  Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 3139 Registered: 11-2005 |
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20071210/M ETRO01/712100353 | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 1028 Registered: 09-2005 |
Are there too many political obstacles to extending the runway? How long of an extension is necessary in order to allow DET receive jets? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2337 Registered: 04-2006 |
^From the tone of the article, I'm guessing that money is the obstacle now unlike in the past where it was probably population density. I'm also sure the city isn't getting much support from the county to provide an alternative to DTW. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 51 Registered: 01-2007 |
Didn't they extend the runway in the 80's? I thought there was some big controversy over the cemetery. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 391 Registered: 07-2006 |
Interesting article. Thanks for posting it. Unfortunately, I think the homeowner's in the article are right. I would not be surprised if the city was buying up the most run-down houses first, so that they could justify giving lower prices to others later. Games like this should not be allowed. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 188 Registered: 10-2006 |
This airport doesn't need to be expanded. Metro Airport has tons of extra capacity. Anyone remember Pro Air? What a disaster. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 410 Registered: 08-2006 |
This may sound harsh, but I don't know why anyone would want to live in that neighborhood anyway. It's definitely the worst part of the city, by far. Very unusual area, sound of jets taking off and landing amid overgrown blocks. It's like some post-apocalyptic wilderness. Give the residents incentive to move to one of the new developments in Woodbridge or anywhere where there's a thriving sense of community like Springwells. They'll like it better anyway. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2780 Registered: 07-2004 |
Becomes a wasteland????????????????? What the hell to people think that areas has been for the past twenty five years or so??? Gsgeorge that is not harsh at all just the truth. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5700 Registered: 11-2003 |
One word, Eastside. jjaba. | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 216 Registered: 03-2005 |
I remember Pro Air. I loved it. I recall being able to go to an airport five minutes from home (not out in some cornfield 30 miles away), park near the entrance, buy a one-way ticket to Indianapolis for $25, with no advance planning or wildly varying ticket prices, and be on a plane within a half-hour. Of course, that was pre-9/11, and it would surely be more of a hassle today, but nothing like dealing with Metro. The one-way cab ride to Metro alone is more than what it cost for a Pro Air round trip! The planes were new and the staff was friendly, and I never had a bad experience. Sure, it was mismanaged and lost a ton of money, but from a customer's perspective I really miss it. If the city got their act together (I know, a long shot) it COULD be viable to have a small airline operating there again. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1036 Registered: 09-2007 |
So is Delray, Linwood/Hamilton Corridor, Brightmoor and Highland Park. Two words, polluted Westside (or wasteside). You don't see me shouting it out though. Not all the areas around city airport are a wasteland. It's generally only the area immediately behind it around Van Dyke and 6 Mile. My part of the eastside (about a mile of less from City Airport) which is NOT historical in any form is pleasant in fact. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 415 Registered: 08-2006 |
quote: I laughed, jjaba. Westside represent | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5702 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thanks Detroitrise. jjaba has never been there. Diehard is right on the money. Look at Midway airport, Chicago. When jjaba lived on the Southside of Chicago, (next door to Leroy Brown) he used Midway alot. Ten minutes in a taxi, and a 28 minute flight to Detroit for example. Compare that to any experience you've had at O'Hare or Detroit Metro. jjaba. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 740 Registered: 07-2007 |
The people at the Detroit News must have just driven by for the first time very recently. Since the 70's it has been a slow consistent decline, like many areas of the city. Someone should remind the newspapers that about a 50% decline in population does not spur economic development. (There are some real nice brick houses nearby). A private developer could of had a new airport built by now with millions of revenue pouring in. But I don't think City Council really cares. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 741 Registered: 07-2007 |
