 
Paintnprint
Member
Username: Paintnprint
Post Number: 28
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 1:09 pm: |    |
Eriedearie,
Yes.
And I have something to say about it at evey turn.
Who wouldn't?
Good Lord!
Do I really have to live on this planet with these people who piss in my bowl?
I suppose. Sadly.
Isn't there something much better?
I would hope.
Koko |
Paintnprint
Member
Username: Paintnprint
Post Number: 29
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 1:16 pm: | |
P.S. Can't understand the fury which should be sent South and North.
How DARE he?
I didn't open this can of worms, but I'll certainly go fishing with it.
Windsor can't take care of their own?
HELP! from another country, and pissed when they don't respond?
What did Canada ever do for us?
Don't you people live in Detroit, very near the Canadian border?
And some cheap Canadian expecting far too much from us?
What did Canada ever do for us?
Koko
Grew up near there. Lived through it. |
Paintnprint
Member
Username: Paintnprint
Post Number: 30
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 1:21 pm: | |
Johnlodge,
You might as well make excuses for Ebonics.
Good English is good English.
Period.
Koko |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 9965
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 1:55 pm: | |
I don't think Paintnprint is a guy. I really think he is koko the monkey who learned sign language.
I would like you to name the 5,000 things when american swent running to save someone. You said you could do it so go ahead. Here's your big chance koko the monkey. |
Raggedclaws
Member
Username: Raggedclaws
Post Number: 102
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 2:23 pm: | |
Why Lowell, oh why ?
Another thread gone awry.
Border dangerous.
That's haiku. |
Walkerpub
Member
Username: Walkerpub
Post Number: 191
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 4:04 pm: | |
From a Canuck to Paintnprint:
It was impossible to get a conversation going, everybody was talking too much. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3834
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 5:12 pm: | |
"Johnlodge,
You might as well make excuses for Ebonics.
Good English is good English.
Period.
Koko"
Period.
It is a sentence fragment.
Good English, I believe,
is the opposite of Evil English.
They may exist, but don't tell the Brits.
Proper English is a debatable concept.
Webster may know it, but don't tell the Brits. |
Fjw718
Member
Username: Fjw718
Post Number: 165
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 5:48 pm: | |
So, living in detroit before 9/11 i remember being able to go over to windsor for lunch and still make it back to work in time to not go over your allotted lunch break.
My first time back in the city was Memorial Day weekend 2003. My girlfriend and I take the bridge over to spend a couple of hours in windsor and show the border guard our NY State Drivers lisc. (Michigan BTW hated my NYS Drivers lisc. Bartenders would not serve me and the mgm grand denied us entry due to the "Fake" look of our lisc.) The guard gets extremely angry and asks us for passports or Birth Certificates. I tell him this is my first time crossing since i used to live in Detroit and this is how we used to do it. He yells "SIR YOU ARE NOT TAKING AN INTERNATIONAL BORDER CROSSING SERIOUSLY ENOUGH" and tells us to get off line and go for inspection. We get our rental car torn apart, and it turns out my Girlfriend had an arrest in the US Army while serving in Germany that prevents us from entering Canada. We are told if we EVER come back to Canada we will be arrested and Jailed for a long time.
So now, we dont have some form stating that we were in Canada, and we have to go back to the US side. They ask us what happened and when we tell them we got tossed from Canada they order us off line. Again, tear apart the car with the Dogs and the whole nine. They then order us inside to "Answer a couple of questions" So we go inside to a little waiting room where I see a bathroom. I take a leak and upon exiting some Huge lady tells me "SIR HOW DARE YOU USE THE BATHROOM WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. WHATEVER CONTRABAND YOU HAVE YOU PROBABLY JUST FLUSHED DOWN THE TOILET. I CAN TELL YOU DID BECAUSE YOU BOTH LOOK LIKE RAVERS AND ARE PROBABLY HERE FOR THE BIG RAVE (DEMF). FUCK THIS, JUST GET BACK IN YOUR CAR AND BE GONE"
and with that she ran our Drivers Lisc. and let us get in our car and leave.
They were total assholes on both sides of the border. When my friend did not have the proper paperwork to enter Montreal they told him he could stay for one night for a bachelors party but that they were going to hold his passport. |
Aiw
Member
Username: Aiw
Post Number: 6451
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 5:52 pm: | |
quote:They were total assholes on both sides of the border. When my friend did not have the proper paperwork to enter Montreal they told him he could stay for one night for a bachelors party but that they were going to hold his passport.
