boulevard and then it down to W. Vernor (including eastsiders). It shouldn't kill anyone to do that. |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 982 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:46 pm: | |
Ah, Detroitrise, I think I see the plan. For someone coming from the east or west via 96 or 94: Freeway to West Grand Blvd then south to Vernor then west to, say, Springwells then south to I-75 Is that the concept? If you're a suburbanite and you aren't familiar with the real Mexicantown, the part west of the touristy restaurant area, West Vernor will surprise you. It's like a real city in that part of town. |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1203 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:50 pm: | |
lol Professorscott, that will work as well, although you can get on at Clark St. or Livernois as well instead of going all the way down to Springwells. But doing that will play it safe. It's the same for the Lodge also. I also listed 2 other ways above. |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 983 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:55 pm: | |
Thanks, I suggested Springwells because I think there will be a huge backup at Clark (being it is the first re-entry point) and I'm sick of Livernois |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1204 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:59 pm: | |
"If you're a suburbanite and you aren't familiar with the real Mexicantown, the part west of the touristy restaurant area, West Vernor will surprise you. It's like a real city in that part of town." Yeah, I thought I was in another city the first time I went down there. The density, walkability and style of homes are astounding! |
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 1802 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 3:41 pm: | |
Sheesh! Good thing I didn't accept that job in Woodhaven. Coming from Hazel Park trying to detour every day would have been worse than commuting to Kalkaska. |
Docmo Member Username: Docmo
Post Number: 317 Registered: 10-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 4:48 pm: | |
Downtown to Trenton 3 days a week for me. The 94 to Southfield will probably be the the quickest detour. I have been very impressed with how busy Mexicantown has been over the last few months. That's even with the multitude of detours already caused by the Ambassador Gateway. |
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge
Post Number: 505 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 4:54 pm: | |
"The contract comes with an incentive of up to $8 million to finish ahead of schedule," said MDOT engineer Tony Kratofil. "A two-year shutdown is a worst-case scenario, and we will maintain access to the border crossing and Mexicantown." |
Islandman Member Username: Islandman
Post Number: 1275 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 4:58 pm: | |
Clark does get a bit backed up with all of the trucks at that intersection during rush hour. |
Yeti Member Username: Yeti
Post Number: 24 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 7:42 pm: | |
Here is a nice PDF detailing the area and the detour from MDOT. http://www.michigan.gov/docume nts/mdot/MDOT_Ambassador_Gatew ay_brochure_219274_7.pdf http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MDOT_Amb_Gateway__CityPlanning060707_199349_7.pdf (Message edited by yeti on December 26, 2007) |
Trainman Member Username: Trainman
Post Number: 600 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2007 - 10:05 pm: | |
MDOT has not supported the operating costs of public bus service since 1995 because the majority of the voters opted to change the funding mechanism from the gas tax to property. This resulted in the loss of federal and state money for mass transit. This is why we drive cars and clog our roads instead of using public bus service. Please see my website under DETROIT LINKS |
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2673 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 12:39 am: | |
quote:MDOT worked with the City and local groups in Mexicantown to ensure that the outcome from this project will help improve the community. Yeah, the outcome will be great. But the question was: will Mexicantown survive? A business can't last for long without customers. If the detours cause fewer people to visit the area, many of those businesses could be in bankruptcy long before the project is complete. Exhibit A would be all of the places along Michigan Ave. in Dearborn that went under when M-DOT redid it a couple of years ago. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6002 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 1:04 am: | |
I agree Frank... 2 years is a very long time... |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 4670 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 1:15 am: | |
quote:Yeah, the outcome will be great. But the question was: will Mexicantown survive? A business can't last for long without customers. If the detours cause fewer people to visit the area, many of those businesses could be in bankruptcy long before the project is complete. Exhibit A would be all of the places along Michigan Ave. in Dearborn that went under when M-DOT redid it a couple of years ago. Sheesh! Get serious! Michigan Avenue had business directly on it, whereas I-75 does not. MexicanTown doesn't that much depend on I-75. Besides, Fort Street is practically parallel to much of the construction, and wide Fort Street is normally almost deserted of traffic (and devoid of much business). And the new frontage road east of I-75 south of Vernor is already usable. Or IOW, SW Detroit will get by quite nicely for the expected eleven months of construction, and no Chicken Littles are needed to express their concern. |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1222 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 2:03 am: | |
