 
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2631
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 11:08 am: |    |
quote:Granholm has had 5 years to provide proactive leadership and move this State in a positive direction. She has failed miserably.
That is undeniably true. Of course, it's also undeniably true that she is a lot better than Dick DeVos would have been. |
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3105
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 11:26 am: | |
Okay, prove it.
And no, I'm not stumping for DeVos here. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 301
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 11:43 am: | |
Only political hacks keep trolling with the claim that "Every year has seen an increase in her budgets". And? If you looked beyond the Republican talking points, you would know that those increases are almost entirely from money for schools and federal funding that's limited in how it can be used. The state General Fund that pays for most state services has not gone up every year and in fact has seen some significant cuts. You can't raid the school money or the federal money to pay for state services and so whether the overall pot of money has increased has had no effect on the state's ability to pay for most services. |
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3107
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 11:58 am: | |
$1.4 million in tax hikes and you're convinced that they hadn't raised spending?•••
Oh, please! |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 410
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 12:14 pm: | |
Ms. Granholm simply doesn't know how to get her "vision" through the committee process. She has all the power she needs, if she knew how to use it.
Sadly she seemingly doesn't know what she doesn't know, and now she's bringing in another smart person who doesn't know the process.
John Engler was a ram-rod and might have been able to legislate us out of the mess he got us in. Would he have taken financial control of Detroit like he did in Benton Harbor, Flint, Highland Park, Hamtramck? Maybe. Will Jenny?
Never.
Engler was an arrogant SOB, but he knew where the bodies were buried, he knew how to manipulate his opposition and how to placate enough folks to get his agenda through. Does anyone remember how he encouraged republicans to register as democrats and vote for Geoffrey Fieger in the democratic primary? How he was able to keep the Coleman from supporting Blanchard? Detroit democrats stayed home and Engler waddled into Office.
Jenny seems to think you can appeal to the better nature of our angels, but that just isn't the case. The result is that we've had gridlock because she isn't a leader.
You can't blame John on the fact that Jenny can't - or at least hasn't - led.
The legislative process is a fugly thing. It is all arm twisting, bullying and back-scratching. It is all about proccedural moves within the various committees and it is distasteful in the extreme. If you want to get stuff done you have to be able to do all that stuff; but, even if you want to do it, you have to know how. Jenny doesn't know, Krichbaum doesn't know, so what does that get you?
More nothing.
Right now, the Republicans have their heels dug in, the democrats are leaderless and the citizens are taking it directly between the backpockets.
We lose.
The truly sad thing is that Jenny as part of the McNamara regime, but while gaining the mantle of leadership never learned the grissily details of the legislative process.
Dick Devos would have been no savior either. That silver-spooned fool would have been even more lost than Granholm. The reason? He too has not one iota of legislative experience. There is a reason folks say that legislation is like watching sausage being made. It's messy, gross, unappealing, filthy business. It's dirty and hurtful and MEAN.
John Engler got things done because he liked the dirty, messy and MEAN part of legislation. Did he intentionally hurt people? Sure did. Especially those who weren't likely to vote for him: the mentally ill, the poor, the urban masses. Engler didn't care if he was liked, he just cared to get re-elected. Appeal to your voting base + Pick up disaffected stragglers + Split the opposition into subgroups = win.
Toss in term-limits and we will soon be faced with a whole new crop of fools who don't know the legislative process. All they are learning is how to get re-elected.
Hold on folks, we're in for a rough ride.
(Message edited by gnome on November 30, 2007) |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 302
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 1:11 pm: | |
"$1.4 million in tax hikes and you're convinced that they hadn't raised spending?•••
Oh, please!"
Are you looking for the lazy reader award? Or political hack award? Go back and read what I wrote, and then formulate a coherent response to my comments, not what your talking points tell you to respond with . |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 411
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 2:01 pm: | |
Novine, the State budget $38.5 BILLION in 2002, in 2007 it was $42.8 Billion.
http://www.michigan.gov/budget /
Math isn't my strong suit, but even a dumb guy like me can add.
Both Parties are to blame, but to suggest that Ms. Granholm has somehow held the line on the budget belies a non-objective point-of-view.
