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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 454
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Received today via Ann Arbor-based Getdowntown.org:

quote:

December 14, 2007


TO: Ann Arbor to Detroit Steering Committee

FROM: Carmine Palombo, Director, Transportation Programs

SUBJECT: Ann Arbor-Detroit Commuter Rail Project: December, 2007 Update


SEMCOG is aggressively moving forward to obtain the detailed rail operation information that will provide us with the capital and operating costs that will be needed to allow passenger and freight trains to safely co-exist with reliable service in the same corridor.

In previous updates, I indicated that the Norfolk Southern is conducting a capacity study of the NS line under contract to SEMCOG. They are well into study at this time and have the existing rail infrastructure and operations coded into the model. They will validate the model by replicating the existing freight and passenger movements in the very near future. Once we are assured that the model can replicate the existing operations, they will be able to run and analyze the various options we have discussed.

In addition to the work being done by the NS, we have also had a preliminary response from the Canadian National (CN) Railroad to our request for their analysis of potential impacts of the project to their operation. We are continuing our dialogue and have asked CN to further refine their analysis to identify additional impacts to their operation. I want to stress to you that the railroads, CN and NS, have been extremely cooperative. I anticipate this work being completed in early 2008.

At the same time, SEMCOG has also entered into an agreement with AMTRAK to conduct a ridership and fare study. This work will identify estimated ridership by station and recommend a fare structure. This information will allow us to estimate operating costs, the amount of the costs that the farebox will cover, and the operating deficit that we must find funding for. This work should also be completed within the same time frame as the work being done by CN and NS.

While these studies are in progress, we continue to work on other necessary pieces of work. We have begun work on an environmental clearance document for the project, continue to narrow down the location of the station to serve Metro Airport and continue to explore existing and new funding options.

As always, please contact me if you have questions at 313/961-4266 or palombo@semcog.org.


Thanks for reading this update. Please let me know if you have any questions or comments.

Sincerely,

Nancy Shore
getDowntown Program
734-214-0100
Nancy Shore
getDowntown Program
Stay up to date on getDowntown: blog.getdowntown.org

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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 3017
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

for you transit buffs out there, what other city is currently the prime example of what we're trying to do with this commuter rail, i.e., run both commuter trains and freight trains on the same tracks?
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 3018
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

for you transit buffs out there, what other city is currently the prime example of what we're trying to do with this commuter rail, i.e., running both commuter trains and freight trains on the same set of tracks?
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1944
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chicago
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Hans57
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Username: Hans57

Post Number: 248
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not sure Jesus, why don't you tell us many times? Is it Albuquerque, is it Boise?
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 3022
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sorry about the triple post...stupid board won't let me delete them for some reason...if a mod sees, please delete the prior two posts and this post

EDIT: I was able to delete one of the three but can't delete either of the remaining two...I get the following error

"The poster of this message is not recorded in the posting log. Therefore you cannot edit or delete this message."

(Message edited by thejesus on December 14, 2007)
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D_mcc
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Username: D_mcc

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know Miami had something similar for a while...Not sure what they do now, but I remember visiting my Grandparents in West Palm, then taking the train back to the Miami Airport.

http://www.tri-rail.com/
- Link to Miami-Dade Commuter Line
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 1038
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toronto.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 470
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Portland, Or
http://trimet.org/
cleveland
http://www.gcrta.org/
st louis
http://www.metrostlouis.org/

just the ones I know about, believe it or not, the cleveland system is pretty good ... st louis is a freak show and portland's is a dream ... they serve latte's right on board
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 455
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any thoughts on where the Metro Airport station may go? The NS line runs along Michigan Ave about 2 miles north of the airport. My guess would be in downtown Wayne, with connector buses making the trip back and forth from the airport. This would link downtown Wayne with Detroit and Ann Arbor and maybe spark some interest in sprucing up Wayne's downtown. It'd also be close to the Ford Truck plant opening up the line for use by plant workers.

However SEMCOG might settle for something a bit closer and with enough space to build a big parking lot and station, like at Michigan Ave. and Merriman where there is even a vacant lot.

It'd be nice to see them link it up to the elevated tram that runs in the Smith terminal somehow. Anyone got about $400 million laying around?

Satellite images for reference:

Downtown Wayne at Wayne Rd. Following the line east and west, it's a bit tight, but I'm sure one of the warehouse lots along the line could be converted into parking/station:
http://tinyurl.com/yt99m7

Michigan/Merriman:
http://tinyurl.com/yw6v7x
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1689
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The gold standard for dedicated rail passenger service in the United States is the Northeast Corridor, all dedicated trackage, with four tracks, two local, two express.

