Discuss Detroit » Archives - January 2008 » Wayne commissioners OK purchase of Guardian « Previous Next »
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 1254
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20071206/NEWS02/ 71206027


Get your last views of the Interior. For Shame.
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Higgs1634
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Username: Higgs1634

Post Number: 239
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

are the public spaces going to be closed or are you saying they will be allowed to fall into disrepair?
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Downtownguy
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Username: Downtownguy

Post Number: 98
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My pet peeve: Did the Freep article bother to tell us who voted for/against the proposal? NO! How are we to be an informed electorate if our local newspapers don't give us this basic information? And they wonder why nobody buys the paper anymore.

For the record, voting against the Guardian deal: Ware, Parker, Bell, Blackwell and Beard.
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 1255
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"are the public spaces going to be closed or are you saying they will be allowed to fall into disrepair?"


Probably Both.
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Atwater
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Username: Atwater

Post Number: 136
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To those who truly understand these issues, just how bad is this news? (for the Guardian building, for people being able to see the inside of the Guardian building, for the 1001 building, etc)

(Message edited by Atwater on December 06, 2007)
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Jonnyfive
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Username: Jonnyfive

Post Number: 80
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The county hopes to close on the bond sale within the next 60 days and begin moving county employees from several leased buildings around Wayne County into the Guardian Building over the next six months."

Is this a net gain in CBD jobs?
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Tkelly1986
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Username: Tkelly1986

Post Number: 442
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are the current tenets being kicked out?
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4113
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A potentially sad day for a monument of American architecture.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 787
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like it. I dont know what offices outside of Detroit they would be bringing downtown though
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Rob_in_warren
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Username: Rob_in_warren

Post Number: 40
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess I don't understand the issue. How might this hurt the Guardian Building?
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Hans57
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Username: Hans57

Post Number: 235
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The Guardian Building is 46% occupied and the tenants will remain in the building, bringing in more than $2 million in revenues to the county each year."

The tenants will be staying. Thats good.
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 3916
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bye bye beauty of the guardian. wayne county hasn't got the best record of maintaining buildings
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 433
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello, xray machines and metal detectors in the lobby along with wall-to-wall shag carpeting.

Ficano's brother-in-law will soon start installing aluminium siding.

Wirt Rowland is weeping.
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Bobj
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Username: Bobj

Post Number: 3208
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 5:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't think of the security stuff, that will uglify the lobby
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 379
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ah, crap.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1311
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bye bye beauty of the guardian. wayne county hasn't got the best record of maintaining buildings



^^^ people tend to treat things different when they own them. Wayne county has been renting forever
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 434
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From an earlier thread:


lobby


preview of coming attractions
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Texorama
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Username: Texorama

Post Number: 111
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have to laugh about the aluminum siding, but it depends where the county offices are going to go. The security stuff could be out of sight, or put around the elevator alcoves with less visually destructive results than are imagined here. Presumably if current tenants are going to remain in place, that means the bank, coffee houses, and shops on the main floor. Does anyone know on what floors the majority of the empty space is?

All this said, I agree it's a damn shame. They had the chance to do some good for downtown by rescuing 1001 Woodward, and they blew it.
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 2485
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How much security is in the current location? Not CAY but the County building?
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2100
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"How much security is in the current location? Not CAY but the County building?"

Well for starters, you have to enter through the back door. Not very classy.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 985
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The fix been in since day 1. Ficano and his gang are as crooked as corkscrews.

$2,000,000 in existing rents going to the County? Nonsense. I doubt if that's even the gross, much less the noi.

Watch for several if not many tenants to try to get out of their leases. The entire character of the building will change and it's not what they bargained for.

Buying the Old County Building or whatever it's called is adding insult to injury.

This deal highlights the difference between Oakland and WC governance.
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Deandub11
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Username: Deandub11

Post Number: 185
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If it would be cheaper and ficano could use 1001 just the same as he could use the guardian, what are the benefits of him buying the guardian? Why was he pushing so hard for it instead of 100? Moreover, is there any use for 1001? It obviously wont work for residential, but is it at all attractive for office space? I know it used to have offices in it at one point, but would any company have any interest in leasing there? What im asking is, does it have any use or theoretically should it just be torn down? I dont see any doctors offices and other single office tenants moving in there any time soon.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2102
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

security

security
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Wschnitt
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Username: Wschnitt

Post Number: 42
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that Ficano was attracted to the fact that the Guardian building was already 60% leased and the 1001 was not. This is instant income for the County. What will happen to the Old Wayne County building?
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 986
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ficano was attracted to the fact the building is owned by his big money political supporters, and it's been a not great real estate deal for them. It was "help out a friend time." The building is only 46% leased and I doubt if it's making much net income, if any.
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 405
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the Detroit News article better. More Info here:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20071207/M ETRO/712070389
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 968
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ficano's office has only issued very vague announcements about exactly how the County will utilize the Guardian Building offices. This could be because there really isn't a plan except for a desire to get out of renewing a lease relationship that was confiscatory in favor of a bunch of Farbman-related individuals. Best case scenario is that the Guardian Building is only used for the kind of executive offices that are currently located in the County Building. These kind of offices don't usually require the massive airport-style security apparatus that one finds in courthouses, etc.