It's ok if you think Jenny is the greatest, but I suggest you take a different tack. You might want to paint her as a sympathetic character who has been handcuffed by those mean ol Republicans.
However, the discussion here is about leadership and her appointment of a COO and not about the tactless spew of insult. Calling folks "hacks" or "lazy" is just plain disrespectful. |
Umcs
Member
Username: Umcs
Post Number: 407
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 2:17 pm: | |
Novine is right.
And Gnome is right.
The overall budget has INCREASED. However, discretionary spending from the General Fund (in other words, the amount of money politicians actually have a say in spending) has DECREASED. She's cut the discretionary spending but the mandated spending has increased while she was in office. The tax revenues that we as citizens pay to the State account for a smaller percentage of the budget than in in 2002. |
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3109
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 2:22 pm: | |
Typo on my end: $1.4 billion, not million.
And don't flatter yourself, Novine.
Please explain where those extra $$$'s came from for "higher" education?
Shall I continue? |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 303
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 3:57 pm: | |
What extra $$$ for higher ed.? Are you talking about the increase in the school aid fund? Most of that increase came from higher property tax revenues. With property values falling off, we probably won't see that again soon.
"Novine, the State budget $38.5 BILLION in 2002, in 2007 it was $42.8 Billion."
As I said before "those increases are almost entirely from money for schools and federal funding that's limited in how it can be used".
The overall budget can go up but as Umcs correctly pointed out, if that money can only be spent on schools or specific federally funded activities like Medicare spending, if you need money for roads or prisons or local revenue sharing, your out of luck. That's what's happened in the State's General Fund. That has been cut time and again, leading to fewer employees and fewer services. |
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3111
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 4:37 pm: | |
This money for higher ed:
From the October 31 edition of The Detroit News
quote:Public schools, community colleges and state universities are relative winners in the budget. They'll get 1 percent spending increases this year.
The minimum school aid grant for public schools will increase to $7,204 per student. The lowest-spending school districts will get an additional $96; the highest-spending districts will get $48 in an attempt to inject some equity into school spending.
The Detroit Public Schools, by far the largest district in the state, will receive an additional $88 per pupil or $8.6 million above last year.
Elsewhere in Metro Detroit, Utica Community Schools will get an additional $85 a student, or $2.4 million; Pontiac will receive an extra $92 per student, or $692,000; and Brighton will get an additional $93 per pupil, or $642,000.
That did not come from just "property taxes".
And where were to calls to hold the line on spending (i.e. FY 2007-2008 levels = FY 2006-2007)?
Or does spending more of other people's money make you feel warm at night? |
Ferntruth
Member
Username: Ferntruth
Post Number: 236
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 4:49 pm: | |
I voted for her..TWICE. And I would again if I could.
Is she perfect? of course not.
But to lay ALL of the blame at her feet is simply wrong. Those clowns in the Legislature deserve just as much scorn.
One last item: Of course Engler did well. He served under a DEMOCRATIC White House. Under the Clinton economy, my dog could have done well as Governor. |
Umcs
Member
Username: Umcs
Post Number: 409
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 9:11 pm: | |
Ooookay, here's what you can find by just looking at publicly-available information.
In 2001, the General Fund budget was $9.740 billion dollars (revised down at a later date to actually be only $8.990 billion because of tax cuts that derived from the GF). The Overall Budget was $36.2 billion, of which, $13.8 billion went to K-12 and higher education (community colleges, universities, and financial aid).
In 2006, the Overall Budget was $41.2 billion. $15.7 billion went to K-12 and higher education. However, the General Fund was listed at $8.9 billion. These figures are in dollars to dollars without adjustment for the rate of inflation.
In five years, the funding for ALL education in the state went up about $2 billion dollars. I can't say specifically why for the overall period but if you look at each year's budget, the governor for each year stated why. I won't even argue that the money was justified or well spent. It was spent though.
As yourself these questions though:
How much did you pay for a gallon of gasoline back in 2001? I'll be it sure was a lot less than the $2.00+ average from '06. The government eats inflation just like a household does. I just pointed out that for all intents and purposes, the General Fund has slightly shrunk over time in dollars and has not been adjusted to reflect inflation for 5 years.