When I was in Albuquerque, their Rail Runner trains seemed to run regularly and looked pretty sharp too.
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Hans57
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Username: Hans57

Post Number: 249
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just realized there could be a stop at Greenfield Village, wonderful.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 1534
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

for you transit buffs out there, what other city is currently the prime example of what we're trying to do with this commuter rail, i.e., running both commuter trains and freight trains on the same set of tracks?


With commuter rail, this is quite common. As some have mentioned, Chicago is a prime example.
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Parkguy
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Username: Parkguy

Post Number: 171
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Downtown Wayne has a parking structure a block and a half north of the track at Wayne Road already, so that's a plus. Merriman road might have room for some enhanced parking south of the tracks-- I don't remember if the old Eloise Hospital farm has been totally "developed." I know the south end of the old farm closer to Van Born is a mobile home park. Merriman would be a logical spot in terms of direct route to the airport. Middlebelt in Inkster might also work, and there is plenty of room for a parking lot or structure. Maybe Henry Ruff Rd, as well. The east end of the old Eloise Hospital property is already county land, I think.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1614
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Didn't Wayne County (or maybe it was the state) buy land with the intention of it being used for the future transit site at Merriman and Michigan Ave?

(Message edited by bob on December 14, 2007)
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Tayshaun22
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Username: Tayshaun22

Post Number: 386
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice area there Parkguy. Henry Ruff, Inkster, Middlebelt.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2143
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even Philadelphia's train system shares its tracks with freight. SEPTA however does use rather ‘heavy’ railcars more akin to an Amtrak passenger car than light rail. Here in Charlotte, the light rail line (that just opened a month ago), has its tracks paralleling a freight rail line right-of-way, but does not share its tracks. The light rail bridges over the freight rails in a few places.
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Queensfinest
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Username: Queensfinest

Post Number: 136
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.businessweek.com/gl obalbiz/content/dec2007/gb2007 125_600001.htm

Maybe this should be the start of a new thread, but the above link for the article "Subways: The New Urban Status Symbol" offers some interesting info on a few new subway construction projects around the world.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 3830
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What do light rail and subways have to do with implementing commuter rail between Detroit and Ann Arbor?
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Parkguy
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Username: Parkguy

Post Number: 172
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tayshaun22 said:
"Nice area there Parkguy. Henry Ruff, Inkster, Middlebelt."

Yup. True.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2147
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point Danindc. There is a huge difference between light rail and commuter rail. Chances are that Detroit's commuter rail would not have too many stops along the route, would have heavier cars, and also have park & ride stops.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 3024
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Chances are that Detroit's commuter rail would not have too many stops along the route"

I don't know what you consider to be "many" stops, but just off the top of my head, once this thing really gets going, likely stops would be:

Pontiac
Troy/Birmingham
Royal Oak
Ferndale
Detroit
Dearborn
Metro Airport
Wayne
Ypsilanti
Ann Arbor

I'd say that's a pretty good number of stops for one region
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 457
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thejesus, the line will end in Detroit, it won't go all the way to Pontiac until many years from now. Like stops would be Ann Arbor, Ypsi, Wayne, Metro, Dearborn/Greenfield Village, and Detroit.
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 458
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those out there unacquainted with the concept of Commuter Rail, it differs greatly from inter-city light rail and subway transport. Commuter rail can be considered somewhere between Amtrak long-distance passenger routes and short-distance light rail. It will use the same train cars as Amtrak passenger rail (i.e. Heavy Rail) and run regularly along a few stops in the I-94 metro corridor, probably every 25 minutes to an hour, maybe even longer, but more regularly than the twice-a-day Amtrak Wolverine service that runs along the same line.

It's considered the first step at implementing a region-wide transit system, and for sparking interest in inter- and intra-city rapid transit services like light rail, BRT, etc.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 3027
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Thejesus, the line will end in Detroit, it won't go all the way to Pontiac until many years from now"

I agree that's a good possibility, hence my statement "once this thing really gets going"

Though considering the pro-transit commentary we've heard recently from Troy, Birmingham, L. Brooks Patterson, Royal Oak, etc., I think the commuter rail servicing Oakland County might not be as far away as you think...

(Message edited by thejesus on December 15, 2007)
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 459
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 6:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you're right Thejesus, once L Brooks sees this line in place and the ridership steadily increasing, he'll feel like a jackass for not jumping on the bandwagon sooner and demand for its extension to Pontiac to help the OCers. Then he'll blame Detroit for not offering it in the first place...

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