Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce
Post Number: 765 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 5:33 pm: | |
I haven't heard of this or seen anything like it in the renderings... anyone have any info? From Model D Media- "The building foundation work has been completed and 80% of utility work is done. The concrete structure that has risen along Cass is a security tower. "It is a major element," says project architect Tushar Advani of Parsons Brinkerhoff. "It marks the entrance to the facility." There will also be an 8-foot wall that surrounds the entire 2.4-acre site." http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/rptc12117.aspx |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1665 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 5:59 pm: | |
Boy, they just don't get it. Instead of a welcoming, open transit center, they give us a guard tower and walls. Sheesh. |
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge
Post Number: 357 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 6:21 pm: | |
what!? what is this, alcatraz? |
Jams Member Username: Jams
Post Number: 7062 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 6:24 pm: | |
If you ever spent much time in the Cadillac Square or Capitol Park centers, not such a bad idea. Both those areas were open-air drug markets, and especially at Cadillac Square, I saw more than once, the benches used for some late night al-fresco sex. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5807 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 7:17 pm: | |
Is that worse than "a cappella" sex? |
Jams Member Username: Jams
Post Number: 7065 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 7:51 pm: | |
No, if a Soprano is not involved. |
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy
Post Number: 159 Registered: 04-2007
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 8:12 pm: | |
Well, judging from the renderings I've seen, there will be a bunch of bus pull-throughs surrounding the enclosed building, and you certainly don't want pedestrians crossing from every direction through the lanes. It seems that a wall is a good idea. |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 6833 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 8:14 pm: | |
They started to build that ugly building. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1666 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 8:22 pm: | |
"Tear down that wall!" |
Atwater Member Username: Atwater
Post Number: 105 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:03 pm: | |
I, too, support the 8-foot surrounding wall and the guard tower. Have you ever seen some of the people who use this system? If we really want to build up a clean, safe and healthy downtown, these are necessary provisions. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1667 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:06 pm: | |
Ummm, if you want to build a clean, safe, healthy downtown, maybe you should get rid of the things that cause us to resort to fortified architecture. Did we learn nothing from taking down the reinforced concrete RenCen berm? Downtowns are about foot traffic and pedestrian walkability. Oh, I guess that won't work in Detroit. Keep building more moats! Higher walls! Bigger gates! Taller security towers! Security is just around the corner! |
Shark Member Username: Shark
Post Number: 305 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:15 pm: | |
Sounds like a good plan. If they are able to keep the riff-raff out, maybe less people will abuse the new facility and more people will use the transit system. |
Atwater Member Username: Atwater
Post Number: 106 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:21 pm: | |
Detroitnerd, Well hopefully the high walls and guard tower will do their job and contain all of the people who are "unclean, dangerous, or unhealthy", thereby making it possible for the rest of the area to promote "foot traffic and pedestrian walkability".. which is what you want, and which is what I want, as well. I just think that in order to be able to freely promote those things, first we need to have certain people off the streets and contained where they're supposed to be. [message edited for formatting] (Message edited by Atwater on November 26, 2007) |
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1110 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:22 pm: | |
I thinks its going to be an albatross the likes of the monkey bars. |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5346 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:23 pm: | |
quote:Detroitnerd, Well hopefully the high walls and guard tower will do their job and contain all of the people who are "unclean, dangerous, or unhealthy", *thereby making it possible for the rest of the area to promote "foot traffic and pedestrian walkability"*.. which is what you want, and which is what I want, as well. I just think that in order to be able to freely promote those things, first we need to have certain people off the streets and contained where they're supposed to be. And NY, Chicago, and LA does this so well... Not a homeless person to be seen in the city... (Message edited by Detroit_stylin on November 26, 2007) |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1668 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:24 pm: | |
Yeah, cause that's what makes downtowns great: Keeping the riff-raff out and building walls. Perennial Hamtramck mayoral candidate and local crank Richard Fabishak had a plank in his platform that was outrageous enough to make me chuckle. He proposed building a wall around Hamtramck. Maybe he's on to something here. Evidently, walling off our "public" resources to keep out the public makes perfect sense. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1669 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:26 pm: | |
"I just think that in order to be able to freely promote those things, first we need to have certain people off the streets and contained where they're supposed to be." ^Proto-fascist garbage. |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 862 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:28 pm: | |
"beggars can't be choosers. Just be happy that there's some progress being made in our crappy transit system." |
Atwater Member Username: Atwater
Post Number: 107 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:38 pm: | |