The next question to ask is how much are we subsidizing our citizens, institutions, and businesses? In 2006, the estimated tax exemptions, subsidies, and other handouts from the government amounted to $29 billion in foregone revenues. Where do you REALLY think the problem lies here? |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3174
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 9:19 pm: | |
prices on everything have gone up for everyone, including the state - insurances, fuel, COLA for wages, etc.
11% over 5 years is damned little nowadays - less than inflation (from 2002 to 2006 inflation was just over 11% - who knows where 2007 will land)
inflation calculator |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 305
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 9:19 pm: | |
'That did not come from just "property taxes".'
OK Mr. Budget Expert - tell us all where that came from?
As for the "higher spending" - A 1 percent spending increase won't even cover a districts costs for health care, utilities, etc. Or in your world do those costs never go up? Notice the word they used - "relative" - that means that their budgets didn't get whacked as badly as everyone elses. Some departments saw heavy cuts. |
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3112
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 10:46 pm: | |
And why should I prove your argument?
You made the claim, you provide the evidence.
I also never made the claim that my costs never rose.
Fortunately, I'm still working. But I'm getting the stuffing kicked out of me by higher gas, insurance, etc. I don't have any choice in the matter and have cut my expenses.
Just where is it written that those in the public sector are exempt from the real world? |
Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 7817
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 10:58 pm: | |
The insidious part is that these Liberals make it seem like a crisis and that they dislike taxing and spending. In truth, this is their goal and desire in order to create a country that depends on (and must vote for) them in perpetuity. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 308
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 3:29 am: | |
You made the claim that my statement was wrong. You provide the evidence for that. I'll be holding by my breath in anticipation.
The difference between your costs, my costs and the cost of government is that government doesn't have the choice of not educating your kids or policing the streets or locking up felons. When the cost of doing those things go up, you can cut expenses but it means that we don't educate the kids as well, or have as many police or keep as many people in prison, not that you don't keep the premium cable channels or turn the heat down a few degrees. |
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3115
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 10:17 am: | |
Sorry Novine, but I'm not going to waste my time proving something that isn't true.
Try using the trolling tactics that you've picked up from the regressisphere on some newbie who'll easily fall for it.
Feel free to hold your breath, but I have a hunch that you'll fail to follow through with that just like with providing evidence to back up your frivolous claim.
To address your second point, yes, government does have a choice: it's called prioritizing your expenses and adhering to the Constitution.
Did MSU need to give out as many 5% raises as it did earlier?
Do universities pay too much for perks? I seem to recall a story from Steve Wilson about EMU springing for their presidents home to the tune of about $5 million.
Are schools competitive for what they are paying for regarding health insurance?
Why can't anyone else besides BCBS provide coverage for less?
Even better yet, is government paying for programs that it has no business being involved with in the first place?
I can continue, but I should've made my point.
There are choices that can be made. But they require people with the courage to make them, not piss away $177K for someone else to make those decisions for them. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1606
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:11 pm: | |
Dick DeVos would not have been any more effective at fixing the current crisis, because he still would have been dealing with the same bunch of idiots in the legislature that can't get a darn thing done. Engler was effective because he had a great economy to work with, and as a former legislative leader knew how to work with experienced legislators to get things done. Term limits had not taken effect fully yet, so Engler could twist some arms and scratch backs to get most of what he wanted. The current bunch of idiots live in the times of partisan politics, where the other side cannot have a victory that could help someone get reelected/elected. DeVos is not used to dealing government, so he would have been completely ineffective. Combine that with a Democratic House, and nothing still would get done. What is going to be scary is the next governors election. If DeVos buys his way through the GOP primary, the Dems better put someone up other that the Lt. Governor. But I think that people are so ticked at the legislature that they will take notice and vote for people that will actually get the job done. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 312
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:25 pm: | |
You mean that you don't want to actually check the facts because they might disprove your slam? Got it. I did check the numbers and while the numbers from the state are based on the revenue numbers from this summer, the only two significant increases in School Aid Funds were from the State Education 6 Mill property tax and the new MBT. Since those numbers were based on the MBT as adopted and not with the latest amendments, we'll see if the MBT is a positive gain for schools. Either way, my point on property tax revenue still stands until you provide evidence to the contrary. |
River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat
Post Number: 313
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 2:41 pm: | |
The entire State of Michigan government should be sacked. Only the voters have this power; yet year after year, we return the same incompetent donkeys and elephants, idiots and imbeciles to office.