The people at the Detroit News must have just driven by for the first time very recently. Since the 70's it has been a slow consistent decline, like many areas of the city. Someone should remind the newspapers that about a 50% decline in population does not spur economic development. (There are some real nice brick houses nearby). The city found money to overpay cops who sued. Maybe this is part of a secret plan to get millions down the road from somewhere. A private developer could of had a new airport built by now with millions of revenue pouring in. But I don't think City Council really cares. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6871 Registered: 02-2004 |
Folks still clowning, Detroit's leaders don't know what they are doing. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 784 Registered: 03-2007 |
Danny is correct...its all about leadership...vision, courage, ability to change and adapt. The little book "Who Moved My Cheese" by Spencer Johnson describes the concept. Detroit isn't the only locale to suffer from lack of leadership...its all over the country...another classic example is Richmond, IN...once a very prosperous music recording and automotive supply community... today nothing more than an $8/hr. fast food economy...sad to see in Detroit...sad to see in Richmond...inept leaders (political, corporate, education, etc.) have caused it in both places. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1044 Registered: 09-2007 |
Goblue, htat's a horrible comparison. Richmond, Indiana isn't even a quarter (maybe even an eighth) of the size of Detroit. I do agree with the leadership bit though. However, it's basically just a plant in between two boulders. You don't have real leadership in the city of Detroit that you can appoint ot do the job correctly. Then, you must choose someone that lives within city limits. Then, you have poor voters and candidates. That will all lead to disaster. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2446 Registered: 07-2004 |
Many of you are too young to remember how the people in Warren and the Grosse Pointes boo hooed and showed their selfishness when Detroit attempted to get approval from the FAA to allow for larger planes to land at City Airport. The suburban folks were so afraid that the flight paths of these larger planes would disrupt their quiet suburban lives, that the approval was never granted. Even before ProAir, City Airport was doing extremely well with Southwest Airlines. Southwest needed a longer runway and Detroit wasn't able to accommodate them, which I believe was a result of the suburban resistence. City Airport could have been a terrific airport like Midway in Chicago, but there were too many obstacles and not all of them were the fault of the city's administration. Just ask the folks in Warren and the Grosse Pointes. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5708 Registered: 11-2003 |
jjaba can remember when there was service from Detroit City Airport to Meigs Field, Chicago. Talk about door to door convenience. In the middle of the night, Mayor Daley bulldozed Meigs back into parkland per the Daniel Burnham plan. Private plane owners had to tow them home behind their SUVs. but that's how you make a city work, not by default committees and suburban haggling. When the decision was made to enarge Wayne County Major Airport into Detroit Metro and limit passenger service at Willow Run, the poowers out in Grosse Pointe must have thought the distances weren't too far. jjaba cannot imagine the hassles in air travel from the Eastern suburbs today. But then again, they go out to E. Lansing and Ann Arbor for football games so they must like to drive. jjaba. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 101 Registered: 02-2007 |
LOL. jjaba | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1892 Registered: 05-2005 |
interesting that richmond was brought up, my dad grew up there, and my grandparents lived there until they passed. having been three many times since i was a kid, i've been witness to the latter end of its de-evolution into that 8/hr fast food economy | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 787 Registered: 03-2007 |
Detroitrise: In this case...size doesn't matter...you're right, Richmond is only about 30K population...but leadership is leadership...the size of the community isn't important...if the leadership can't or won't adapt the community slowly descends. Its probably easier to dissect the issues in a smaller community...but the concepts are no different. Gravity: Small world...my wife is from Richmond...her folks and siblings still live there. I spent three years of my career there in the mistaken belief that I could help change the direction of the community...was glad to get the hell out of there...but at least I met her. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1893 Registered: 05-2005 |