Yeah, maybe we shouldn't have any walls or guard towers.. maybe we should just leave these people alone and let them continue their current behavior- literally pissing (and sometimes shitting) all over the place. And verbally harassing people walking by. (And I don't have any crime statistics for Capitol Park, but I find it hard to imagine none were committed by such people). But you know, maybe Detroitnerd is right. Don't build a wall. Instead, let's welcome all of these folks to wander back to their old stomping ground at Capitol Park, just a few blocks away, and they can welcome the new residents of The Griswold and the Book Cadillac. |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5348 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:40 pm: | |
Better yet, why not build a wall to keep the likes of people like YOU out.... If you ask me you are worse than them... |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1670 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:43 pm: | |
Hahaha. Bingo, DS. |
Atwater Member Username: Atwater
Post Number: 108 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:51 pm: | |
Well, Detroit_stylin, let's see. I come downtown to help improve the city. I care. I spend money down there. If I saw a piece of litter I could easily pick up and properly dispose of, I'd do so. I've called the police at times to notify them of problems, and I've been involved, in personal ways, for years, with efforts to clean up the city. But I guess you'd rather have people down there who could care less about their surroundings and are the instigators of many of the problems in the first place. Great. |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5349 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:55 pm: | |
completely baseless and does not justify what you said about an entire subset of the city's population that you labeled ans 'dangerous'... |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1671 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:55 pm: | |
Yeah, you care so much that you'd just like downtown to be reorganized as some gated community -- or Singapore. Pfft. |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 865 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:56 pm: | |
Atwater, Detroit_stylin's point (which I do agree) is that you can't just look down on everyone else and isolate yourself from them. These people will be around anytime and everywhere. You can't make them go anywhere. If anything, you should be trying to educate them and tell them why what they're doing is wrong instead of sending them to Mars. |
Royce Member Username: Royce
Post Number: 2431 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:02 pm: | |
I thought that building the transit center where it will be was the answer to getting the undesireables away from the Book Cadillac area and Campus Martius Park. An eight foot wall on top of that seems extreme. (Message edited by royce on November 26, 2007) |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5350 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:03 pm: | |
I know right Royce...especially on a prominent corner such as that one there... |
Atwater Member Username: Atwater
Post Number: 109 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:04 pm: | |
Ok, I think my language was a little stronger than I had intended, because when I went to contrast my original "If we really want to build up a clean, safe and healthy downtown" with it's opposite, I also switched, at the same time, from talking about the city to talking about people. So instead of talking about "an unclean, dangerous and unhealth downtown", I used those adjectives for people. While I do think they apply for some of the people who use this system, which is why I support the wall and the guard tower, I began this conversation using the wording for how the city should and should not be, and that's really how I should have kept using it. |
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 2307 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:11 pm: | |
Anybody with a camera gonna take a photo of this monster? |
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5351 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:14 pm: | |
I have seen and wondered what the big azz concrete structure they were putting up was... Yeah I can kinda see that it is going to look like azz... |
Shark Member Username: Shark
Post Number: 306 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:52 pm: | |
Get a grip people, it isn't going to look like the Jackson Penitentiary. Take a look at the artist rendering, it will look fine. |
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 457 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:30 pm: | |
I actually think only two words when I hear solid 8-foot wall and guard tower. And it ain't homeless person. Anti-terrorism measure. Transit centers are prime a-list targets for suicide bombers - a wall would keep a blast contained for the most part and a guard tower could watch for suspicious activity. Since it is new, it's probably best to build with those features already in place. |
Atwater Member Username: Atwater
Post Number: 110 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:41 pm: | |
good point |
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 388 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:49 pm: | |
Im curious to see how the Book Cadillac is going to deal with the crowds from the bus terminal, many of the street people who like to mill around it and the area will obviously go a block over to the Book area..Im not sure that is the crowd the hotel/condo wants hanging around outside, Should be interesting to see how this plays itself out. |
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce
Post Number: 766 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:51 pm: | |
I don't see the wall in the rendering... and haven't seen it in any of the previous renderings. It's supposed to encircle the entire site. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. |
Atwater Member Username: Atwater
Post Number: 111 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:55 pm: | |
Yeah I was also wondering where the wall that surrounds the whole site was in the rendering. I don't see the guard tower either. Why wouldn't they be in the rendering? |
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 5646 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 12:18 am: | |
"So they build a 12 ft. fence, and they just bring a 13 ft. ladder." Signed: New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, on the Southern USA Border. |
Rob_in_warren Member Username: Rob_in_warren
Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 9:40 am: | |
