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Archive through December 16, 2007Locano30 12-16-07  3:07 pm
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Elviswithteeth
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Post Number: 50
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oakland Mall is such a dump indeed! Not the same since Hudson...well nothing ever is the same!
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Pffft
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Post Number: 1428
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When Somerset opened, Hudson's didn't keep Oakland spiffed up for its upscale customers anymore, it was downgraded to skanksville then. I still found good stuff there through the Field's years, but it's more like Universal now. But it's a bigger Hudson's/Field's/Macy's space-wise than the Somerset one.

A former Hudson's buyer told me that Northland got better designer merchandise than Oakland ...
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Sg9018
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Post Number: 94
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Locano your source is right. Here a is a link from the Free Press,
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20071215/NEW S05/712150361
The Oakland Mall will go 24 hrs from a.m. Dec. 21 to 7 p.m. Dec. 24.
Oakland is one of only nine in the nation opening for 24 hrs. The only store in the midwest. The rest of the stores are in the New York City metro. The plan was very successful in NYC.
The Oakland Macys must be a high-gossing Macys and might be a midwestern test store.
I feel that the Hudson's/Field's/Macy's at oakland mall was a good store. I do agree that the mall needs to be updated. There are many ways the new owners can expand a mall.
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Classico
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Post Number: 72
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Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Having the Macy's at Oakland open 24 hours is a horrible decision.

Are employees going to be trained to deal with drunk idiots and low lifes coming in at 3am? Easy access to the freeway....empty store......yeah great idea.

Hopefully they are planning on beefing up Loss prevention as well.

(Message edited by classico on December 16, 2007)
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D2dyeah
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Post Number: 85
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Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the mid 70's, Hudson's Oakland store was stocked with high end merchandise, and it sold, just like at Northland. To compete with Somerset ,they had to have the best merchandise to keep the Birmingham/Bloomfield Hills patrons interested. That store was also the chains best example for display and visual merchandising, the budget for Xmas decor alone was huge. Anything new and exciting in terms of fashion and design was put into the Oakland Mall store. Now the rest of the mall... they didn't keep up.
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Cmubryan
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Post Number: 490
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Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sorry but I think the Macy's/Hudson's at Oakland is still a very nice department store. There is something kind of old and dare I say grand about it-just like Northland. Obviously not like a downtown department store but better than a typical chain department store.

Take the Macy's/Hudson's at 12 Oaks. They are turning that into a very boring generic looking store! I always tell everyone it feels like a Kohls or a Sears now.
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Onthe405
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Post Number: 13
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Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cmubryan---True. There's a great deal of nostalgia tied to these stores, and that relates directly to when the stores were built. JLH Northland & Eastland were built in the 1950s as full-line stores (4 stories + basement) specifically as alternative to the downtown megastore.

The second generation stores (Southland, Oakland, Pontiac) were smaller (3 stories + basement), as the decline of the department store as the dominant retail force had already begun in the 1960s.

By the 1970s, specialty & discount stores had already eclipsed department stores to the point where the number of "departments" was scaled down to limited domestic items and apparel (the most profitable and unique merchandise). Third generation stores like Lakeside & Fairlane exemplify this (2 stories - no basement).

Even in the apparel & housewares sector, mid-tier dep't stores are struggling to compete at best. Economically, as the country continues to separate into two distinct classes (rich, poor, and little in-between), Nordstrom & Saks are thriving. So are Wal-Mart & Target.

JCP, Sears, and particularly Macy's are trying to attract both high-end & discount customers simultaneously, and are having a hard time with it.

In addition to this risky strategy, Uber-ego Macy CEO Terry Lundgren made the blunder of saddling the company with enormous debt & dissolving the diverse portfolio of brands (ranging from high-end Field's in the Midwest to more moderate stores like Robinson's on the west coast) when May stores was acquired a few years ago.

Rather than focusing on building a nationwide (bland) empire, the smart move would've been to preserve high end stores like Field's specifically for high-end markets (Somerset, State St Chicago,et al), and a separate mid-tier modest brand like Macy's for lower end markets (Pontiac, Oakland, et al).

What they created instead was a store that projects an image of having an identity crisis. Junky brands in the eyes of the Nordstrom shopper, and too expensive for the Target shopper.
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Detroitplanner
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Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmm the Fairlane Store has 3 stories. Southland has never sold out of its basement level.
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Onthe405
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Post Number: 14
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Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the correction.

Granted, I should've prefaced the post with the fact that I have not lived in the Detroit area for 25 years, so I was doing most of the recollection from my limited visits to Southland & Fairlane.

I know for sure Lakeside is only 2, and since Fairlane opened simultaneously in 1976, I thought they might be cookie-cutter.