Time to back (and elect) a third party. It can be the greens, the libertarians, the socialists -- anyone to replace the status quo, corrupt present players. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 707
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 2:47 pm: | |
Granholm is not a leader, true. She is a puppet for unions. |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1123
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 3:35 pm: | |
Succinct yet succinct Lefty |
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3121
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 8:58 pm: | |
I'll say it again:
quote:Sorry Novine, but I'm not going to waste my time proving something that isn't true.
Try using the trolling tactics that you've picked up from the regressisphere on some newbie who'll easily fall for it. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 314
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 12:32 am: | |
Isn't that clever, you can quote yourself. Too bad you're not so careful repeating what others said first. No matter, I stand by my earlier comments (not your distorted version of them) and the facts back up my take on the school aid funding, not yours. |
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3122
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 9:39 am: | |
Good for you.
If you stand by your facts, then you should be more than able to provide a source, rather than play these stupid games.
Go back to your regressiphere buddies and ask them for help if you need to (and from what I've seen so far, you'll need all the help you can get)! |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6847
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 10:17 am: | |
Lefty2
Granholm is a REAL leader. She's there to clean up Engler's mess. Who did you vote for? Billionaire Dick! Because if he became governor. Michigan would be a economic nightmare. There would be more jobs but liberal cuts in services for the poor and low-income families or ship more Michigan jobs to China. What could he do while this state is in 900 million dollar budget shortfall? He would do like any other neo-con would be raise taxes for the poor and low-income families, freeze taxes for the rich, cut medicaid and welfare to 25% of Michigan families and keep the SBT. I'm glad that lots of Michiganders didn't vote for him. We gave Granholm a second chance and she's did the tremendous job for this state. Fewer alternative jobs are coming to Michigan, She force the neo-cons in the State Senate to vote on the property tax hike and prevented a huge government shutdown and she rid of the SBT and create other ways to tax goods and services.
YAY GRANHOLM! |
Ferntruth
Member
Username: Ferntruth
Post Number: 241
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 12:30 pm: | |
Here, here, Danny! |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 412
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 1:51 pm: | |
Danny, your point is interesting, but I must wonder if you can point to anything on which she has provided leadership?
She certainly hasn't repealed any of the massive changes that Engler instituted. Not in healthcare. Not in welfare. Not in tax policies.
She certainly has the mantle of leadership, but I'm just not convinced she has actually shown leadership on repealing any of Engler's reforms.
I would like to be convinced, and I would welcome any proof to your claim.
To bring Devos into the discussion - especially in a totally hypothetical "what-if" - doesn't prove anything; in fact, to bring hypotheticals devolves our discussion into the realm of fantasy.
Now, while I understand "fantasy" sports leagues are all the rage; but, besides igniting the emotions of the ill-informed "fantasy politics" serves to merely cloud intellectual debate. |
Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 7899
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 1:20 am: | |
She is a socialist liberal in a state that needs a capitalist. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6849
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 9:03 am: | |
That's right Ccbatson,
Granholm socialist instinctive politics did came from Canada. After all she was born and raised in Canada. Her tricks really worked here in Michigan and No she is not putting Michigan into pre-Canadian Socialist culture. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 417
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 9:11 am: | |
Danny-
We're still waiting for you to provide us with some concrete examples of Ms. Granholm actually leading.
The only example that comes readily to mind is moving the Democratic Presidential Primary forward into the calander year.
How did that turn out? |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6850
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 9:14 am: | |
Gnome,
You quote that She certainly hasn't repealed any of the massive changes that Engler instituted. Not in healthcare. Not in welfare. Not in tax policies.
