 
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 458
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 4:09 pm: |    |
So, what have we learned from this thread? hmmm:
Missmich, is really MissCleo in drag and has no idea that MissMichigan is slang for touching oneself.
Danny, still has nothing intelligent to contribute
The_Ed, will vote for Obama and has good ideas
Exmotowner, will stay that way
Meisfan, never learned that less is more
EricD, loves violence in all forms and ill argue with a stump
Pam, knows her art and likes mash-ups
Craig, hasn't figured out how google works
Informed, isn't
Hmmm, anything else? |
Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner
Post Number: 443
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 4:41 pm: | |
yea you forgot. Gnome knows everything and is always correct. LOL |
Dhugger
Member
Username: Dhugger
Post Number: 293
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 5:02 pm: | |
Paulc: Merry Fistmas!•••••• LOL
And I still like the FIST. It flows well with the simple yet powerful Noguchi fountain. The new labor piece; Legacy in Bronze by sculptures David Barr & Sergio DeGiusti.
What the FIST represents to me is the power of the auto factories, the human sweat it has taken to build this industry and the unions that helped build a middle class in Detroit.
I am well aware that the original intention of the artist was to represent Joe Louis but art can be interpreted in several ways.
After the original FIST art was installed there was a great deal of controversy much like this thread. A second bronze was commissioned. A life like pose of Joe Louis in the act of fighting. That 'statue' as some like to call it is buried deep in the halls of COBO. Forgive me if this information has already been addressed on this thread. |
Lukabottle
Member
Username: Lukabottle
Post Number: 125
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 6:49 pm: | |
I think you it is a symbol against lefties. It should be taken down out of being biased against lefties like me. I know you are all part of the right handed conspiracy. Everything is against lefties, scissors, fry scoopers in fast food restaurants, hell even can opens. Tear it down. |
Dhugger
Member
Username: Dhugger
Post Number: 294
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 8:04 pm: | |
Lukabottle... I enjoyed your latest post.
When I started to read the statement above I thought you meant political lefties as opposed to left handedness. Or maybe you do mean the political left. Either way your post makes me smile. |
Cheddar_bob
Member
Username: Cheddar_bob
Post Number: 1539
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 8:54 pm: | |
Since the beauty of art is subjective, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I guess some people just look at the fist through racist colored glasses. |
Dhugger
Member
Username: Dhugger
Post Number: 300
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 9:06 pm: | |
Art & all the this controversy surrounding the FIST.
The opposite of love is not hate, indeed my friends it is disdain.
I know many artists and they would be thrilled to have this amount of positive or negative discussion going on about their work. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 754
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 11:51 pm: | |
controversy is the best form of flattery, nowadays |
Detroitinmyheart
Member
Username: Detroitinmyheart
Post Number: 22
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 12:04 am: | |
are we still talking about fisting? sorry I meant the fist. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 755
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 12:14 am: | |
I take the artwork as follows. Robert Graham is an LA artist, which when I lived there, I saw many of his Sculptures. He made some of the LA Olympic bronze statutes. How I feel about this artwork is this. In MY opinion ONLY
It is the fist of the under represented coming at you like an atomic bomb on Nagasaki after WWII
In other words a statement to you are not better than anyone else. Ok I said it, thats what i think. |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1443
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 7:48 am: | |
Aren't there any credible artists in Detroit who could have done the work?
If I did sculpting to that degree....in that medium... I would consider doing something similar.