But, if offices frequented in large numbers by the everyday public are re-located to the Guardian Building, there will be big changes required. The building would definitely be degraded for the private tenants. Most of the private tenants are pretty small and don't have the five, seven or ten year leases that you find in the large tenant Class A building situations. Instead, they have two, three or four year leases. If the county screws up the building in the next couple years, those tenants will move. Then again, maybe that doesn't matter to the county because its long term plan could involve using the entire building. Anybody know how much office space the county uses in a given year?

(Message edited by swingline on December 07, 2007)
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Thegryphon
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Username: Thegryphon

Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everyone seems to fail to notice the fact that Wayne Co. is renovating another vacant building the Detroit Loans & Savings Blding (now vacant). Along with the Guardian the Loans & Savings was was also purchased. The County may have not saved the 1001 Woodward but there is still one less abandoned building in the CBD.

(Message edited by thegryphon on December 08, 2007)
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Umcs
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Username: Umcs

Post Number: 416
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why is the past history of maintenance by the County an indication of how things will go with the Guardian? Do we know for sure how the county will manage the building (e.g. an external building management company or an internal department)? What projects has Wayne County bungled in the past specifically (other than the Old County Building)?

Why would tenants necessarily have problems if there are not substantial changes to their leases? Wouldn't a higher volume of office personnel perhaps increase the opportunities for retail/dining in the local area?

As for Oakland County being better than Wayne County, that's a joke. Have you been to 1200 Telegraph lately? Have you been behind the public areas? And please, there's as much cronyism in Oakland as there is in Wayne. It's just less obvious and you don't have the Freep and Detnews slinking around trying to find scandals.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 444
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Umcs,
Let's say to have a professional firm in the Guardian and you invite new clients in for a meeting.

They show up, wait in line to go through the xray machine, have to surrender their pens, belts and swissarmy knives, then they get to ride up to your office. yum, pretty happy once they get upstairs in your office, don't ya think?

Or maybe you're an office guy who'd just like to step out for lunch, but you only have 30 minutes. Do you really want to spend 10 of those minutes standing in the xray line?

Do you think you might just decide to eat at your desk most days? Maybe? What does that decision mean to the lunch and sandwich shops downtown?

Face it, a company makes a its decision on where to locate based partially on quality of life of its employees. How long do you think it will take them to tire of driving in from GP or Birmingham just to be held hostage inside their offices?

As far as governmental agencies maintaining buildings? Ever been inside the Water Building? Deco gone doodoo behind plexiglass. Or maybe you're more impressed with the condition of the Durant Building? The nice job they did with the Smith Terminal? Berry?

Besides the new McNamarra Terminal, what buildings does Wayne County maintain to peerless world-class standards?
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Greatlakes
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Username: Greatlakes

Post Number: 91
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some proposed pictures Wayne County put up back in July:
http://www.waynecounty.com/new s/2007/Guardian.htm
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 268
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 2:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is not unprecedented to have public and private sector tenants in the same building with security. Look at 211 W. Fort Street with the bankruptcy court where they use a separate elevator bank and security . You only need to go through security if you are going to the court offices. Everyone else can bypass the security by using the other elevators which only service certain floors.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 445
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 6:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

there is one elevator bank - excluding the freight elevator - at the Guardian. You Access the freight elevator off the alley on Congress, next to the dumpsters.

From the inside, I think you get to the freight elevators through the basement.

MBR, are you suggesting redesigning the lobby of the Guardian?
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Taj920
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Username: Taj920

Post Number: 272
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne County doesn't maintain or control the airport any longer.
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 269
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gnome,
There are two elevator banks on the north side of the building with a total of 12 elevators. One bank goes to lower floors, the other higher floors. There are 4 additional elevators at the south end of the building, servicing all floors I believe.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 448
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I stand corrected, thankyou, mbr
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Mister_hyde
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Username: Mister_hyde

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am surprised so many people are so negative about this.

I know that there are several county offices that don't have x-ray machines and the like. As far as I am aware only the courts have security like that. So long as the courts don't move in that should not be a worry.

The Wayne County site said that they were keeping the Sterling Group to manage the building. If that means that they are going to do the upkeep on the building that should not be a problem either.
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Kslice
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Username: Kslice

Post Number: 230
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why don't they just buy the damn building they're in now? Or take a different downtown building. I can think of quite a few in need of help more than the Guardian is. The David Whitney comes to mind, why not buy that?

"The county would pay $14 million to buy the Guardian and $13 million to remodel the 500,000-square-foot building"

Remodel! I don't like the sound of that.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 748
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne County people were probably tired of getting raped on their lease, so they made a wise financial decision and invested in some fine real estate.

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