I SAY
SHE DON'T NEED TO. THE WELFARE PROGRAM IN MICHIGAN IS WORKING FINE INCLUDING THE WELFARE TO WORK PROGRAM. FOLKS WHO ARE NOT THAT DISABLED WOULD QUALIFY FOR CASH ASSISTANCE AND EBT CARDS ONLY FOR 2 YEARS. THEN THEY MUST WORK AND PAY OFF THE WELFARE THEY USED. SMART IDEAL FROM ENGLER. BUT BAD IDEAL FROM SOME DEMOCRATS. GRANHOLM WANTS TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE WELFARE TO WORK PROGRAM, BUT SHE MUST CLEAN UP THIS NEO-CON MESS FIRST.
OUT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN MICHIGAN IS WORKING FINE. IT'S FOLKS WHO ARE NOT USING THEIR BRAINS TO PICK UP SOCIAL SURVIVAL SKILLS IN THE CHALLENGING WORLD. AFTER GRANHOLM CLEAN UP ENGLER'S MESS, THAN HEALTH CARE WOULD BE IN THE AGENDA.
GRANHOLM DID CHANGE SOME TAX POLICIES IN ORDER FOR THE STATE TO MAKE SOME MONEY AND GET OFF THIS 900 MILLION DOLLAR BUDGET SHORTFALL. SHE IS DOING A GREAT JOB WITH THE TAX POLICIES. SO DON'T BLAME HER. IT'S NOT GOING TO HELP
YAY GRANHOLM! |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2179
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 9:15 am: | |
Batman will get his wish - DeVos will be the next governor. Perhaps he will build us a nice big Blackwater USA (now Blackwater "Worldwide")camp so they can claim to have created jobs.
heh.
1965
Prince Corporation is founded in Holland, Michigan, by Edgar Prince, father of future Blackwater founder Erik Prince. The company specializes in auto parts.
June 6, 1969
Erik Prince is born.
1973
Prince Corporation begins marketing the "lighted sun visor" to car companies, a wildly successful innovation that nets the company billions of dollars.
February 1979
Erik Prince's older sister Betsy marries Dick Devos, CEO of Amway and a billionaire contributor to the GOP and right-wing political causes. Devos was the Republican candidate for governor in Michigan in 2006.
1988
Gary Bauer and James Dobson found the socially conservative Family Research Council, funded primarily by the Prince family. Erik Prince interns there, before moving on to an internship in President George H.W. Bush's White House.
1992
Erik Prince earns a commission in the U.S. Navy. He goes on to become a Navy SEAL and serves in Haiti, Bosnia, and the Middle East.
March 2, 1995
Edgar Prince dies of a heart attack.
July 22, 1996
Prince Corporation is sold for $1.35 billion. Erik Prince retires early from the U.S. military.
December 26, 1996
Erik Prince's Blackwater Lodge and Training Center Inc. is incorporated in Delaware.
January 30, 1997
Blackwater purchases property in North Carolina.
January 1998
Blackwater gets its first paying customer, a Navy SEAL team. The company specializes in firearms training, but soon receives requests from Spain to train presidential security details and from Brazil for counterterrorism instruction.
February 1, 2000
Blackwater wins its first federal contract and is entered into the General Services Administration contracting database for government-approved goods and services, enabling it to compete for larger, longer-term federal contracts.
October 12, 2000
After the bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen, Blackwater gets its first long-term federal contract to train sailors for the U.S. Navy.
2001
Blackwater's federal contracts total $736,906.
September 11, 2001
Terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, DC.
2002
Blackwater's federal contracts total $3.4 million.
2002
Blackwater Security Consulting is founded, moving the company into the private security business.
2003
Blackwater's federal contracts total $25 million.
March 20, 2003
The U.S. invades Iraq.
2004
Blackwater's federal contracts total $48 million.
March 2004
Blackwater announces it has won a contract to train Azerbaijani maritime commandos. The work is done with approval of the U.S. government, which looks to Azerbaijan as a crucial ally in the oil- and gas-rich Caspian region.
March 31, 2004
Four Blackwater operators are killed in Falluja, their burnt bodies dragged through the streets and hung from a bridge. The incident sparks a major battle in the Iraq War. The public takes notice of Blackwater for the first time.
April 1, 2004
Blackwater engages Alexander Strategy Group to do damage control. Within days, Erik Prince has private meetings with senior Republican members of Congress.