Uhh... Actually that sounds like they were pretty cool. I doubt if the roles were revered a US Customs agent would allow you in for the night holding only your passport as a guarantee. |
Jams
Member
Username: Jams
Post Number: 7061
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 6:14 pm: | |
From the reports my cousins and their friends gave us, Canadian Customs decided they had a cash cow this past weekend.
It looked as if every car from Canada returning was pulled over for secondary inspections.
We're guessing Customs just added up the receipts and collected a 10% flat-rate duty on the US purchases.
One of our friends did cheat a bit, she had asked us to pick something up for her on Wednesday, which we did.
Since they didn't scan her license and her daughter was driving, she was able to use that receipt as proof of an extended stay in the US, exempting her from the duties of her $400 in purchases. |
Eriedearie
Member
Username: Eriedearie
Post Number: 228
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 8:14 pm: | |
Quote:
"What did Canada ever do for us?"
Paint - The Canadians have fought beside the Americans in WWI, WWII, the Korean Conflict, etc. and they are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq right now.
Please explain what you mean when you write of South and North. Do you consider where you are as being smack dab in the middle? Or are you confused about where Canada (Windsor) actually fits in geographically?
The last I heard ALL medical personnel care about healing the sick. Doesn't matter to them what side of the border they hail from. Why does it matter so much to you?
If it were one of your loved ones (or you for that matter) that was suffering medically and in a location where the procedure required was not available, wouldn't you hope they would get attention from the nearest possible source?
Do you think for one minute if there was a disaster fire raging in Detroit that the Windsor Fire Department would not cross the border to help out if needed? Do you not think we should be neighborly? Shame on you. I bet you make a terrible neighbor to have living next door. When is the last time you said hello and smiled to someone on your street or sent something you baked in your own kitchen to a sick neighbor? |
Fjw718
Member
Username: Fjw718
Post Number: 166
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:23 pm: | |
aiw - sorry i didnt put that in better english, a hangover will do that. I was using that as a separate case of when the border guards were cool at a separate crossing......i meant to say the windsor/detroit guards were very unpleasant folks |
Dhugger
Member
Username: Dhugger
Post Number: 256
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 10:13 pm: | |
Haiku poetry = a Japanese poem of SEVENTEEN SYLLABLES.
I dare > Paintnprint < to use only Haiku's in all future posts. |
Aiw
Member
Username: Aiw
Post Number: 6452
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:33 pm: | |
No problem fjw... I couldn't agree more. As I said too the US Customs guys in Vancouver were very respectful too...
Eriederie, just to set the record straight we are not in Iraq, only Afganistan, and for what it's worth we were in WWI & WWII years before the US... But it all worked out in the end  |
Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell
Post Number: 4328
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:44 pm: | |
And therein lies the source of my rants. We have been at peace for 192 years and fought together in wars since.
Now why can't we cross the border and go from one part of our city to another with the ease French and German citizens do, they who massacred millions of each other citizens during the same period of time?
Huh? Eh? Riddle me that. This thread should not exist. |
Eriedearie
Member
Username: Eriedearie
Post Number: 232
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:56 pm: | |
Aiw - You're right about Iraq. I am mistaken there. Regardless, the Canadians are fighting and getting killed in Afghanistan for the same reason as the troops in Iraq. I feel we're all in this together.
Anyway, thanks for keeping me honest! |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 608
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 12:52 am: | |
Quote: "Now why can't we cross the border and go from one part of our city to another with the ease French and German citizens do,"
Thats a good question, just what is or what has been so sensitive about the border between us and Canada? They pose no threat to us. I can see it a bit now, but not seven years ago and earlier. Is it policies adopted during WWII and never relaxed? Or is it due to our propensity for high crime rates and a rather loose reputation around the world?
The Mexican border is the same way.
A sort of funny, regarding the border. Once out on my boat, going under the Grosse Isle pay-bridge. There was a young latino looking boy with a backpack scaling across in the ironwork of the bridge, out of sight from the bridge-keeper. I got the bridge-keeper's attention and he reached over the side and apprehended the boy. If he was trying to get to Canada, he had a long swim in store. He could've been killed if the bridge opened at the wrong time. |
Fastcarsfreedom
Member
Username: Fastcarsfreedom
Post Number: 199
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:41 am: | |
Quote: "We're guessing Customs just added up the receipts and collected a 10% flat-rate duty on the US purchases."