Technicalities aside, the point I was trying to make still stands that the square footage of the stores began to decline as the century progressed.
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Cmubryan
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Post Number: 491
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Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fairlane and Twelve Oaks were similar they both have three floors. Northland is four floors as is Oakland. I believe Briarwood and Meridian are two floors. Eastland is actually five floors but their fifth floor is tiny and just contains the salon and some offices and restrooms. Oh and never call the first floor the basement nowadays (even though it kind of is) unless you want to be yelled at by a sales associate! "It's not a basement, it's the first floor!
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Onthe405
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Post Number: 15
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Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL "It's not the basement, it's the first floor"

I remember this was a no-no amongst sales associates even back when I was a kid. They always referred to it as "Hudson's Budget Store" or "The Budget Store", whereas my mom always bypassed the retail jargon with "let's see if they have it at Hudson's basement".

At least Filene's called it what it was ("Filene's Basement") and it became a stand-alone brand name. Sadly, Boston's Filene's is another institution gobbled up & bleached of any character by Macy's, although I understand "Filene's Basement" is coming back in a few years in an attempt to compete with "Nordstrom Rack", "Ross" et al.

Imagine a "basement" with a main store that doesn't exist anymore?
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Danindc
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Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

At least Filene's called it what it was ("Filene's Basement") and it became a stand-alone brand name. Sadly, Boston's Filene's is another institution gobbled up & bleached of any character by Macy's, although I understand "Filene's Basement" is coming back in a few years in an attempt to compete with "Nordstrom Rack", "Ross" et al.



Filene's Basement is alive and kicking, mostly on the East Coast. My favorite location has three floors, and of course, it's own basement.

Anyone know what happened with the flagship Filene's building at Downtown Crossing, since it was located directly across the street from Macy's?
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Onthe405
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Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

(Apologies for the digression--this is my final post off-topic, since we are supposed to be talking about Oakland)

I believe I read the "Filene's Basement" division of May was sold off (like Lord & Taylor) to a third party when May was bought out by Macy's. Some East Coast locations are still open, but they plan on gearing up to expand geographically over the next couple years.

You can probably check The Globe archive or Google about Downtown Crossing. I can't recall whether Macy's moved into the Filene's building or they closed it and the city is planning on redevelopment.
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Cmubryan
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Post Number: 492
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Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did any of the Hudson's/Macy's suburban stores use their basements as an actual discount store?
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Burnsie
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Post Number: 1232
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Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cmubryan-- Hudson's Meridian store is just one story.

The Genesee Valley store, which opened in 1970, is 2 stories and about 270,000 square feet.
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Crew
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Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cmubryan, Sure did. Eastland and Northland both had discount stores in the basement at one time. The "Pontiac Mall" now Summit Place was opened as a discount store.
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Onthe405
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Post Number: 17
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Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hudson's also had a Budget Store in the basement of the Oakland store when it opened.

There was even a separate stairway directly from the mall to the Budget Store, located just to the south [14 Mile side] of the main Hudson's mall entrance. If you wanted to take an escalator/elevator to the Budget Store, you had to go into the main store to descend.

I found an informative book "Hudson's: Detroit's Legendary Department Store" where they mentioned that the sales at the downtown Budget Store carried the entire rest of the operation financially through the worst part of the Great Depression.

An interesting piece of trivia would be to know when they discontinued "Hudson's Budget Store". My guestimate would be around 1973-1976. I know it was still at the Oakland store in the earliest of the 70s.

I'm sure the Dayton-Hudson executives at the time never dreamed that 30 years later, the ENTIRE COMPANY would become The Budget Store (Target) !
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Burnsie
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Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hudson's Budget stores at some point were renamed "Rainbow World." The Rainbow World at Hudson's Genesee Valley was open well into the '80s. It comprised a 1-story area connected to the 2-story remainder of the store.
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Onthe405
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Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Burnsie, thanks so much for jogging my memory! I completely forgot they changed the name of the Budget Store a few years before its demise.

However I'm almost certain it was "Hudson's" (top line) & "The Rainbow Store" (underneath in larger typeset), rather than "Rainbow World"

I recall the graphic, too. Very 1970s, with a rainbow arched over the top of the name.

I always disliked that "updated" very 1970s-looking typeset they adopted for the Hudson's name/logo during that era.

Even more amazing is that Bloomingdale's STILL uses that same typeset over 30 years later.

Maybe it's just me, but I think the image it projects is the cultural equivalent of green shag carpeting. Great for kitsch, but extremely cheesy for a supposed "fashion-forward" retailer.

Like Genesee, I'm pretty sure that nearly every Hudson's store (if not all) had at least one department designated as "The Rainbow Store", even in the smaller branches where there was no basement. The size of the department was tied to the available square footage.



