 
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11033
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 11:46 am: |    |
quote:3. White-on-black racism again, due largely as a result of reverse racism or race hustling.Whites are mad that blacks can overtly say racist things and in the white folks view, aren't as heavily scrutinized as when they say something anti-black. When they feel there is a double-standard, they feel like the pendulum is now swinging too far the other way and "black power" really means "taking over", and the less-educated whites feel they need to protect their race.
Funniest and saddest thing I have read in a while. So white on black racism is due to whites being victimized or getting treated unfairly. |
Crumbled_pavement
Member
Username: Crumbled_pavement
Post Number: 67
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 3:29 pm: | |
I see two major problems in this thread.
A) Most people do not like to admit their group can do anything considered wrong
2) Most people think every problem has a single cause, therefore a single solution
Both of these are incorrect. Here's what needs to happen
1) White people need to accept that they control the overwhelming majority of wealth, political power, and the media and they are indeed biased and need to change
B) Black people need to accept that all of our problems are not due to racism. In fact we might be much further along in the game if we didn't only battle racism, but also battled other internal issues.
However, given that man is not good at digesting multiple causes, we will continue to search for a single solution to all the world's problems. |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 317
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 7:39 pm: | |
JT1
Please explain, then, what white people are expected to think when Louis Farrakhan says "White people are potential human beings. They haven't fully evolved yet."
Then, there was the famous incident in the early 90's with Sista Souljah, saying instead of Blacks killing blacks,they should be killing white people.
Am I condoning racism? Absolutely not. But publicly making remarks like that is going to create new racial hostility. White people are told they aren't human beings? That blacks should quit killing each other and kill whites instead?
Oh yeah, and the black lady that said to a group of us in an employee break room "I told my son if he comes home with a white girl, DONT come home at all."
Or Lonnie Bates calling the cameraman "white boy" (a term that had nothing to do with anything taking place)
Do you honestly believe that when people say such things, it doesn't fuel any racism in ANYone?
Sorry, but I think as long as stuff like this is heard by white's, racists will likely continue being created. |
Crumbled_pavement
Member
Username: Crumbled_pavement
Post Number: 68
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 8:22 pm: | |
Hpgrmln said: "Oh yeah, and the black lady that said to a group of us in an employee break room 'I told my son if he comes home with a white girl, DONT come home at all.'"
I'm glad you mentioned this because I know a lot of white women who have told me that this is exactly what their fathers told them, "don't come home with a black man." So, uhhhh, is that fueling racism as well? Not to mention the KKK, skinheads, Neo-Nazis, various militias, etc, who say that there can be no peace on earth until everyone is blond hair and blue eyes. All racial groups perpetrate racism of some sort but few of any of these groups is man or woman enough to admit it and deal with it. |
Greatlakes
Member
Username: Greatlakes
Post Number: 95
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 8:37 pm: | |
"Almost everyone can read (I think)"
Actually, 47% of Detroiters are functionally illiterate.[link] |
Jerrytimes
Member
Username: Jerrytimes
Post Number: 82
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 11:39 pm: | |
Wow. I can't believe that everyone here is arguing about this. There will always be white racists, and there will even be more blacks that are racist. SURPRISE!•• I just wish that black people would stop blaming white people for their troubles. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11037
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 1:39 am: | |
Hpgrmln - You point out a few examples of idiotic black people and use that as an excuse for white racism. I hate to break it to you but you are trying to excuse the racism in the white community and even worse trying to give it justification based upon what a few idiots say. To imply that white racists actions and thoughts are justified based upon a few stupid quotes if so mind numbingly stupid it is barely worth responding to.
quote:There will always be white racists, and there will even be more blacks that are racist. SURPRISE!•• I just wish that black people would stop blaming white people for their troubles.
More idiocy.
More black racists than white? Too stupid to acknowledge.
quote: I just wish that black people would stop blaming white people for their troubles.
Painting with a braod brush are we? Who are these blacks you speak of? I just wish ignorant people like yourself could actually think about the historical injustices and the current inequaties taht exist. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11038
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 2:00 am: | |
PS - I think that Farakhan and Soulja are racist.
That still gives no credence to your ridiculous theory. |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 318
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 8:27 am: | |
"I'm glad you mentioned this because I know a lot of white women who have told me that this is exactly what their fathers told them, "don't come home with a black man." So, uhhhh, is that fueling racism as well?"
I believe so. I completely believe this individual had a racist side BECAUSE of the racism they witnessed directed toward the black community. You essentially made my point.
Black women were the target of racism in this instance. The injustice hurt and haunts them. Eventually, they develop the same mindset but with the roles reversed...mostly because the offender has had such a negative emotional effect on them.
White folks sense the distrust, and a number may perceive it to be racism directed at them just because of their complexion. Chalk it up to a bad experience, and they may decide to take a racist viewpoint based on the effects created by their own race. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11039
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 11:00 am: | |
quote:White folks sense the distrust, and a number may perceive it to be racism directed at them just because of their complexion. Chalk it up to a bad experience, and they may decide to take a racist viewpoint based on the effects created by their own race.