The operative part of this is that you are in fact, guessing. Goods that are sourced from a NAFTA country (US, MEX, CAN) attract a big old zero percent duty rate. The only thing the vast majority of Canadian shoppers pay on import is sales tax. Where did you come up with 10%?
Quote: "One of our friends did cheat a bit, she had asked us to pick something up for her on Wednesday, which we did."
Good for you, you cheated the system, walk tall, walk proud...you got away with the big steal.
In all seriousness here--producing documents to prove where you were born and where you live is not rocket science.
Lowell--I have great respect for you, and this forum, in spite of our political differences. As "nice" as it would be to have free passage--I don't believe you are thinking about this from anywhere even approaching a law enforcement perspective. The differences in a few key areas of criminal/penal and immigration law make erasure of border inspection an outright impossibility. The Canadian government would not be willing to open it's borders to the unfettered flow of firearms northward, any moreso than the U.S. government would be willing to allow "BC Bud" to begin flowing without restriction southward. North America is not Europe (thankfully)--border issues in the E.U. were more easily solved because most of the countries involved shared leftist/socialist policies on immigration and fewer major differences in penal codes.
As for Nainrouge, congratulations on your "stream of unconciousness" writing style--you are truly a pioneer. Thankfully, it appears your efforts to derail the intelligent debate here have been thwarted. |
Nainrouge
Member
Username: Nainrouge
Post Number: 401
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:03 pm: | |
It was humor. You might try it sometime.
Besides, I would argue that it was Paint that caused the derrailment (trainwreck).
(Message edited by nainrouge on November 27, 2007) |
Aiw
Member
Username: Aiw
Post Number: 6453
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:09 pm: | |
quote:North America is not Europe (thankfully)
Speak for yourself. What's thankful about being over here? We work longer hours with much less time off, and generally have a very different way of life.
Anyone who's spent any amount of time in Europe wouldn't be thankful we're not like them.
I for one am not. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3846
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:15 pm: | |
"What's thankful about being over here?"
Really?
I'm surprised Aiw, you can't think of any reasons to be thankful in North America? You seem so interested in its history and culture. Why not move to Europe then if you wholeheartedly like it more? You should be where you're happy. |
Nainrouge
Member
Username: Nainrouge
Post Number: 403
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:31 pm: | |
As a person who also has experience living in Europe and can sympathize with Aiw, I just want to say that the attitude of "well, if you don't like it here then get the hell out" is rather childish. There are many reasons why a person chooses to live where they do - family, job, children, family business, etc.
To point out that there are some things that they are doing better inevitably leads to accusations of being anti-american, traitor, etc. Better to stick our heads in the sand and whistle "God Bless America" than to recognize the problems and see if there are best practices that we could emulate? |
Aiw
Member
Username: Aiw
Post Number: 6455
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:41 pm: | |
Easy John, I see where you're coming from, and what I did post came out wrong.
I'm not talking about moving to Bulgaria or Romainia or anything, I was speaking of Western Europe.
England, France, Italy, Spain, they all seem to have a better quality of life. Urban cities, are well lived in and not neglected. You have everything (generally) within walking distance, socailaized medicine, great and efficient public transportation, a fast and efficient (England excluded )rail network allowing you to travel quickly, cheaply and easily.
The pace of life is more relaxed, food is less genetically modified, and 5 weeks of vacation to start with doesn't sound so bad.
As for moving to Europe, I could if I wanted to. I am a dual citizen with British (and as a result E.U.) citizenship. However it's not quite a simple as packing up and moving... Family is the primary reason to not leave, as well as (outside of moving to England) the small problem of my wife being able to work. England offers a spouse visa that would allow her to work, and be eligible for British Citizenship after three years, but not so on the continent.
If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would pack up tomorrow and head overseas Thursday. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3849
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:50 pm: | |
I also didn't mean to sound like "if you don't like it, leave!". I was actually curious as to why you wouldn't live there if you liked it more. But your reasons make sense! |
Fastcarsfreedom
Member
Username: Fastcarsfreedom
Post Number: 200
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 4:05 pm: | |
Quote: "Anyone who's spent any amount of time in Europe wouldn't be thankful we're not like them."
Of course! Pro-military rednecks don't travel. Thanks for the reminder--sometimes I forget that only socialists can experience world travel and experience other cultures. What gave me away--was it my Cabela's card?