Unfortunately I only work with wood and della robbia.........so far. |
Mr_onion
Member
Username: Mr_onion
Post Number: 218
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 9:16 am: | |
AND NOW FOR BREAKING NEWS ANNOUNCEMENT
THE FIST WAS JUST NAMED AS HEAD COACH AT MICHIGAN. |
Leland_palmer
Member
Username: Leland_palmer
Post Number: 424
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 2:52 pm: | |
show your love http://32807.spreadshirt.com/u s/US/Shop/Index/design/design/ jl1-2414348 |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10999
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 2:54 pm: | |
If I saw someone wearing that I would logically just assume that his shirt means "I hate you whitey"  |
Leland_palmer
Member
Username: Leland_palmer
Post Number: 425
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 2:55 pm: | |
LOL |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1472
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 2:58 pm: | |
funny Jt1
I'd like the shirt better without the support beams. |
Dannyv
Member
Username: Dannyv
Post Number: 55
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 3:15 pm: | |
Interpretation of the Fist has been going on since it's creation. http://www.aiga.org/content.cf m/not-your-grandparent-s-clenc hed-fist
That it stands where it does is by someone's decision. Remove it to another location and it will lose the context of that interpretation. Keeping it where it is serves somebody's purpose to polarize the community. Detroit realist |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11002
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 3:19 pm: | |
The atrist chose the spot. To me that takes away 'the city put it here for a reason' argument. |
Dannyv
Member
Username: Dannyv
Post Number: 56
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 4:45 pm: | |
Jt1, Not true. If you look at a photo of the statue on the artist's web site, the Fist is in the Jefferson Ave. boulevard and NOT directly in front of the CYMAB. http://www.robertgrahamartist. com/civic_monuments/joe_louis. html |
Eric
Member
Username: Eric
Post Number: 1038
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 5:37 pm: | |
You do realize that the Fist is still there and not in front CAYMB? |
Dannyv
Member
Username: Dannyv
Post Number: 57
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 5:57 pm: | |
No, I thought the statue was directly in front of the CYMB on the Woodward Ave. boulevard. |
Erikd
Member
Username: Erikd
Post Number: 966
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 12:35 am: | |
quote:Keeping it where it is serves somebody's purpose to polarize the community. Detroit realist
Dannyv,
Your accusations are simply not true....
quote:Graham selected the Woodward-Jefferson site after he saw several locations in the city. "I don't like the idea of sculpture gardens where the work is isolated," he said. "I wanted Joe to be in the center of the city, right in the middle of the street with people driving and walking by it. And I like having it near the Hart Plaza designed by Isamu Noguchi because I respect his work."
http://info.detnews.com/redesi gn/history/story/historytempla te.cfm?id=165 |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11009
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 12:49 am: | |
Standard argument process in SE Micigan:
Poster 1: Detroit is anti-white or anti-suburb because X.
Poster 2: That is not true. Here is the explanation.
Poster 1: Well even if that is true then why does the city do Y.
Poster 2: The city doesn't. Here is the history and intent of Y.
Poster 1: But if that is true it is obvious from Z that the city intentionally send a message to people in the suburbs that they are not welcome or wanted.
Poster 2: Actually the city does Z for the following reasons which make sense.
Poster 1: But ....
Poster 2: Response to but showing it is incorrect.
Poster 1: But ....
Poster 2: Response to but showing it is incorrect.
Poster 1: But ....
Poster 2: Response to but showing it is incorrect.
Poster 1: But ....
Poster 2: Response to but showing it is incorrect.
Poster 1: But ....
Poster 2: Response to but showing it is incorrect.
Repeat 1000 times and there you have SE Michigan in a nutshell. |
Eric
Member
Username: Eric
Post Number: 1041
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 12:57 am: | |
Strange. ErikD are sure that's correct? It didn't anything about black power or hating whitey.
(Message edited by eric on December 13, 2007) |
Dannyv
Member
Username: Dannyv
Post Number: 59
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 12:28 pm: | |
Thanks for the correction on the Fist's location. The link to the article in the Detroit News on the history of the Fist states that from it's unveiling, the Fist has been criticized for the same reasons stated throughout this thread. Nothing has changed the minds of those who hold those views since then. It may have to wait until generations in the future look upon the statue with apathy and ignorance, like a good many do about the other statues in Detroit, and wonder what all the fuss was about. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11019
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 12:40 pm: | |
quote:It may have to wait until generations in the future look upon the statue with apathy and ignorance, like a good many do about the other statues in Detroit, and wonder what all the fuss was about.
Or future generations will look at it wihtout the ingrained bias and hate they carry and see it for what it is - a tribute to Joe Louis. |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 4556
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 1:09 pm: | |
For the record, when Diego Rivera's Murals went up in the DIA, The Father Coughlin crowd went into a frenzy over the panel that shows a Jesus-like child being given an injection by a doctor.
They insisted (most of them without ever having seen the actual mural) that the atheist-communist Rivera had painted a mad scientist injecting the baby Jesus with germs!
The followers of Father Coughlin wailed and knashed their teeth and threatened to bomb the DIA. Armed guards were placed on the museum for 24 hours a day. Eventually, the fanatics were distracted by another Father Coughlin sermon, and went off to be enraged about something else.