And the wonderful logic just keeps on rolling. You seem to be implying that white people that are racist are so due to the actions of blacks. WHat wonderful logic. |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 339
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 11:14 am: | |
Crumbled-
Post #67 tells it like it really is and is succinct and to the point.
Thanks. |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 319
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 7:30 pm: | |
No.
It's that todays generation is tired of hearing about the sins of whites dating back centuries.Some are getting mad at hearing about how bad they are over and over again and feel that THIS is also a form of discrimination. Not all white people are bad, but many feel as if this is the message being sent.
There aren't many leaders in the black community that are well-known to the white community, that are still alive.White America primarily recognizes the aforementioned Farrakhan, and the Rev.s Jackson and Sharpton.Huge numbers of white folks believe these individuals are inflammatory bigots. Like it or not, this is who represents Black America to much of the white community. Do you honestly not believe that some folks won't become racist themselves after hearing these guys and presuming that this is the voice of mainstream black america?
The community-and the media- need to do a better job of exposing to mainstream white audiences black leaders or civil rights leaders that are not so polarizing. |
Crumbled_pavement
Member
Username: Crumbled_pavement
Post Number: 70
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 7:44 am: | |
Hpgrmln said: "No.
It's that todays generation is tired of hearing about the sins of whites dating back centuries.Some are getting mad at hearing about how bad they are over and over again and feel that THIS is also a form of discrimination. Not all white people are bad, but many feel as if this is the message being sent.
There aren't many leaders in the black community that are well-known to the white community, that are still alive.White America primarily recognizes the aforementioned Farrakhan, and the Rev.s Jackson and Sharpton.Huge numbers of white folks believe these individuals are inflammatory bigots. Like it or not, this is who represents Black America to much of the white community. Do you honestly not believe that some folks won't become racist themselves after hearing these guys and presuming that this is the voice of mainstream black america?
The community-and the media- need to do a better job of exposing to mainstream white audiences black leaders or civil rights leaders that are not so polarizing."
So you mean to tell me all the times white people have said something racist to me is simply because of Al Sharpton? Wow! Well, thanks for the news. The next time someone white says something racist to me I'll be sure to apologize to them for them having to endure listening to Jesse Jackson. |
Kevgoblu
Member
Username: Kevgoblu
Post Number: 38
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:51 pm: | |
Hpgrmln said: "No.
It's that todays generation is tired of hearing about the sins of whites dating back centuries. Some are getting mad at hearing about how bad they are over and over again and feel that THIS is also a form of discrimination. Not all white people are bad, but many feel as if this is the message being sent.
No, not all white people are bad. But the sins dating back centuries continue to provide whites with never-ending advantages in just about every facet of life. Wealth, stable communities, superior educational opportunities, job opportunities, etc. Even though they may not have done anything themselves, many if not most white people happily turn a blind eye to the preferential treatment that they receive. I guess its to be expected though. If this phenomenon was universally aknowledged it would conflict with the "American Dream" theory that most hold so tightly to. It would imply that individuals' successes were not necessarily a direct result of their level of effort and hard work. |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 321
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 8:05 am: | |
Ok, I tried. I've talked race with whites and blacks. This is the worst discussion I've ever seen.
Usually I come away educated. All I'm seeing here is defensiveness and people blowing off someone who says something they don't like.
The racial divide isn't going to get smaller so long as all anyone can do is get defensive. I WANT blacks who either are racist or at least distrustful of whites to tell me flat out why. It's called dialogue.
"The next time someone white says something racist to me I'll be sure to apologize to them for them having to endure listening to Jesse Jackson."
No. Try figuring out-even try ASKING-why they feel that way. Once you find out, analyze it, see if maybe theres misinterpretations going on. Find a way to fix it.
When I say that most whites only recognize contreversial and often-polarizing leaders in the black community, you SHOULD quit getting all defensive and stop and think, maybe the wrong message is being sent. Most whites only recognize leaders that send divisive messages and are often mired in controversy. You can't just get all defensive and think that will change peoples perception, just like that. I've heard very interesting perspectives from blacks, but its because I shut up, let them talk, and pondered the real views of real black folks.
Now, find out what people are thinking and why. Don't go on a tangent. Just think about it and figure out how to fix the roadblock.
I'm done. You guys don't want to listen to some points that ought to be a topic of debate without just blowing it off and immediatly disagreeing. But if youre serious about stopping racism, first find out the real reasons/beliefs its still out there and accept that those will eventually need to be honestly debated. |
Jerrytimes
Member
Username: Jerrytimes
Post Number: 84
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 9:10 am: | |
Hey JT1. You must not watch the news. Any little thing that happens in the world involving a white person and a black person, the white person is instantly racist.