It's like the Opera house in Sydney, but for busses. |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 955 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:21 am: | |
If we could just get rid of the buses, we wouldn't have this problem. Nobody important rides the buses anyway. Also, they are a scourge on our nice neighborhoods because all the criminals ride the buses out to the nice places and commit very bad crimes. Get rid of the buses, no more crime. Simple as that. And then, without the buses, they could convert the new transit center to a drive-thru Cheesecake Factory or something. |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2246 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:22 am: | |
I don't get what the wall is supposed to be for. Will you need bus fare to enter the building? Is it an anti-terrorism measure? Will it surround the entire terminal? |
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle
Post Number: 259 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:27 am: | |
My guess is likely anti terrorism actually. Most likely a state or federal mandate. I also believe that the way it was described in the article most likely isnt how it will be literally represented. I have hope although honestly right now im thinking Berlin wall and guards with ak-47's ha. |
Spitty Member Username: Spitty
Post Number: 639 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:31 am: | |
Maybe they'll build an invisible electric fence. That way they can attach shock collars to the vagrants as they are captured. Once captured, they will be educated and set free. The collars will be a backup plan in case the education that we gave them doesn't work out. |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2248 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:36 am: | |
quote:I have hope although honestly right now im thinking Berlin wall and guards with ak-47's ha. Well, the National Guard stays posted at the entrance to Penn Station in NYC with automatic weapons 24/7... but still no 8 foot wall. |
Rob_in_warren Member Username: Rob_in_warren
Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:38 am: | |
Why select such a fancy design then hide it from view? Why do you need a wall around a place that has it's own police? Why not use a more classy iron gate around the facility? It would protect passengers from busses and riff-raff, and still give the place an open feel. |
The_ed Member Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1207 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:41 am: | |
As a public transportation user, I welcome the wall. It'll help keep those cold winds from freezing my ass while waiting for a bus. As far as the undesirables go, how are you gonna keep 'em out? Deal with it! There's people who are just trying to survive another day. The drug deals will happen wherever the money flashes. |
The_ed Member Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1208 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:48 am: | |
Swingline: "If we could just get rid of the buses, we wouldn't have this problem. Nobody important rides the buses anyway. Also, they are a scourge on our nice neighborhoods because all the criminals ride the buses out to the nice places and commit very bad crimes. Get rid of the buses, no more crime. Simple as that. And then, without the buses, they could convert the new transit center to a drive-thru Cheesecake Factory or something." What a ridiculous and unsensitive thing to say. I ride the bus with a guy who plays for the DSO. I've ridden with him for many years. There's also teachers, a couple of Med students and others just trying to get from here to there. I guess living in a box prevents you from seeing the outside world. Someone should take the lid off for you. |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 2834 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:51 am: | |
"So they build a 12 ft. fence, and they just bring a 13 ft. ladder." Easy solution...top the wall with barbed wire...that will look lovely |
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73
Post Number: 266 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:57 am: | |
The_ed, I'm pretty sure Swingline was joking buddy. |
Downtown_dave Member Username: Downtown_dave
Post Number: 221 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:02 am: | |
It's funny how "wound-up" people get here. Based on one quote from the architect and a fact added by the Model D reporter, has anyone bothered to seek a drawing or an understanding on where/how a wall will function or think through how it might be necessary for the safety of pedestrians and riders - a GOOD thing for the design? Instead, some of you have dissolved into debating the purpose and value of public transportation... Sheesh. |
Swingline Member Username: Swingline
Post Number: 957 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:06 am: | |
Andyguard, you are correct sir. |
The_ed Member Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1210 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:06 am: | |
Thanx Andyguard73 Sorry Swingline. It's been a hectic morning here at work. I've got my production done and am having to keep busy without looking like I need something to do. I'm being over-sensitive. Can't help it. I depend on public transportation as much as pot smokers depend on their connection(s). |
The_ed Member Username: The_ed
Post Number: 1211 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:06 am: | |
Thanx Andyguard73 Sorry Swingline. It's been a hectic morning here at work. I've got my production done and am having to keep busy without looking like I need something to do. I'm being over-sensitive. Can't help it. I depend on public transportation as much as pot smokers depend on their connection(s).
|
Scdetroit Member Username: Scdetroit
Post Number: 5 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 12:38 pm: | |
Clarification: There are some 8’ high, concrete walls, but they’re only on the building and they’re bases for much taller walls that are glass or terracotta and they don’t go around the 2.4 acre site. The tower is not a “security tower.” It’s a tower that has a security office in the base. |
Downtown_dave Member Username: Downtown_dave
Post Number: 222 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:02 pm: | |
Thank you! |
401don Member Username: 401don
Post Number: 84 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:34 pm: | |
Okay, nevermind then. |
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce
Post Number: 767 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 2:12 pm: | |
The question was finally answered... Thanks |