Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » 8 foot wall around bus terminal? « Previous Next »
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Matt_the_deuce
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Username: Matt_the_deuce

Post Number: 765
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I haven't heard of this or seen anything like it in the renderings... anyone have any info?

From Model D Media-

"The building foundation work has been completed and 80% of utility work is done. The concrete structure that has risen along Cass is a security tower. "It is a major element," says project architect Tushar Advani of Parsons Brinkerhoff. "It marks the entrance to the facility." There will also be an 8-foot wall that surrounds the entire 2.4-acre site."

http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/rptc12117.aspx
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1665
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Boy, they just don't get it. Instead of a welcoming, open transit center, they give us a guard tower and walls. Sheesh.
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Gsgeorge
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Username: Gsgeorge

Post Number: 357
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what!? what is this, alcatraz?
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 7062
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you ever spent much time in the Cadillac Square or Capitol Park centers, not such a bad idea.

Both those areas were open-air drug markets, and especially at Cadillac Square, I saw more than once, the benches used for some late night al-fresco sex.
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Gistok
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Post Number: 5807
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is that worse than "a cappella" sex? :-)
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Jams
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Post Number: 7065
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, if a Soprano is not involved. :-)
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Parkguy
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Username: Parkguy

Post Number: 159
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, judging from the renderings I've seen, there will be a bunch of bus pull-throughs surrounding the enclosed building, and you certainly don't want pedestrians crossing from every direction through the lanes. It seems that a wall is a good idea.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 6833
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They started to build that ugly building.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1666
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Tear down that wall!"
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Atwater
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Username: Atwater

Post Number: 105
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I, too, support the 8-foot surrounding wall and the guard tower. Have you ever seen some of the people who use this system? If we really want to build up a clean, safe and healthy downtown, these are necessary provisions.
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Detroitnerd
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Post Number: 1667
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ummm, if you want to build a clean, safe, healthy downtown, maybe you should get rid of the things that cause us to resort to fortified architecture.

Did we learn nothing from taking down the reinforced concrete RenCen berm? Downtowns are about foot traffic and pedestrian walkability.

Oh, I guess that won't work in Detroit. Keep building more moats! Higher walls! Bigger gates! Taller security towers! Security is just around the corner!
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Shark
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Post Number: 305
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like a good plan.

If they are able to keep the riff-raff out, maybe less people will abuse the new facility and more people will use the transit system.
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Atwater
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Username: Atwater

Post Number: 106
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitnerd,

Well hopefully the high walls and guard tower will do their job and contain all of the people who are "unclean, dangerous, or unhealthy", thereby making it possible for the rest of the area to promote "foot traffic and pedestrian walkability".. which is what you want, and which is what I want, as well. I just think that in order to be able to freely promote those things, first we need to have certain people off the streets and contained where they're supposed to be.

[message edited for formatting]

(Message edited by Atwater on November 26, 2007)
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Irish_mafia
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thinks its going to be an albatross the likes of the monkey bars.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 5346
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Detroitnerd,
Well hopefully the high walls and guard tower will do their job and contain all of the people who are "unclean, dangerous, or unhealthy", *thereby making it possible for the rest of the area to promote "foot traffic and pedestrian walkability"*.. which is what you want, and which is what I want, as well. I just think that in order to be able to freely promote those things, first we need to have certain people off the streets and contained where they're supposed to be.



And NY, Chicago, and LA does this so well...

Not a homeless person to be seen in the city...

(Message edited by Detroit_stylin on November 26, 2007)
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1668
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, cause that's what makes downtowns great: Keeping the riff-raff out and building walls.

Perennial Hamtramck mayoral candidate and local crank Richard Fabishak had a plank in his platform that was outrageous enough to make me chuckle. He proposed building a wall around Hamtramck.

Maybe he's on to something here. Evidently, walling off our "public" resources to keep out the public makes perfect sense.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1669
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I just think that in order to be able to freely promote those things, first we need to have certain people off the streets and contained where they're supposed to be."

^Proto-fascist garbage.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 862
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"beggars can't be choosers. Just be happy that there's some progress being made in our crappy transit system."
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Atwater
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Username: Atwater

Post Number: 107
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, maybe we shouldn't have any walls or guard towers.. maybe we should just leave these people alone and let them continue their current behavior- literally pissing (and sometimes shitting) all over the place. And verbally harassing people walking by. (And I don't have any crime statistics for Capitol Park, but I find it hard to imagine none were committed by such people).