Europe's a beautiful and diverse place, and I loved visiting (I've left the continent--can you believe it?). The grass is indeed greener if you turn a blind eye to the city parks full of drug addicts in Lucerne, the "diversity" of huge slums of unassimilated immigrants in Leeds--or even the riots going on as we speak in suburban Paris. Saying you prefer a different cultural or societal bend is one thing--but painting a Disney-esque image of Europe as some valhalla of urbanity and civility is nonsense and does nothing to advance your argument.
Have you never heard of Tesco? |
Nainrouge
Member
Username: Nainrouge
Post Number: 408
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 4:29 pm: | |
Quote: painting a Disney-esque image of Europe as some valhalla of urbanity and civility is nonsense and does nothing to advance your argument
Hmm, I must have missed that. I only read that Aiw was saying that Europe has walkable cities, socialized medicine and public transportation. I think describing that as "Disney-esque" or "Valhalla or urbanity" is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
P.S. By the way, Valhalla is the version of heaven in Norse mythology where warriors who are slain gloriously in battle may join Odin in the final battle against the giants on the plains of Asgard. Not sure where the "urbanity" part is appropriate there. |
Fastcarsfreedom
Member
Username: Fastcarsfreedom
Post Number: 201
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 5:05 pm: | |
My point Nainrouge was that the picture was painted was a juxtaposition of Europe's supposed "positives" vs North America's "negatives" while ignoring the rest of reality.
And thanks for correcting me on my use of "valhalla"--I'll drop it from my vernacular immediately--where would my hillbilly ass be without the intelligentsia to educate me?
Last time I checked N.A. also had walkable cities, public transportation and, at least in part, socialized medicine. |
Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick
Post Number: 5188
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 5:15 pm: | |
So, are Swedish chicks really all they're made out to be? |
Aiw
Member
Username: Aiw
Post Number: 6456
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 8:35 pm: | |
quote:The grass is indeed greener if you turn a blind eye to the city parks full of drug addicts in Lucerne
And what's Cass Park?
quote:Last time I checked N.A. also had walkable cities, public transportation
Far fewer than Europe.
Please note that I claimed efficent public transport. You can pretend that cities like Windsor and Detroit have public transport, but it's hardly good enough for you to give up your car.
I can fly into a City like London or Paris or Berlin, and walk from the airport terminal to a public transport line that will take me into any of those cities.
Outside of a small number of N.A. cities (Portland, OR, Vancouver BC [Under Construction], and a few others) you sure can't do that here. |
Nainrouge
Member
Username: Nainrouge
Post Number: 411
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 8:36 pm: | |
Quote: My point Nainrouge was that the picture was painted was a juxtaposition of Europe's supposed "positives" vs North America's "negatives" while ignoring the rest of reality.
Uh, actually there was no picture painted of any juxtaposition. Actually, Aiw was answering the question about why he would or would not move to Europe, not writing an essay on the relative benefits and disadvantages of each country. That didn't stop you from taking the opportunity to wave the flag though.
What cities in the US are walkable? I can only think of one that I know of - Boston. Of course you have to be a freakin millionaire to live anywhere in the "walkable" sections of Boston. On the other hand, I am only aware of one unwalkable European city - Bochum, Germany. It was rebuilt after the war to be a "modern" city and was modeled after US cities.
You have certain sections of the US that have public transportation, but no reliable and convenient public transportation networks between cities. Amtrack is gasping its last breath and was never that great to start with.
"Socialized medicine" in the US is a joke. Have you ever been on Medicare/Medicaid? Not to mention that you have to be poor or go broke to get it.
So, I guess you had better check again. The US has many strengths, but this list doesn't represent any of them. |
Fastcarsfreedom
Member
Username: Fastcarsfreedom
Post Number: 202
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 9:49 pm: | |
Sorry, but the argument was exactly as I portrayed it--in other words--Europe is paradise because the cities are walkable, there is efficient public transit and there is socialized medicine. Every other point of argument is ignored and livability is reduced to those three elements.
I've never been on Medicare/Medicaid in the U.S.--so I have no comment on that point. Again, speaking in a North American context, Canada has a system of socialized medicine--for better or worse--and that was my point. The "Europe is better" argument is--well--as old as North America--or at least European colonization of North America. It may be that for an individual the European lifestyle, culture and aesthetic are preferable--I have no bone to pick with that...that's an opinion.