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Fastcarsfreedom
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Post Number: 207
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Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Macy's began devouring venerable local chains long before the May acquisiting--as such I feel I should say that the Filene's in Boston was located across from Jordan Marsh--which was Macyed in the early 1990s. I believe the ex-Jordan Marsh Macy's was kept in favor of the ex-Filenes. Same dilemma in Philly--the ex-Wanamakers (downsized and briefly a Lord & Taylor) survived instead of the late Strawbridge & Clothier flagship.
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Cmubryan
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Posted on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A lot of the stores still have that "all lowercase lettering" typeset in their stores: "fitting rooms", "escalator", etc.

Ironically it's a similar typeset used in 1970s era television shows created by MTM productions.

So what exists now in those former basement budget stores? I know Northland has a huge furniture department along with "The Marketplace" where kitchen supplies exist and also a linens and bedding area. Which (if any) of these areas used to be the budget store? What about Oakland, that is now the Men's Department and gifts area, where were those departments before?
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Burnsie
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Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm pretty sure that at least at Genesee Valley, the sign said "rainbow world," but I was a little kid at the time and memory might be a bit faulty. At that store, the area is now the children's department.

I liked the Hudson's logo introduced in 1961-- "HUDSON'S" in the extended-Roman font that was very popular at the time. Interestingly, it stayed up on the stores that had it, right to the end.
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Designerguy24
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Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's start a bring back Hudson's petition!
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Designerguy24
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Post Number: 87
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Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know where I can find old Hudsons logo's online?
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Detroitplanner
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Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CMW: Wasteland is all furnature in its lower level. Eastland (if I am not mistaken) does have other things in its basement, I seem to remember better Men's clothing. I would agree with you about Northland and like to add that only a portion of the store is b eing used. For a while there they would set-up window displays from Dayton's or Marshall Fields in the store and it would drop you off at Santa Land. They also would open up huge rooms for 'warehouse sales'.

I can even recall them having a fabric dept, coins, and a bookstore in Northland.

The Downtown Store's second basement would be for linens while the first basement was for clothing.
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Burnsie
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Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The last time I visited Northland, "JLH" was still inscribed on the door handles.
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Onthe405
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Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Burnsie, I agree with you. The classic Roman font was elegant (and the accompanying “H”, scripted simultaneously a J, L, and H with the lighter green dots over the darker green background). So was the last logo they introduced prior to the Field's name change (where the letters were spaced further apart), I believe sometime in the late 80s/early 90s. I still have one of those bags.

The Bloomingdales-like Hudson’s logo, featuring the lowercase and curved lettering was the only one I feel didn’t stand the test of time well at all. The scripted Marshall Field logo spoke of classic elegance as well.

Designerguy 24, I don’t think you’ll have luck finding the series of Hudson’s logos online (I didn’t?). You might try checking e-bay periodically, as I’ve purchased some vintage JLH items there, and they always have a picture of the item. Also archived Free Press/News through the years (Public Library?) as JLH was the primary advertiser for decades.

At the Target HQ in Minneapolis they have an extensive history of Dayton’s, Hudson’s, and Field’s archived in photos. This was the primary resource for the book I mentioned in an earlier post, but I’m not sure how available it is to the general public.

Your idea to start a petition to bring back Hudson’s is not a joke or far-fetched at all. The Macy’s North (midwest) division of M is hurting badly, and that’s putting it mildly. Dismantling Field’s may be the worst marketing mistake since “the new Coke”. Folks in Chicago & Minneapolis in particular have resoundingly turned their back on Macy’s, and it’s killing their bottom line. Sales have fallen off so badly, so quickly at State St, M is looking to lease out parts of the building, starting with the basement, which is going to be rented out to a whole foods grocer.

Concurrently, sales at Nordstrom, L & T, Saks, and Von Mauer (none of which are based in IL) have increased double-digits in Chicagoland. This indicates that it’s not solely an issue of “hometown pride”; it’s also that Field’s & M are not comparable in quality and selection.

Even if the other M divisions survive (which in itself is questionable) I think there’s a very real chance they will be forced into selling off the North division. In this case, it will probably be done in pieces, and the potential is there to revive either or one, or all of the Field’s, Hudson’s, and Dayton’s brands.
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Designerguy24
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Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Then who wants to start the petition to bring back Hudson's I'll be first in line to sign it! Macy's is JUNK!
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Onthe405
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Posted on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Designerguy: What's wrong with you? You mean you don't want to dress like Donald Trump, Puffy, or Jessica Simpson & smell like Usher?