small world indeed. my grandfather was a dentist there many years ago, right off the "promenade" (reminds me of the old washington bvld monkey bars here)in downtown richmond. they used to live out on henley road off of US 40 | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5710 Registered: 11-2003 |
Richmond Record Pressing Plant. The finest Elvis records in the world were made there. What's in the bldg. today? Haven't seen Elvis records at Wal-Mart lately. jjaba. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 792 Registered: 03-2007 |
Nothing there now jjaba...the building's been abandoned...the last time I was there it wasn't much more than a shell. We're going to visit her family for Christmas...I'll check it out. Didn't know that it lasted as long as Elvis...the locals talk about Hogie Carmichael, Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, etc. I know the Henley Rd. area Gravity...used to have a horse boarded at a small farm out that way. The last time I was in the downtown area the promenade had a lot of closed up shops. I'm certain that she...and her folks...would know your grandfather's name. They've lived about three or miles north of town for the last 45 years. Her dad was originally from Winchester but he didn't want to farm. Your grandfather... and maybe your dad...would have been there when the downtown blew up...can't recall how many were killed. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1894 Registered: 05-2005 |
goblue, post up your email addy  my grandparents actually met and grew up in williamsburg. i take it its been i a while since you've been back? i was back last in 04. the promenade was torn out and car traffic returned. and i think that the record pressing plant houses a coffee shop on the ground floor now (if its the building i'm thinking of). i have seen the memorial for the gas explosion, not sure if my grandfather was there or not a the time | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 793 Registered: 03-2007 |
Gravity: Its been about six years since I've been to the downtown area...we avoid the trip to the midwest in the winter as much as possible but her folks are both 86 and we thought we'd head back this time. ew310@cableone.net | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5877 Registered: 08-2004 |
Royce, one of the reasons that Warren was against City Airport expansion is because a plane from City Airport actually crashed into a house in Warren. Granted it was a smaller plane, but that gave them the jitters for the use of larger planes. | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 220 Registered: 03-2005 |
So... no planes could EVER crash over one of the 'burbs around Metro? If we put the kibbosh on every airport because a small plane once crashed into a house ten miles away and it *mightmightmight* happen again, we'd all be flying out of the far reaches of the U.P. I'd think the convenience of having an airport on the east side would outweigh those jitters, but what do I know. | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 210 Registered: 05-2007 |
Gistok: Was that the little prop plane that crashed off of Martin, near Bunert about 15+- winters ago? I remember watching tv over my Grandparents' house as a youngin and hearing about a small plane that crash landed in the lawn of the house at the other end of my grandparents' street. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1524 Registered: 02-2006 |
Midway airport incidents from Wikipedia: quote: Far as I know, none of these incidents caused residents of the SW side of Chicago to call for the closure of Midway. Not a lot of room here (location of most recent incident marked in red):  | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 1036 Registered: 09-2005 |
Actually, a few years ago a large cargo plane almost crashed into a number of houses at the end of the Windsor airport runway. | ||
Whithorn11446 Member Username: Whithorn11446 Post Number: 168 Registered: 03-2007 |
"My part of the eastside (about a mile of less from City Airport) which is NOT historical in any form is pleasant in fact." That is interesting. I guess some people have different perspectives on what is pleasant. I guess if somebody lives on Whithorn for instance, the lack of neighbors since half the houses are gone may be in fact pleasant. Although surprisingly other streets just east of the airport like Sanford, along with certain blocks from Finley up to 6 Mile don't look half bad, but those are the blocks with brick houses. The number of breaking and entering instances in the immediate neighborhoods east of the airport has been ridiculous for 25-30 years whether you lived across from the old 15th Precinct at Gratiot & Conner, or closer to 6 Mile and Conner. It the biggest reason why so many people moved out of there. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1074 Registered: 09-2007 |