Yes, I do believe that a higher percentage of black people are racist than whites are. Do you not think that as a society blacks dislike white people? Whites are blamed for everything bad that has happened to african americans. |
Missmich
Member
Username: Missmich
Post Number: 23
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 9:19 am: | |
Amen Jerry.....look here at this dumb letter that was written to PlanetFeedback, seems if you get poor treatment in a store, its a matter for the NAACP! What a joke!
http://www.planetfeedback.com/ index.php?level2=blog_viewpost &topic_id=305001 |
Jerrytimes
Member
Username: Jerrytimes
Post Number: 85
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 9:49 am: | |
I just wish white people would start sticking up for themselves. |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1650
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 10:00 am: | |
Race may not be the issue here. Some of these jewelry stores will sell an unsuspecting consumer
a flawed piece of jewelry that looks perfectly fine to the naked eye. Under a loop a skilled eye can
see these flaws that really don't make a BIG difference, but decreases the value of the item. The ring
in question was probably a nice looking piece of jewelry but if the customer isn't satisfied then they
should be able to get a full refund.
If race IS the issue then by all means contact the authorities with a complaint. It may not do you any
good but at least it will be documented. That store may have a history of selling the flawed pieces of jewelry
to customers who may not be so saavy in the purchase of an expensive piece of jewelry. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11046
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 10:12 am: | |
quote:I WANT blacks who either are racist or at least distrustful of whites to tell me flat out why. It's called dialogue.
Given your ridiculous posts on this thread why would you expect people to discuss the topic with you. You have essentially justitifed white racism and blamed it on blacks.
quote:When I say that most whites only recognize contreversial and often-polarizing leaders in the black community, you SHOULD quit getting all defensive and stop and think, maybe the wrong message is being sent. Most whites only recognize leaders that send divisive messages and are often mired in controversy.
The issue that lies here that you are missing is that whites or popular media only seem to identify the controversial black leaders as those speaking on behalf of all blacks. That in itself is insulting. The assumption that 2-3 fools speak for the entire black race is a major issue but the people that believe that to be the case need to examine why they blindly believe that these few people are speaking for all blacks and more importantly why do they just assume that all blacks think alike (Big problem with many in the white community)
quote:But if youre serious about stopping racism, first find out the real reasons/beliefs its still out there and accept that those will eventually need to be honestly debated.
Honestly debated is one thing. Starting a claim with ridiculous claims certainly is not the way to start an open dialogue. Justifying racism by whites due to actions of blacks is not a good starting point.
quote:Hey JT1. You must not watch the news. Any little thing that happens in the world involving a white person and a black person, the white person is instantly racist.
Please list all of these scenarios. I'm sure that you have millions and millions of situations, not just a few antecdotes.
More whining from the poor victimized white people.
quote:Yes, I do believe that a higher percentage of black people are racist than whites are.
Now tell me how many black people you really know. Not sound bites from TV but people you really know. |
Jerrytimes
Member
Username: Jerrytimes
Post Number: 86
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 10:15 am: | |
While reading this story, all I was thinking to myself was, one, what does this have to do with race, and two was that I found it convienient that the story was being told by one side (the mothers side) by someone that was not even present while the 'incident' happened. For all we know, the woman may have been unruly, and the sales associate may have not been at all willing to help someone like this, then again, maybe not. Also notice in the story, the womans daughter never mentioned that there were any racist comments made, and that there wasn't any mention that a white person came in and while having the same issue with jewelry, received immidiate help. Looks to me like someone is looking for a lawsuit where one isn't deserved.
Another thing I find funny. She buys a diamond ring from a store, they say the diamond is of quality and it has been observed twice by associates. She takes the ring to a competitor (who may tell her it's a bad ring just so she won't shop at the other store and possible shop at theirs) and she instantly believes what they say.
Again, where does race come in here? Bad store management for not taking care of the ring and possibly a sales associate that isn't good with situations like this, sure. But again, nothing in this story had anything to do with race until the woman went to the NAACP and the Urban League.
(Message edited by jerrytimes on December 18, 2007) |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11048
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 10:53 am: | |
quote:Amen Jerry.....look here at this dumb letter that was written to PlanetFeedback, seems if you get poor treatment in a store, its a matter for the NAACP! What a joke!
The case is probably bogus but does this make all claims suspect? There is the problem. People like Cleo and jerrytimes will use this case and presume it to be the norm, not the exception. They will then use their suspect logic to use this case to justify why racism is not really an issue and ignore the real inequities and injustices that exist.
Using the occasional story as justification to ignore the many valid ones shows a major flaw with your logic in this situation. |
Missmich
Member
Username: Missmich
Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 12:15 pm: | |
oh please. Its a perfect example of people playing the *race card* when things dont go their way. Black people should be angry at this because as a whole, it makes them look very bad...and I bet money, and know first hand, this isnt an isolated case, nor is it something that happens *occasionally*. I know plenty of black people that play the card to their advantage, just to get free things, start law suits, you name it. Just because YOU dont know anyone like this doesnt mean they arent out there.