April 4, 2004
U.S. Marines lay siege to Falluja, while to the south in Najaf, Blackwater operators defend the Coalition Provisional Authority's headquarters from Mahdi Army attack.
June 28, 2004
CPA Order 17 provides private contractors with immunity from Iraqi law.
September 2004
Presidential Airways, a Blackwater-owned company, is awarded a $34.8 billion contract to transport troops and supplies in Afghanistan.
November 27, 2004
A Presidential Airways plane crashes into a mountain in Afghanistan, killing three Blackwater operators and three U.S. military personnel. A subsequent investigation reveals that the pilots were joy riding in an uncharted area.
2005
Blackwater's federal contracts total $352 million.
January 5, 2005
Families of the four Blackwater contractors killed in Falluja in March 2004 file a wrongful death suit against the company.
May 2005
A Blackwater-owned company called Greystone Limited is incorporated in Barbados. Among other things, it offers "proactive engagement teams" to conduct "stabilization efforts, asset protection and recovery, and emergency personnel withdrawal." Clients are also offered training in "defensive and offensive small group operations."
June 25, 2005
A Blackwater team fatally shoots an Iraqi man along the side of a road in Hilla. Operators do not report the incident.
August 29, 2005
Hurricane Katrina strikes New Orleans. Blackwater operators arrive within hours with weapons and combat gear. It is the company's first foray into the U.S. domestic security market.
November 28, 2005
A Blackwater convoy collides with 18 cars while driving to and from a meeting at the Iraqi Ministry of Oil. Investigations later determine that operators' accounts of the incident were "invalid, inaccurate, and at best, dishonest reporting." According to one Blackwater operator, the convoy's tactical commander "openly admitted giving clear direction to primary driver to conduct these acts of random negligence for no apparent reason." Two Blackwater employees are fired.
2006
Blackwater's federal contracts total $593 million.
May 2006
Blackwater announces plans for new combat training facilities in California and the Philippines.
February 6, 2006
Pentagon releases its Quadrennial Defense Review, classifying private contractors as a part of the Defense Department's "Total Force."
September 24, 2006
Blackwater convoy driving down the wrong side of the road ("counter flowing") in al-Hillah strikes an oncoming car, propelling it into a telephone pole. The Iraqi car bursts into flames. Blackwater contractors leave the scene without offering help to the victim, who dies in the fire.
December 24, 2006
Drunken Blackwater operator Andrew Moonen shoots the Iraqi vice presidents' security guard in the Green Zone. He is fired, fined, and flown back to the United States, but returns to Kuwait two months later with another private contracting firm.
2007
Blackwater's federal contracts total $1 billion.
February 7, 2007
House Oversight and Government Reform Committee holds hearings on the use of private security contractors in Iraq, focusing largely on Blackwater.
April 2007
Blackwater abandons plans for its Philippines' training center and instead opens a new facility in Illinois.
May 2007
Blackwater operators fatally shoot an Iraqi man who strayed too close to their convoy outside the Iraqi Ministry of Interior. The incident leads to a tense standoff with Iraqi military and interior ministry guards. U.S. soldiers are forced to intervene.
September 16, 2007
Seventeen Iraqis are killed and 24 wounded when Blackwater operators open fire in a traffic circle in central Baghdad.
http://www.motherjones.com/moj oblog/archives/2007/10/5725_ma king_a_killin.html |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 6851
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 9:16 am: | |
Gnome,
As for the Presidental Primary it will go ahead on Jan 15 as scheduled. Deviation for it will be unacceptable. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2180
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 9:17 am: | |
Oh - I should bracket any DeVos rant with: GRANHOLM SUCKS.
We are just a stepping stone for her position in the would be Hillary Administration. We been sold down the river folks. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 419
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 9:59 am: | |
danny-
Just SHOUTING doesn't make it true, nor does just saying it. You still haven't provided a shred of objective evidence for me to consider.
We're all waiting breathlessly for you to support your claim that Mr. Granholm has been an effective leader.
The Primary will cost the Michigan taxpayers $10 million to put on; but once the Convention comes around we won't have a single vote in determining who our candidate might be.
Since the idea to move our Primary forward was hatched by Ms. Granholm, Ms. Dingle and Mark Brewer how do we benefit? |
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