If you're think that close, no. I'm speaking near Osborn. I haven't experienced any type of crime issues yet other than a stolen garden light or two. All of the neighbors are friendly. Heck, I'm even borderlined middle class. I think we can agree though that even the neighborhoods immediate east of City Airport are better than other parts of the city on the Westside. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5716 Registered: 11-2003 |
Detroitrise, this is a thread about City Airport. Start another thread about the Westside if you wanna a discussion. Congratulations on getting to 1,000 posts. Your contributins are valuable. jjaba. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1076 Registered: 09-2007 |
"Start another thread about the Westside if you wanna a discussion." Tempting, yes. However, it wouldn't be a pretty thread if I did. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2043 Registered: 11-2003 |
Royce, I was one of a very few GPers who wanted larger planes to land at City Airport. The convenience, even back when Southwest landed there, was such a persuasive factor for expansion, the "cost" of having a little more jet noise was quite secondary to me. I still argue with a neighbor a few streets over who was adamant that we should not have any more "jet patterns over Grosse Pointe", yet he has no problem with those damn lawn mower service companies on his street from sunup to sundown with their screaming mowers, sweepers , blowers etc. Talk about noise!! | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5718 Registered: 11-2003 |
This is because The Rock has "civic minded" written all over his face. Calculate the amount of emissions from those Grosse Pointe SUVs driving to pick up passengers at DTW. Talk about a carbon footprint. Talk to us about the millions of annual kiss and ride trips to DTW from the Eastside. Most cities of Detroit's size would have two functioning airports. Examples are easy; Dallas, Houston, New York City, Montreal, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco Bay area, Washington, DC, Seattle. Rock, does Grosse Pointe have a convenient and cheap airport shuttle system to DTW? If not, let's start one. Sign up jjaba for shift work. He loves to drive 15 passenger vans and will work for tips. Even at $20 a pop, we'd make a killing. How about out of Eastland? jjaba, on the Westside. | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 222 Registered: 03-2005 |
LOL, Rock. How about all those jet skis and speedboats zooming by the Pointes? Or is waterfront-related noise music to their ears (and property values?) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5719 Registered: 11-2003 |
Doesn't Grosse Pointe have an 8am start rule for contractors? On the Westside, you honk your car horn, or do your lawn too early, and shotguns go off. jjaba learned the hard way picking up Suky for work. jjaba, Westsider. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1077 Registered: 09-2007 |
Us eastsiders know the meaning of good and tidy yards, so the other neighbors actually rejoice stuff like that. Then, we can rest after knowing our yards are clean. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5721 Registered: 11-2003 |
Diehard, The Rock only takes out the Winsome after Noon. Too many fishflies any earlier. He hates wearing goggles and keeping his mouth shut. jjaba. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2044 Registered: 11-2003 |
I am told that the shuttle service between DTW and the Parkcrest Inn on Harper nr. Vernier has gone downhill ( as has the quality of the Parkcrest Inn). We use a private service which picks you up at your doorstep, and returns you there as needed. I think it's $55 one way and they take up to three persons for that amount. And they are reliable, too. Good people. On the subject of "noise ordinances", I have never really checked the various GP ordinances to see if any of the Pointes have, much less enforce, an ordinance relating to start and end times for these commercial lawn services. One service starts in our neighborhood as early as 8:30 AM, and another goes to 6:30 PM around the corner. They sure take up a lot of space as you try to drive down a street and have to avoid hitting them as they seem to park on both sides of the street and sometimes right across from each other. Those lawn services would make an interesting topic for a separate thread. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2045 Registered: 11-2003 |
Diehard--I live a couple of blocks off Lakeshore and those "marine sounds" really don't both us at all. I believe the folks who are really bothered by the sounds of jet skiis and speed boats are not those along Lake St. Clair as much as the residents of the inland lakes in Oakland County who really hate the noise. We love to hear the sounds of the freighters. And being a "plane buff", I have no problems with the sound of the overhead planes which are still pretty high in the sky even as they begin their approach to DTW. Again, I miss the convenience of City Airport. My first recollection of City Airport was during the war when my parents took me over there to see my Uncle Hank fly his World War II bomber ( B-26) into the airport on his way to Selfridge. It was a beautiful silver bird, and we still don't know why he chose to land at City rather than at Selfridge. I would welcome Southwest back to City in a minute, but I just don't think that is going to happen. There is even some talk that Selfridge might open some of its vast space up for another commercial airport to serve the east side, but that means political as well as military considerations. I have a feeling that Detroit will remain a "one airport town" for several more years. | ||