But you know, maybe Detroitnerd is right. Don't build a wall. Instead, let's welcome all of these folks to wander back to their old stomping ground at Capitol Park, just a few blocks away, and they can welcome the new residents of The Griswold and the Book Cadillac.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 5348
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Better yet, why not build a wall to keep the likes of people like YOU out....

If you ask me you are worse than them...
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1670
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hahaha. Bingo, DS.
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Atwater
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Username: Atwater

Post Number: 108
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, Detroit_stylin, let's see. I come downtown to help improve the city. I care. I spend money down there. If I saw a piece of litter I could easily pick up and properly dispose of, I'd do so. I've called the police at times to notify them of problems, and I've been involved, in personal ways, for years, with efforts to clean up the city.

But I guess you'd rather have people down there who could care less about their surroundings and are the instigators of many of the problems in the first place. Great.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 5349
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

completely baseless and does not justify what you said about an entire subset of the city's population that you labeled ans 'dangerous'...
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1671
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, you care so much that you'd just like downtown to be reorganized as some gated community -- or Singapore. Pfft.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 865
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Atwater, Detroit_stylin's point (which I do agree) is that you can't just look down on everyone else and isolate yourself from them. These people will be around anytime and everywhere. You can't make them go anywhere. If anything, you should be trying to educate them and tell them why what they're doing is wrong instead of sending them to Mars.
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Royce
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought that building the transit center where it will be was the answer to getting the undesireables away from the Book Cadillac area and Campus Martius Park. An eight foot wall on top of that seems extreme.

(Message edited by royce on November 26, 2007)
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Detroit_stylin
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know right Royce...especially on a prominent corner such as that one there...
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Atwater
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Username: Atwater

Post Number: 109
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, I think my language was a little stronger than I had intended, because when I went to contrast my original "If we really want to build up a clean, safe and healthy downtown" with it's opposite, I also switched, at the same time, from talking about the city to talking about people. So instead of talking about "an unclean, dangerous and unhealth downtown", I used those adjectives for people. While I do think they apply for some of the people who use this system, which is why I support the wall and the guard tower, I began this conversation using the wording for how the city should and should not be, and that's really how I should have kept using it.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 2307
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anybody with a camera gonna take a photo of this monster?
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Detroit_stylin
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Post Number: 5351
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have seen and wondered what the big azz concrete structure they were putting up was...

Yeah I can kinda see that it is going to look like azz...
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Shark
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Username: Shark

Post Number: 306
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get a grip people, it isn't going to look like the Jackson Penitentiary. Take a look at the artist rendering, it will look fine.
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Digitalvision
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Post Number: 457
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I actually think only two words when I hear solid 8-foot wall and guard tower. And it ain't homeless person.

Anti-terrorism measure.

Transit centers are prime a-list targets for suicide bombers - a wall would keep a blast contained for the most part and a guard tower could watch for suspicious activity. Since it is new, it's probably best to build with those features already in place.
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Atwater
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Post Number: 110
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

good point
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Detroitbill
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Post Number: 388
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Im curious to see how the Book Cadillac is going to deal with the crowds from the bus terminal, many of the street people who like to mill around it and the area will obviously go a block over to the Book area..Im not sure that is the crowd the hotel/condo wants hanging around outside, Should be interesting to see how this plays itself out.
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Matt_the_deuce
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Username: Matt_the_deuce

Post Number: 766
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't see the wall in the rendering... and haven't seen it in any of the previous renderings. It's supposed to encircle the entire site.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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Atwater
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Post Number: 111
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Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah I was also wondering where the wall that surrounds the whole site was in the rendering. I don't see the guard tower either. Why wouldn't they be in the rendering?
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Jjaba
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Post Number: 5646
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 12:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"So they build a 12 ft. fence, and they just bring a 13 ft. ladder."