Funny, when a white person gets bad service, they complain about it and dont go back...when a black person gets bad service, they bring race into it. Thats what you are told to do by your so called *leaders* ITs old, grow up and move on |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11054
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 12:22 pm: | |
quote:and I bet money, and know first hand, this isnt an isolated case, nor is it something that happens *occasionally*. I know plenty of black people that play the card to their advantage, just to get free things, start law suits, you name it. Just because YOU dont know anyone like this doesnt mean they arent out there.
And you use this to dismiss the racist actions of whites? I honestly have a hard time believing that you really know more than 1-2 black people given your ignorant generalizations.
quote:Funny, when a white person gets bad service, they complain about it and dont go back...when a black person gets bad service, they bring race into it. Thats what you are told to do by your so called *leaders* ITs old, grow up and move on
More ignorant stereotyping.
And for the millionth time: I am white.
And for the thousandth time: The 'leaders' that you speak of do not speak for the entire black population.
It is abundantly clear you are uneducated and racist. You really don't need to keep making this point more obvious. |
Sciencefair
Member
Username: Sciencefair
Post Number: 34
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 12:32 pm: | |
Why is everyone so uptight about race? After 100+ posts on this thread, what has been accomplished? People are people, good and bad, black and white and whatever way you want to classify them. Who cares? |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 361
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 1:12 pm: | |
Jt1-
I have refrained from commenting here but after reading this mantra of yours for the millionth time (read:AD NAUSEAM), I must say that the angry way that you come across in regard to your defense of the black race is somewhat disturbing. Many white people actually agree with you, but you never, ever give thought to what those people are trying to say, you just blast away.
I would also suppose that many blacks dis-agree with your vehement attitude as well, they just refrain from calling you the race baiter that you are. I, however, am not afraid to discuss your tiring rantings, and I would go further by saying that you are really exacerbating the situation even more than you realize.
I seem to remember you actually contributing to the SW Detroit gang thread a while ago back, and we had great candor then. I thought you were going to make a difference at that point.
Instead of furthering the divide, please provide details as to what you are personally doing to bridge it, or just stop wasting Lowell's bandwith here and be a bit more constructive.
Nobody is calling your kid ugly here so lighten up, eh? |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11059
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 1:31 pm: | |
Res - I am all for a fair dialogue but I have issues addressing attitudes that essentially blame blacks for racist whites.
My point may come across and angry but the initial points and comments are what brought it out. I appreciate your feedback but I am curious why you aren't calling out people like Cleo or jerrytimes whose claims are beyond ridiculous.
What can I say, stupidity brings out the fight in me.
I will address your comment point by point:
quote: I must say that the angry way that you come across in regard to your defense of the black race is somewhat disturbing
Do you find it more or less disturbing than claims that blacks bring it on themselves and other comments along those lines? Do you find it more or less disturbing than people constantly claiming that fools like Sharpton are speaking for all blacks (since so many like to assume that the black population consists of one major group think)?
quote:Many white people actually agree with you, but you never, ever give thought to what those people are trying to say, you just blast away.
I am open for discussion but some of the claims on these boards are so outlandish that they can't be addressed in a tepid manner. I have noticed that you let those go untouched. Why is that?
quote:I would also suppose that many blacks dis-agree with your vehement attitude as well, they just refrain from calling you the race baiter that you are.
I would assume that many blacks and whites disagree with me. that's what happens when people think as individuals. If only some people (not you) could grasp that there is not one communnal thought process for an entire population. Of course that is applied to blacks much more than whites. Why is that?
quote:I, however, am not afraid to discuss your tiring rantings, and I would go further by saying that you are really exacerbating the situation even more than you realize.
It is an open forum so discuss all you want. I will happily discuss with you. How exactly am I exacerbating the situation? Will Cleo be less of a racist if I tone it down?
quote:I seem to remember you actually contributing to the SW Detroit gang thread a while ago back, and we had great candor then. I thought you were going to make a difference at that point.
Thanks. I have my good moments. Sadly, I don't recall the thread.
quote:Instead of furthering the divide, please provide details as to what you are personally doing to bridge it, or just stop wasting Lowell's bandwith here and be a bit more constructive.
What details would you like? Again, call me out all you want but I notice that you have no issues with so much racist ranting taking up Lowell's bandwidth.
quote:Nobody is calling your kid ugly here so lighten up, eh?
My apologies if I get worked up when there are claims as ridiculous as 'white people are racist because of what black people do' or 'black people need to quit whining and deal with it' or 'All black people blindly follow and support Farakhan and Sharpton' |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11061
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 1:43 pm: | |
Plymouth - Feel free to address some of these gems:
Cleo:
quote:Historically, Black people are whiners, who cling to the past and use every excuse they can come up with to hold a march or a protest. We have also learned that we were assholes in the taking of this country from the Indians
quote:while Black people stay stagnant, while J Jackson and retard Sharpton rally Blacks against the stupidest things, all to keep the old *whites keep blacks down* concept alvie...casue without that they have nothing.
quote:oh please. Its a perfect example of people playing the *race card* when things dont go their way. Black people should be angry at this because as a whole, it makes them look very bad...and I bet money, and know first hand, this isnt an isolated case, nor is it something that happens *occasionally*. I know plenty of black people that play the card to their advantage, just to get free things, start law suits, you name it. Just because YOU dont know anyone like this doesnt mean they arent out there.