Petitioning M to change the merchandise and nameplate won't work. A petition containing 60,000 signatures was presented to the M board of directors by Chicagoland Field's customers before the changeover. They simply blew it off, and that's when the boycott started.

IMO, the most practical approach would be to get some investors together and wrestle away one prime store from M (i.e. Oakland, Somerset). I guarantee all you'd have to do is put the Hudson's name back up on the building, and people from all over the metro area would be breaking down the door to get in.

The brand could be rebuilt store by store. Unfortunately, the pool of available capital right now in metro Detroit is mighty slim, and that's being generous.
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Designerguy24
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Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 1:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well still a petition is a start! it never hurt anyone to try right?
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Fastcarsfreedom
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Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 4:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another survivor at some Hudsons/Fields/Macys is the "non-ceiling"--do many of the stores still have this feature? It seems to me Fairlane still does--I believe it's disappearing in the renovation/expansion at Twelve Oaks...anywhere else?
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Sirrealone
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Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's hope not. That look was tired 20 years ago.
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Cmubryan
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Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 9:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I happen to think that open ceiling look is really unusual and cool. It's definitely original as I haven't seen that at any other place. I think it should be kept vs. putting in a typical boring drop ceiling like they are doing at Twelve Oaks! Worst renovation ever!

I've never been to Lakeside but does that Hudsons have the same ceiling? I always assumed so because Lakeside, 12 Oaks and Fairlane were all built within a year of each other and have other similarities (not just the Hudson's but the malls themselves). A lot of these similarities are being wiped away as the malls take on their own personality as they age.
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Sirrealone
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Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lakeside was renovated about 8-10 years ago and they eliminated the open ceiling.

I agree with you that it's unique and unusual (the open ceiling). I think the problem is how dark it is and what a dreary look it gives the store. I know drop ceilings are somewhat typical, but they brighten up the place compared to the cavernous look you got with the open ceiling. Going into the 12 Oaks store the past few years kind of brought me down and made me want to leave as soon as possible.
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Mikeydbn
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Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I believe I read the "Filene's Basement" division of May was sold off (like Lord & Taylor) to a third party when May was bought out by Macy's. Some East Coast locations are still open, but they plan on gearing up to expand geographically over the next couple years.



I was just at the Filene's Basement in Chicago on Michigan Ave. last weekend. Kind of funny that you have to ride a 3 story escalator UP from street level to get to the "basement".

Not too impressed by the store. Same selection as a Marshalls or TJ-Maxx.

Last time I was at the Fairlane Macy's, I noticed that the store looked worn down. Laminate was chipped on most display cases, the carpet was torn and fraying, stains on the walls, etc... However, I do like the open ceilings with the artistic vertical slats (Hey, its better than water damaged ceiling tiles). Definitely not up to par with the Twelve Oaks or Westland locations.
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Wirt
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Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about the old Hudson's Budget Store at John R and 11 Mile?
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Fastcarsfreedom
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Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately all of the anchor tenants at Fairlane are looking tattered--retailers not investing there--presumably because of a lack of sales growth due to "demographic" changes. Both the now closed L&T and Saks locations had drifted into 'museum' status with their abundance of brown, beige and gold. At some point during the May Co. era there was a plan to rid all of the stores of the non-ceiling--presumably that is still the plan. Although I applaud it's uniqueness--it definitely gives the stores and unusual (and yes, dark) feeling. I do like it in the sense that it somewhat evokes the feeling of the big old downtown stores--but it does have a dreariness to it. I haven't been in the Fairlane store since it was macyed--presumably the signage has been changed--but I know the directional signage in the store had survived in that lowercase Hudson's font throughout the Field's era.

I just visited the Somerset "Hudson's" recently and noticed that the plastic macy*s shopping carts have disappeared--is this a permanent change at this location? Also, did the Hudson's "artifacts" that were in the Somerset store survive--I forgot to go hunting...I seem to remember a drinking fountain from downtown.
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Funaho
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Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2007 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's really sad Fairlane went so downhill. My first job was at the Babbage's there in 1990, back when it was still a passable mall. Used to get quite a bit of fighting going on though, usually revolving around the Foot Locker across the hall.

I assume they still have the curfews and restrictions on teenagers there? I haven't been there in a few years...not much left there for me.
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Cmubryan
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Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So the only open-ceiling Macy's that will be left in the area will be Fairlane? If so, I hope they do not touch that store! 12 Oaks Macy's is rapidly losing all of it's character and class.

One other point that should be made is to support the Northland store before we lose that! It's now an important part of history at age 53 and the closest thing we have to our original Hudson's. Not to mention, if that goes, the mall goes and if the mall goes then that is just another shot to the heart of our Metropolitan area. We should start the "Support and Save Northland group" before the point where most people start these groups (after it's too late).

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