LOL Livernoisyard, this is the first time I actually agree with you *Mouth Drops* |
Hudkina Member Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 84 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 3:23 am: | |
The best option coming from the east would be to take I-75 or I-94 to the Lodge and get off at the Lafayette/Fort St exit. Take Fort St to either Clark St or Junction St. Often the trucks get backed up on Fort St. between the Ambassador Bridge and Clark St. If that is the case than take Fort St. further down until you reach Junction St. Take Junction to the South Service Dr and take that until you get on the highway near Dragoon/Livernois. Taking I-94 to Southfield will probably put you in a bigger traffic snare and you'll be driving a greater distance between the highways. |
Funaho Member Username: Funaho
Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 10:34 am: | |
Some people may find it EASIER to get to Mexicantown when the construction starts, because they'll have the new piece of the southbound service drive open between Michigan Ave. and Vernor Hwy. Previously this was just an entrance from Michigan but last year they extended the service drive under the railroad tracks. It's been mostly done for months now; I walked around it and took pictures back in September. |
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2674 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 1:09 pm: | |
quote:Michigan Avenue had business directly on it, whereas I-75 does not. MexicanTown doesn't that much depend on I-75. MexicanTown doesn't depend on I-75? How exactly do you think most of its customers get to the area in the first place? |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 985 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 1:36 pm: | |
Most of the people who are in Mexican Town when I'm there live in the neighborhood. There are a very few restaurants that live on the tourist trade (Xochimilco, for instance) and those might have difficulty. But I can't imagine this will cause much trouble to the hundreds of small businesses that are west of the tourist area. Go to, say, West Vernor and Springwells, and walk around and form your own impression. What I see is local people supporting their neighbors, and very few suburbanites except a few of us intrepid bus riders who like to eat Mexican and Guatemalan (and so on) food. |
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1241 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 1:55 pm: | |
Before I-75 was built, the designated route going south out of downtown was US-25. (Fort St. to Oakwood Blvd. to Dix Hwy. to Toledo Hwy.) This is still a good option. |
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2675 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 2:17 pm: | |
quote:Most of the people who are in Mexican Town when I'm there live in the neighborhood. And you know this how?
quote:Go to, say, West Vernor and Springwells, and walk around and form your own impression. What I see is local people supporting their neighbors, and very few suburbanites... The problem with that is suburbanites look a heck of a lot like folks who live in the area. How can you tell who is a suburbanite and who lives in the neighborhood? The only thing that I can say for certain is that all of the parking is usually full or close to full. Someone has to be driving there. |
Islandman Member Username: Islandman
Post Number: 1279 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 2:26 pm: | |
Fnemecek, They usually have one of 3 things on: A Red wings jersey, a Lions jersey, or a Tigers jersey. Hat wearing may vary. Not hard to figure out if you spend much time in the area. But hey, it's good for the whole, so who really cares. I do love how that part of the city thrives. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6006 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, December 28, 2007 - 4:31 pm: | |
Maybe someone can tell me where all the thousands of trucks each day that cross the Ambassador Bridge are going to be lined up? Will that be "almost deserted" Fort Street? Since I'm not that familiar with that side of town, will the Mexicantown neighborhood be clogged with trucks (that would otherwise be parked for at least a mile along I-75) waiting to go thru the border checks? |
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors
Post Number: 670 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 12:11 am: | |
I may have missed this but what does this mean for the lodge entrance to 75? will everyone just get off at trumbull? What about down river people wanting to come to detroit for any event? It would be interesting if this actually could somehow have a positive impact on mexicantown due to many more people having to drive through on detours off the bridge. I doubt it but it could happen. |
Funaho Member Username: Funaho
Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 6:48 pm: | |
I imagine the Lodge will be able to access WB I-96 (though that too is supposed to close briefly over the summer) and NB I-75, but not SB I-75. So if you wanted to head south yes you'd need to get off at Trumbell or find an alternate route. |
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors
Post Number: 709 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 3:29 pm: | |
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2008 0121/SUB/801210327/1070/-/-/co nstruction-crossfire-businesse s-fear-profits-to-exit-with-i- 75 |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 4901 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 3:38 pm: | |
Geez, what did people do before I-75 went through SW Detroit? The city's population was about twice then what it is now. Are they really as dumb and helpless that some others think? I believe that some of them will miraculously discover that an almost vacant stretch of wide highway parallels I-75. Talk about Chicken Littles! |
Dkdowty Member Username: Dkdowty
Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 10:38 pm: | |
Everyone drives...even those who live near Mexicantown. I grew up on W. Lafayette near West Grand Blvd and we drove to Mexicantown. So it would surprise me if Mexicantown doesn't do fine for awhile without 75. A lot of the officeworkers downtown who go out there can find another way in. But the bulk of businesses down there are local. Suburbanites aren't flocking to Clark Park and Vernor west of Clark Street, and that's where most of the newest development has come. |
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522
Post Number: 320 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:09 am: | |
I thought most businesses bitched that the freeways took away business, since traffic was driving by, not driving through. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 4906 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:33 am: | |
Danto Furniture, featured in the article, caters mostly to Mexicans. Are those Mexicans driving up from Mexico to get to Central and Vernor? If so, that part of I-75 isn't affected--except for losing a lane or two northbound at Dearborn, where the butane-tanker driver fell asleep or whatever. Few Mexicans use I-75 coming from the north to get to SW Detroit to do their shopping. |
Homer Member Username: Homer
Post Number: 256 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 1:33 pm: | |
First, Welcome to the forum DK (douglas) I wonder if those SDBA/Corktown folks in the article just fell off the tortilla truck yesterday. This project has been in the works for several years. Meetings, mailings, postings, etc. Come on Wendler, quit trying to squeeze my tax dollars to finance your advertising. The trip for excellent food in the area restaurants will become a little more of an adventure now, and folks will discover even more delightfull locations to visit and spend time at in The Great South West. Peace |
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine
Post Number: 1930 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 2:12 pm: | |
they've had pamphlets at the honey bee from MDOT outlining the project for months. while i realize vernor is a little confusing at its termenus as it becomes the 75 service drive at michigan, i think only those with closed head injuries will have an overly difficult time navigating themselves to mexicantown |
Sticks Member Username: Sticks
Post Number: 361 Registered: 08-2005
| Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 8:31 am: | |
We have a pretty good street grid outside of those expressways people! It won't kill you to take the surface streets! And if the counties would pay for timing the lights on half of those routes, things would flow a lot smoother. |
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 222 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 11:07 pm: | |
I drove around the construction area on 1/25. There were workers all over the place! I did notice some idiots tagged part of a low wall near a southbound entrance to I-75. If ever we could import "caneing" from Indonesia, dumping garbage, tagging, and stripping scrap metal from buildings would be a thing of the past. On another note, I took a drive down Vernor towards Toledo Ave. ,(an area of Mexicantown I don't visit often). This area has grown a well developed retail district in the past couple of years! I can't wait to see this amount of foot traffic in the CBD and up Woodward. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 4961 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 11:33 pm: | |
Toledo?
quote:On another note, I took a drive down Vernor towards Toledo Ave. ,(an area of Mexicantown I don't visit often). Apparently so--visiting that area often, that is... Toledo and Vernor are generally a block or two apart and are parallel. So driving down Vernor towards Toledo is not possible. |
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2709 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 11:43 pm: | |
quote:Geez, what did people do before I-75 went through SW Detroit? They took street cars. |
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 223 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 12:30 am: | |
Ok, my directions stink in that area. The cross street I was at was Livernois,Livernoisyard. I did find a good restaurant near there though. Thanks for the correction... ;) (Message edited by warrenite84 on January 28, 2008) |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 4964 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 12:38 am: | |
Yes, Livernois and Vernor is by the SE corner of Livernois Yard. Lots of decent restaurants near there, and a few really good ones. I can roll out of bed and probably get to Mi Pueblo before coming to a rest(aurant). |
Genesyxx Member Username: Genesyxx
Post Number: 854 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 10:17 am: | |
I've always wondered why they never factor in fixing the service drives when they do the freeway projects? Its f'n frustrating. |
Funaho Member Username: Funaho
Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 10:34 am: | |
In this case the services drives will be getting redone, largely because they're realigning them slightly. Also the SB service drive is being extended back under the railroad tracks to Michigan Ave. In fact during the construction that is going to be the detour to Mexican Town from I-96. |
Ro_resident Member Username: Ro_resident
Post Number: 292 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 11:07 am: | |
I can think of two reasons why service drives are not fixed at the same time a) The service drives are usually considered unofficial alternative routes during the construction period, and b) the service drives are typically owned by the city or county, therefore not under MDOT jurisdiction. This can be touchy subject because of funding, timing, and coordination issues. Probably not the answer you wanted. |