Funny, when a white person gets bad service, they complain about it and dont go back...when a black person gets bad service, they bring race into it. Thats what you are told to do by your so called *leaders* ITs old, grow up and move on
Hpgrmln:
quote:3. White-on-black racism again, due largely as a result of reverse racism or race hustling.
jerrytimes:
quote:There will always be white racists, and there will even be more blacks that are racist. SURPRISE!•• I just wish that black people would stop blaming white people for their troubles.
quote:Any little thing that happens in the world involving a white person and a black person, the white person is instantly racist.
Yes, I do believe that a higher percentage of black people are racist than whites are. Do you not think that as a society blacks dislike white people? Whites are blamed for everything bad that has happened to african americans.
HP makes some valid points but I still take major exception with the fact that he is jsutifying racist whites and tends to downplay the inequalities that still exist for minorities today. |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 364
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 2:54 pm: | |
Jt1-
Much, much better, less angry and a more focused argument and rebuttal. I won't go point by point here, but I will try to cover all of your rebuttals in a concise manner.
MissCleo, MichiganSnowflake(since banned) and the others that come here to spew their hate do not deserve the courtesy of a response, so I don't bother. It just adds a place for them to incite more riots, and you accomplish what they are after, which is satisfying the hunger of the troll. Sometimes silence or lack of response speak in volumes that words cannot. Sometimes words do not adequately express our horror with this abhorrent society.
By the way, I am INCREASINGLY disturbed by all of us and the slipping of our ideals in this city, as I do not see the rigid racial division as much in the other cities that I do here.
As for Sharpton, Farakhan and Jesse representing black society, I believe that they try but their own agenda shines through their rhetoric and I believe even blacks don't buy the "they represent us" attitude, at least the ones I deal with on a daily basis.The blacks that I know even admit MLK had his short comings, just as JFK had on "our" side. No one is perfect.
By the way, they don't go untouched by me, just not recognized as relevant. I learned a long time ago not to argue with the idiots.
I don't know why blacks are singled out more than whites, but I do know that blacks are the minority in this country, so maybe that has something to do with it? I certainly know that the US news media only plays to the sensational, though and not the successful. Ben Carson and Alexia Canaday show that hard work, not complaining accomplish much, much more. As positive role models of black society, why aren't they mentioned more often as positive examples of success? I doubt that some here even know who they are.
I disagree with you too, sometimes, but we seem to get by just fine. After all, I am DISCUSSING this with you aren't I? The rest go untouched because they add no relevancy to the conversation.
You are exacerbating by baiting so to speak for the blacks. I thought that Kapansolo, and the rest of the blacks spoke very, very well for themselves so why don't you just let them continue without your input as a white man. Your replies, to me, sound like you are trying to be the "Great White Hope" and nobody, even black folks, appreciate that candor. Just make your point, sans the accusations of stupidity and you would be much better heard in my opinion. Again, nobody takes Cleo as seriously as you.
The thread was not the SW gang thread, rather it was the "Detroit looks like a bombed out Beiruit", "Hate groups in the D" and other similar threads where you were less angry,made more cognisant points that were far more relevant and clearer, and a lot was accomplished in the candor there I thought. Sorry for the mistaken reference.
I didn't mean to call you out on anything, but I was asking what you have personally contributed to the great racial divide in this city to abate, further, the problems that exist and bring us all closer to a mutual understanding and respect for each other. Perhaps some volunteer work with black youth, mentoring, cleaning up the city, or any of the multitude of things that we whites can do to tear down the racial barriers? Perhaps establishing a track record with those types of organizations will make your points a bit more tangible. I do have issues with wasted bandwith, as Lowell provides a platform here for candor, not name calling.
Finally, you are certainly forgiven by me, but I am not the only one that comes to this forum for the candor and education provided here. I feel strongly that this site will, eventually be a contributor to healing the races, and Lowell has done much to provide us a vehicle by which we can express ourselves and learn. Many people would slam him (and do, that's for sure!), but we need more, not less, rational, non-angry confrontational places like this to speak so that perhaps we can, at the very least, agree to disagree and try to move forward rather than stay anchored in this abysmal world.
Thanks again for the rational response. I look forward to seeing more on that note from you. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11063
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 3:30 pm: | |
quote:MissCleo, MichiganSnowflake(since banned) and the others that come here to spew their hate do not deserve the courtesy of a response, so I don't bother. It just adds a place for them to incite more riots, and you accomplish what they are after, which is satisfying the hunger of the troll. Sometimes silence or lack of response speak in volumes that words cannot. Sometimes words do not adequately express our horror with this abhorrent society.