Ro_resident Member Username: Ro_resident Post Number: 280 Registered: 11-2003 |
Judging from the isolation, long straight stretch of road, and lots of burnout marks on the pavement, French Road has become an informal Milan Dragway East. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5729 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ro resident, that was Rock cranking up the Pontiac. That GTO (Going to Ohio) gets him down the road. Don't try dragging him. Rock, not only the lawn guys parking, but what about the grocery delivery guys, the remodelers, the UPS, Fed-ex, the postman, garbage trucks, liquor store deliveries, wine shop guys, and all the daycare buses. Could drive a guy nuts! jjaba, on the Westside. | ||
Ro_resident Member Username: Ro_resident Post Number: 281 Registered: 11-2003 |
It's more than Rock and his GTO. I'd say Rock and a gaggle of friends. From Google Maps, it looks like there's more rubber on French Road than there is on the runway. http://maps.google.com/maps?f= q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&t type=&q=detroit&ie=UTF8&ll=42. 409078,-83.008347&spn=0.001256 ,0.002006&t=h&z=19&om=1 | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 584 Registered: 02-2007 |
" I have a feeling that Detroit will remain a "one airport town" for several more years." Flint Bishop is a great airport: in and out fast, lot's of flights, etc. Around 1 million passengers last year. Anyone from Troy and north should give it a try. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5742 Registered: 11-2003 |
Where do planes at Flint go to? jjaba. | ||
Lombaowski Member Username: Lombaowski Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2004 |
jjaba>Flint serves Atlanta, Orlando, Pittsburgh, Chicago and several other cities. It's actually a really nice airport and I sometimes fly in there if the price is better than metro. It's a very easy airport to get in and out of and it's right on I-75. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1092 Registered: 09-2007 |
One problem though, it's FLINT's Airport. It's technically not 2 airports for the city of Detroit. As a matter of fact, it had nothing to do with Metro Detroit, just Metro Flint. It just so happens that "Metro Detroit" has sprawled to the airport. I don't think people in Detroit (especialy eastsiders) will make a 2 hour drive back and forth to Flint when they can just take a 30 minute tops ride to Metro. | ||
Upinthewoods Member Username: Upinthewoods Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2007 |
Anybody else happen to notice this is the Dobel street neighborhood? I only bring it up because of the july discussion about this 'hood. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 5762 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thaks Lombaowski. Non-stops out of Flint to that far away IS impressive. jjaba thought maybe Detroit and Chicago. They run UAL planes from ORD, right? jjaba. | ||
Malcovemagnesia Member Username: Malcovemagnesia Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2005 |
In my experience, flights to & from Flint can be significantly cheaper than those to & from Detroit (where one airline has a "fortress" hub). For many people living on the east side, or along the I-75 corridor, the amount of time it takes to drive to Flint is about the same amount of time it takes to get out to Metro. | ||
Ro_resident Member Username: Ro_resident Post Number: 282 Registered: 11-2003 |
There is a Bishop Airport/Metro Detroit connection. I saw this in the Freep the other day: quote: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20071202/COL 33/712020550/1068/OPINION | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2007 |
What amuses me is when it is cheaper to fly from Flint than from Metro, and the flight stops at Metro. I did one of those last year. | ||
Greatlakes Member Username: Greatlakes Post Number: 103 Registered: 07-2007 |
New interactive feature from the Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20071210/S PECIAL01/71205001 and a related post from the blog "Going Home" http://community.detnews.com/b logs/index.php/neighborhood/20 07/12/16/p183#more183 | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 187 Registered: 07-2007 |
Those travel times are inaccurate. I'm on the eastside and have had to travel to Flint often. It's a 45 minute-1 hour trip. From my front door to DTW is 25 flat |