Signed:
New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, on the Southern USA Border.
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Rob_in_warren
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's like the Opera house in Sydney, but for busses.
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Swingline
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If we could just get rid of the buses, we wouldn't have this problem. Nobody important rides the buses anyway. Also, they are a scourge on our nice neighborhoods because all the criminals ride the buses out to the nice places and commit very bad crimes. Get rid of the buses, no more crime. Simple as that. And then, without the buses, they could convert the new transit center to a drive-thru Cheesecake Factory or something.
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Iheartthed
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't get what the wall is supposed to be for. Will you need bus fare to enter the building? Is it an anti-terrorism measure? Will it surround the entire terminal?
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Mdoyle
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Post Number: 259
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My guess is likely anti terrorism actually. Most likely a state or federal mandate. I also believe that the way it was described in the article most likely isnt how it will be literally represented. I have hope although honestly right now im thinking Berlin wall and guards with ak-47's ha.
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Spitty
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe they'll build an invisible electric fence. That way they can attach shock collars to the vagrants as they are captured. Once captured, they will be educated and set free. The collars will be a backup plan in case the education that we gave them doesn't work out.
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Iheartthed
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Post Number: 2248
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I have hope although honestly right now im thinking Berlin wall and guards with ak-47's ha.



Well, the National Guard stays posted at the entrance to Penn Station in NYC with automatic weapons 24/7... but still no 8 foot wall.
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Rob_in_warren
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Username: Rob_in_warren

Post Number: 12
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why select such a fancy design then hide it from view? Why do you need a wall around a place that has it's own police? Why not use a more classy iron gate around the facility? It would protect passengers from busses and riff-raff, and still give the place an open feel.
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The_ed
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Post Number: 1207
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a public transportation user, I welcome the wall. It'll help keep those cold winds from freezing my ass while waiting for a bus. As far as the undesirables go, how are you gonna keep 'em out? Deal with it! There's people who are just trying to survive another day. The drug deals will happen wherever the money flashes.
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The_ed
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Username: The_ed

Post Number: 1208
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Swingline:
"If we could just get rid of the buses, we wouldn't have this problem. Nobody important rides the buses anyway. Also, they are a scourge on our nice neighborhoods because all the criminals ride the buses out to the nice places and commit very bad crimes. Get rid of the buses, no more crime. Simple as that. And then, without the buses, they could convert the new transit center to a drive-thru Cheesecake Factory or something."

What a ridiculous and unsensitive thing to say. I ride the bus with a guy who plays for the DSO. I've ridden with him for many years. There's also teachers, a couple of Med students and others just trying to get from here to there.
I guess living in a box prevents you from seeing the outside world. Someone should take the lid off for you.
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 2834
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"So they build a 12 ft. fence, and they just bring a 13 ft. ladder."

Easy solution...top the wall with barbed wire...that will look lovely
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Andyguard73
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Username: Andyguard73

Post Number: 266
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The_ed, I'm pretty sure Swingline was joking buddy.
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Downtown_dave
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's funny how "wound-up" people get here. Based on one quote from the architect and a fact added by the Model D reporter, has anyone bothered to seek a drawing or an understanding on where/how a wall will function or think through how it might be necessary for the safety of pedestrians and riders - a GOOD thing for the design?

Instead, some of you have dissolved into debating the purpose and value of public transportation... Sheesh.
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andyguard, you are correct sir.
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The_ed
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Post Number: 1210
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanx Andyguard73
Sorry Swingline. It's been a hectic morning here at work. I've got my production done and am having to keep busy without looking like I need something to do.
I'm being over-sensitive. Can't help it. I depend on public transportation as much as pot smokers depend on their connection(s).

sorry[1].jpg
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The_ed
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Post Number: 1211
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanx Andyguard73
Sorry Swingline. It's been a hectic morning here at work. I've got my production done and am having to keep busy without looking like I need something to do. I'm being over-sensitive. Can't help it. I depend on public transportation as much as pot smokers depend on their connection(s).



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Scdetroit
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Username: Scdetroit

Post Number: 5
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Clarification: There are some 8’ high, concrete walls, but they’re only on the building and they’re bases for much taller walls that are glass or terracotta and they don’t go around the 2.4 acre site.

The tower is not a “security tower.” It’s a tower that has a security office in the base.
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Downtown_dave
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you!
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401don
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Username: 401don

Post Number: 84
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay, nevermind then.
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Matt_the_deuce
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Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The question was finally answered...

Thanks

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