Certainly a good point and one I should consider.
quote:Thanks again for the rational response. I look forward to seeing more on that note from you.
quote:Your replies, to me, sound like you are trying to be the "Great White Hope" and nobody, even black folks, appreciate that candor.
Not my intent my any means. My issue and my tone in many of these conversations stems from the act that I am disgusted at many, many people inmy race and the lack of notice given to the inequalities that still exist.
quote:Perhaps some volunteer work with black youth, mentoring, cleaning up the city, or any of the multitude of things that we whites can do to tear down the racial barriers?
I am involved with a lot of those activities. Maybe that is where my issue lies. I don't see the level of hatred towards whites or the blame game that a fair number of people here claim.
quote:Many people would slam him (and do, that's for sure!), but we need more, not less, rational, non-angry confrontational places like this to speak so that perhaps we can, at the very least, agree to disagree and try to move forward rather than stay anchored in this abysmal world.
Faie enough but I make no promises that I can take some of the comments with a grain of salt.
My issue is that so many here seem to speak based upon what they read in the paper, hear from friends, etc. If some people would actually get out and interact with others the ridiculous stereotypes wouldn't persist. So when someone makes an idiotic statement it might need to be point out to them. |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 365
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 3:34 pm: | |
Jt1-
I am exhausted trying to keep up with your posts!
Again, I can't go toe to toe, but:
You should give Hpgrmln and jerrytimes a bit of a chance to totally express themselves. They are not the most prolific posters, and as you stated, they have their own opinion and should be heard in their entirety. Lets wait a bit to see what they contribute before we pull the trigger, huh?
Again, Cleo is gone( and rightfully so, she was an overt racist and stated so in no uncertain terms) so lets move away from her rhetoric and on to those who can be meaningful contributors, okay? |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11064
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 3:40 pm: | |
Hpgrmln has made some fair points and I jumped a little quick. I get the point he is making but strongly, strongly disagree with it.
Jerrytimes appears best ignored. I think that his posts 82 and 84 speak enough about him.
Cleo is back as MissMich. You are correct, she should be ignored.
My posts are a bit quick today since I am on the road for business and stuck at an airport. |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 366
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 4:01 pm: | |
Awesome, thought provoking responses and I am with you on the ignorance issue. Perhaps it is my age and the fact that I've been dealing with this stuff for so long that lets me cut the other posters some slack.
Cleo is going to explode all by herself and will expose herself for what she is-a white hate monger who does not represent anyone but herself.
Let it go and focus on YOUR contribution.
One bit of advice? Try to be more encouraging and enlightening and less vehement. Stay rational and less angry and you will be heard much more loudly. I would hate to think your point would be lost in your anger with ignorance. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11066
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 4:12 pm: | |
Very fair input. I appreciate it and will hopefully keep it in mind for future threads. |
Rasputin
Member
Username: Rasputin
Post Number: 3800
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 6:55 am: | |
http://www.detroitiscrap.com
Read it and watch your back! Overt racism is a European historical tradition, just like Grand Larceny!!
Black-atcha .... |
Missmich
Member
Username: Missmich
Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 7:57 am: | |
lol, I am not going to explode. Its funny how you discount MY experiences and MY points of view formed from MY own experiences. Just because I dont see things from your point of view, I am a *racist* and other names you choose to call me. Whatever. lol |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 372
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 10:34 am: | |
Missmich-
Thanks for admitting that you are Cleo, and thanks for confirming that you can't read very well either. I never said that Missmich was going to explode, only Cleo, so my conclusion is that you are her.
That being the case, she openly admitted to being a racist right here on this very forum, in front of God and everyone. Then she was banned for her vitriolic spewage and apparently is now back as Missmich. Presuming that you are Cleo, and your stink has not worn off yet, you will certainly explode, just as before. If you need proof of what Cleo said, ask Pam as she so eloquently quoted it in a recent post.
If you are not Cleo, then I would give you the same chance that I give Hp and Jerrytimes in my post #365 due to the fact that you only have 25 posts and I don't believe that what you have said in any of those posts here is any reason to judge you a racist. Your input here, in am sure, will prove that out soon enough, though.
In that vein, I do agree with some of what you have said here and I also believe that my experience in this world (albeit ony for 48 years!)tells me that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and there is a lot of squeaking going on!The folks that I know (both black and white) that want to change things don't squeak, just work hard at trying to present a good argument so that we can ultimately break down the barriers of ignorance rather than perpetuate the building of the walls that separate us. Just because I don't go around fanning the flames doesn't mean that I haven't witnessed examples of it on BOTH sides and from BOTH points of view. I just prefer to keep my observations to myself, and only jumped in (as I said in my first post) when JT1 started to get off track and made his side of the comments a bit personal. He has since acquiesced and has taken a slightly different track, much to his credit. At least he admitted that, so I am giving credit where credit is due.