It's nice to see the grandchildren of those fanatics are still in the area, posting on this forum.
A work of art that is effective causes a reaction in the imagination of the viewer, or so it is said. |
Dannyv
Member
Username: Dannyv
Post Number: 60
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 1:35 pm: | |
....a tribute to Joe Louis that even Joe Louis fans find lacking. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 583
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 1:56 pm: | |
"It's nice to see the grandchildren of those fanatics are still in the area, posting on this forum."
So anyone who disagrees with the party line is a "fanatic?" Why not pass that along to Big Brother and get "them" all banned? You'll have a great conversation by yourself. |
Detroitinmyheart
Member
Username: Detroitinmyheart
Post Number: 48
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 4:26 pm: | |
"....a tribute to Joe Louis that even Joe Louis fans find lacking."
I can most certainly agree with this statement. The man clearly deserves a much better tribute than this bronze.
A full body sculpture to say the least. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11031
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 4:38 pm: | |
quote:A full body sculpture to say the least.
Like the one at Cobo? |
Detroitinmyheart
Member
Username: Detroitinmyheart
Post Number: 50
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 4:49 pm: | |
is there one there? When was that installed? |
Elsuperbob
Member
Username: Elsuperbob
Post Number: 99
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 4:50 pm: | |
I think it's a great tribute to him since it's unique. Also keeping it to just the arm lends itself well to scaling it up to the large automobile scaled environment so that it commands attention from drivers as well as pedestrians.
The full body sculpture inside Cobo Hall is also a nice tribute to him but certainly not a unique. And it would have to be pretty huge so that it wouldn't get lost in the automobile scaled environment that is the prominent location of the fist. |
Elsuperbob
Member
Username: Elsuperbob
Post Number: 100
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 4:55 pm: | |
Detroitinmyheart, the inside sculpture was started in '84 and cast in '87. It's only half as tall as the Fist is long. Works well inside or in a smaller pedestrian space but not so great in the middle of Woodward and Jefferson.
Here's the website of it from the artist, Ed Hamilton.
http://edhamiltonworks.com/joe _louis.htm |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 4181
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 4:55 pm: | |
Barnes, as a tangent to your last post, Rivera had painted a mural at Rockefellar Center in New York, and though both the Detroit and New York murals both had socialist messages in them, the New York one was too much for them (having an actual portrait of Lenin in it) and was destroyed.
We are lucky to still have ours. Perhaps New Yorkers would like to come visit and see it some time. |
Detroitinmyheart
Member
Username: Detroitinmyheart
Post Number: 51
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 4:57 pm: | |
Ive never seen the full body statue inside Cobo.
I left the city un the early 70s.
Didnt know that. Very nice. |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 4557
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 5:10 pm: | |
So anyone who disagrees with the party line is a "fanatic?"
No, anyone who spends the day extracting threatening messages from a sculpture is a fanatic.
(Or maybe just a moran.)
Johnlodge: The destroyed Rockafeller mural was redone by DR at the Museo de Bellas Artes in Mexico City.
The amusing tale of the hysterical Coughlinists is from his autobio, a good read. (My Life, My Art) |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 4558
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 5:13 pm: | |
|
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 4186
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 5:15 pm: | |
Someday there will be an Internet Image Hall of Fame, and that picture will be hanging in the first room. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 585
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 7:00 pm: | |
Barnes, I gave you the rope and you hung yourself.
Should I post a picture of an execution from the Cultural Revolution where counter-revolutionary thinkers were shot? |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11032
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 7:30 pm: | |
You completely missed the humor of the picture. It has been floating around here for quite some time.
Sorry, no hanging today. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 586
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 7:49 pm: | |
No, I get it, on all levels...
-Patriots are dumb
-those who read art/the Fist in a way other than Barnes are dumb
-Patriots and the "something's awry with the Fist" crowd are equally dumb
I can chuckle at the picture too, but the "I'm right because I said so" demeanor and attendant insults get old. |
Wfw
Member
Username: Wfw
Post Number: 316
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 15, 2007 - 10:30 am: | |
If memory serves, there's a Lenin hidden in the Rivera mural at the DIA as well. Or at least, it certainly looks like him (balding, devilish Van Dyke beard, slightly maniacal). |
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