Again I implore you to READ ALL of what I post before you start saying stuff that is just not true about me. As a matter of fact, since you don't know anything about me or where I've been, who the hell are you to judge me?
Done. |
Arrogancy
Member
Username: Arrogancy
Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 11:30 am: | |
The difference between white and black racism is that one race is in "power," one is not.
A black person, even in a majority black city, will run into 90% more instances in which a white person will have an effect over his well-being than vice versa (not talking about violence here). There are situations in which white people live in pockets of black communities and get the reverse, but for the most part, since most business owners, etc. are not black, white racism has more effect on black people than the reverse.
Therefore, a black person seeing a white person openly racist reminds them that someone who interviews them for a job or takes their housing application or the father of the woman they are dating or something might be racist and therefore have a detrimental effect on their life. A white person seeing a racist black person just says "some of them don't like me."
That's why they're given different weights; it's just the difference between those in power and those not. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5380
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 12:09 pm: | |
Exactly.... |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1689
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 12:43 pm: | |
Talking with a guy on the bus this came up:
His example was if a black person went into what is considered a white restaurant he would not receive great service,
but if a white person went into what is considered a black restaurant they would be treated fairly.
Do blacks accept whites in their communities more friendlier than whites would accept blacks? |
Melody
Member
Username: Melody
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 1:29 pm: | |
"Do blacks accept whites in their communities more friendlier than whites would accept blacks?"
In my experience, no. Of course, I'm white. I think you could easily say that sometimes whites go out of their way to be nice to black customers in white communities, and sometimes whites are overlooked as far as customer service in black communities.
Kind of related, and kind of funny (not racist)...whenever my white friends and I go to the Ihop on Jefferson we are sat in the "white section." We call it the white section because there are photos of mostly black entertainers (Motown stars, R&B singers, etc) all over the walls in the Ihop. But in this one little corner in another room there are photos of Ted Nugent and Bob Segar, etc.. We always get sat there, and there is usually no one else in that area, even if the rest of the place is busy. Like I said, not racist, but funny. I wonder if it's intentional. |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1691
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 1:32 pm: | |
I guess it's part of your transition into 'blackness' with a little black history.  |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 373
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 2:08 pm: | |
Okay, I really didn't want to go to this depth about my experiences with racism, but in order to explain myself better I will offer a few examples of racism that I have experienced, being white, so that you can better understand where I come from. I would certainly not draw a blanket conclusion from just these few incidents either, as I have also experienced very good relations with the black friends that I have had in the black community and would not let the ignorance of the "few" rule the overall good of the majority.
I have experienced black on white racism a number of times in my life. I commented about the Stevie Wonder concert at Hart Plaza a few years back in a previous thread, and our "reception" by the black folks around me who asked "...what are ya'll doing down here?..." as though Stevie Wonder was owned solely by black society and that we, as whites, could never appreciate the beauty and integrity of his music. My wife, myself and our best friend, who is married to an awesome black gal, were the only white faces to be seen amongst a sea of blacks. I didn't have a problem being there, but, from the questions that ensued after the first question was asked, I confirmed my suspicion that when supported in numbers, blacks could be just as racist as whites.
I was thankful that the concert started as the real conversation among us was just starting to get a bit heated, and once Stevie started singing, the rest was history.
It was during this concert that I witnessed the Detroit Police Department practice the most blatant racism that I have ever witnessed by beating a black man half to death right in front of me for simply having the audacity to dance in a drunken fashion in front of a female officer. It is a day that I will never forget from both perspectives. Talk about a juxtaposition of events. Wow.
Second incident of blatant black racism is when I worked for EMS in the late 70' early 80's, rolled on a accident that occurred at the Lodge and I-75, where a group (4) of young black guys had run a black nurse in a Gremlin into the wall that splits the ramp to I-75 North and the southbound Lodge. She was in a state very close to death, and when we arrived, the guys refused to "let some white, honky MF'er".....work on one of "their people"....". As I watched the life ebb from this woman, and tried to help her, I was attacked and damn near beaten to a pulp-until two of the largest BLACK cops pulled up and did their jobs protecting us. Needless to say, we all went to the ER together that night, and I never saw a difference in the blood that was shed that night. All of us bled red, black or white. By the way, the lady was an ER nurse at Detroit General and she died. I knew her well, but was helpless to do anything to save her.
Finally, I remember the events of September 11, 2001 quite well, and although not black on white, I experienced racism that day, too.
I was driving home from work at Ford after we were all released at about 10:00am that day. As I resemble an Arab looking person, I was accosted by a group of what I would describe only as white trash like people who pulled up next to my car, screaming ..."you $*cking Arab..we ought to kick your #$cking ass for what YOU just did.....". Needless to say, I carried my .40m locked and loaded for a couple of weeks after that.
Now to my point. Where, in any of the above, did you read that I was in "power" from just those two experiences I cited? How would you, all knowing and only ones to be discriminated against, feel having that kind of crap happen to you? And how could any of you, particularly black people who should know all too well what racism feels like, even come close to justifying what happened to me?
Personally, I think you can't. But for me to draw the conclusion from these terrifying events in my life that all blacks are responsible for this kind of treatment of whites is absurd, and now I call bull$%&! All of us experience racism to some degree, black, white, red, whatever.
We need to stand up collectively, start HONEST dialog, and go from there. There are many blacks that I would much rather spend my time with than put up with the racism that exists out there in BOTH communities. Hate is hate, not black OR white. It all sucks.
Now, where do we go from here is my question?
By the way, after 18 months with EMS and 4 YEARS in the military, I've seen much worse, but bringing that up will certainly raise more issues than it will solve.
Come on, lets hear some real good solutions/ suggestions here, not the same old finger pointing I see all the time. I swear some of you guys squat when you piss...... |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 378
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 6:35 pm: | |
No takers? |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5382
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 11:45 pm: | |
This basically sums up the difference as stated in an earlier post:
quote:The difference between white and black racism is that one race is in "power," one is not.
And thus the one that is in power influences policy that can seriously impact the lives, well being and welfare of the one that is not, such as at the federal, state, country, and the majority of cases local levels.
Racism can go both ways...I never denied it. However, who is impacted by it more is the issue at hand.
Yeah White people can experience racism by Blacks, but it doesnt affect where you can rent/ buy property, get a job, buy a car, when one deals with the justice system, education, medicine, in the political sphere, etc...etc...
Those situations may on occasion affect White people but nowhere NEAR as much as anyone of color including other ethnicities not defined as Black. |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1700
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 9:14 am: | |
Man can only live together in peace if they agree to subject themselves to an absolute and undivided sovereign. |
1953
Member
Username: 1953
Post Number: 1506
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 9:26 am: | |
I hate the title of this thread. Of course racial differences are alive! They always will be! |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1716
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 10:26 am: | |
"Of course racial differences are alive! They always will be!"
Come on everybody, put on your rose-colored glasses and see the world as it should be!
Peace and Blessings to all. |
Tayshaun22
Member
Username: Tayshaun22
Post Number: 399
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 8:23 pm: | |
Plymouthres... let's hear some more stories. |
English
Member
Username: English
Post Number: 642
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 9:10 pm: | |
You can't honestly believe that black people started the fire when there are sites on the Web like this one:
http://www.detroitiscrap.com
When I ran into it, I almost started a new thread here, but I've been here long enough to know better. DYes would spontaneously combust if I did.
As for "stories", we all have them. But there is a difference between incidents and an entire system that restricts your life chances, health, and welfare.
Sometimes, I think things are 100% better, and we have overcome. Then something will happen and I think to myself that whites and blacks live in completely different dimensions. We can't even perceive the reality of each other's lives... I can't even imagine what being a white woman instead of a sista might be like. It's just a reality that I can't comprehend.
I am sure that there isn't a white woman alive who'd trade places with me (per Chris Rock's famous routine). Yet there are plenty of black people who would much rather be white, or at least, not black. If black people were so lucky (i.e. affirmative action! free to be un-p.c!) then white women would be angling to look like Alek Wek. Until that happens (and sites like DetroitIsCrap do not exist), I'm skeptical about this whole line of discussion.
(Message edited by English on January 11, 2008) |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 1047
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 11:35 pm: | |
"I am sure that there isn't a white woman alive who'd trade places with me"
----------------
I would. I have always said I would love to be a black woman. Seriously. |
Kevgoblu
Member
Username: Kevgoblu
Post Number: 46
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 12:11 am: | |
Why?
Seriously. Why? What would you gain by it? Do you think that blacks have some type of hidden advantage in this game that we call life? Or are you just a bleeding heart trying to relate to the pains that other people suffer?
I'm black and perfectly happy being so. However, if the question were asked if I could be re-born, I'm not sure how I'd answer. The P.C. answer is "I'm happy being black and wouldn't want to be anything else". But reality says "Why would I choose to be in a group which will face discrimination at every turn and have lesser opportunities in every endeavor in which I choose to participate?"
Tell me why you would volentarily choose that path. |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 1048
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 1:21 am: | |
"What would you gain by it?"
Nothing.
---------------
"Do you think that blacks have some type of hidden advantage in this game that we call life?"
No.
---------------
"Or are you just a bleeding heart trying to relate to the pains that other people suffer?"
No.
----------------
"Tell me why you would volentarily choose that path"
Maybe I was a black woman in a prior life? I don't know.
Don't sweat it Kev.
Some things just cannot be explained into a nice little box fit for everyone's approval. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6966
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 6:47 am: | |
Recent reports from black couple saw a swaztika at the sliding door. But this black couple does not live in the suburbs. It happened in Detroit's East Side. |
Raggedclaws
Member
Username: Raggedclaws
Post Number: 115
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 8:20 am: | |
I stopped viewing any of it as racism a long time ago. Now I just see it as the existence of a frighteningly large number of assholes. |
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