This whole argument started because I was arguing that the "European" model when it comes to border security is not attainable in North America--and that is because North America and Europe are so different--I think on that point we'd agree...vastly different places culturally and politically.
The broader concern for me in the context of this particular thread is how exclusive and closed-minded I find the vocal core on the left of the political spectrum--at least in this particular forum. I have always been open-minded and respectful and willing to listen to the viewpoints of others--including those I disagree with. This schoolyard approach of crossing arms and stomping feet and constantly telling those on the opposite side of the spectrum that they are wrong does nothing to advance the argument--and I might add, doesn't make you any more 'right' in your viewpoints. Why even argue when you could just post "I'm right and you're wrong--so there" everytime you see something you disagree with? It would save you a lot of time and energy. |
Nainrouge
Member
Username: Nainrouge
Post Number: 413
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:26 pm: | |
So your definition of closed minded and childish is anyone who disagrees with you? Personally, I find references to your hillbilly ass and your Cabelas card rather childish. So is calling anyone a socialist who happens to criticize the US. (Is that your concept of respectful?) But that is just my closed minded opinion.
(Message edited by nainrouge on November 27, 2007) |
Fastcarsfreedom
Member
Username: Fastcarsfreedom
Post Number: 203
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 1:10 am: | |
Hold up a mirror.
As someone who is decided right-of-center in my politics, I have always been the first one to call out my own biases--I've done it many times here and will continue to do so. I come here, I share my opinions--and read the opinions of others. I come here and I enjoy the discourse--that is despite the fact (or perhaps because) I would argue the vast majority of prolific posters here differ from me in their political views--I'm okay with that--I enjoy it.
Your posts however, are indicitive of the elitist attitude that so often seems to taint posts here. You call me childish--you have no clue who I am, what level of education I've attained or what books I've read. Just because I'm a conservative, it seems, the assumption is that I'm a lower order species...at least in your eyes--by the cynical sneer that seems to accompany your posts in response to my own assertions. I don't recall every specifically saying anyone who critiques the U.S. is a socialist--maybe re-read my posts a little more dispassionately and you'll see that my references to socialism were in regard to the European political system moreso than anything else.
If indeed you were calling out your bias by admitting that you're closed minded--congratulations, it's a start.
And seriously, for those who fawn over Europe's cities--have you heard of Tesco? Or Carrefour? Or Asda? Large format mass merchandisers having great success building big suburban discount stores in the suburbs of European cities.
I never intended judgement on European livibility or urban design--ignoring the fact that most of urban Europe predates North America (and internal combustion engines) by centuries.
This was a thread about border security? |
Aiw
Member
Username: Aiw
Post Number: 6458
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 8:45 am: | |
quote:And seriously, for those who fawn over Europe's cities--have you heard of Tesco? Or Carrefour? Or Asda? Large format mass merchandisers having great success building big suburban discount stores in the suburbs of European cities.
But at the same time there are neighborhood Tesco's and Sainsbury's on the high street within walking distance of a large population base.
There is more foot traffic in those urban locations that there is at any North American Sprawl-Mart.
For the record Asda is owned by Wal-Mart and has not achieved the level of success in the UK that they have in North America.
http://www.iht.com/articles/20 05/03/11/business/asda.php
http://www.asdawatch.org/index .asp
... now back to the Border talk! |
Nainrouge
Member
Username: Nainrouge
Post Number: 415
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 9:05 am: | |
I guess I must apologize for my "elitist attitude". I will try to pander to your inferiority complex in all future posts.
quote:I don't recall every specifically saying anyone who critiques the U.S. is a socialist
Hmm.
quote:Thanks for the reminder--sometimes I forget that only socialists can experience world travel and experience other cultures. What gave me away--was it my Cabela's card?
quote:no clue who I am, what level of education I've attained or what books I've read
Well maybe this is an indication:
quote:Pro-military redneck
quote:hillbilly ass
If I truly had an elitist attitude, by the way - I would have pointed out a number of posts ago that "vernacular" refers to the common language of a people or region. For example, "carbonated beverages" are "pop" in the Michigan vernacular. Therefore, an individual cannot have a vernacular. The vernacular belongs to the group of whom the individual is a member, therefore you cannot drop "Valhalla" from your vernacular. You can, however, drop Valhalla from your vocabulary.
I would never mention that however - that would be childish.
(Message edited by nainrouge on November 28, 2007) |
Steelers
Member
Username: Steelers
Post Number: 1064
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 11:30 am: | |
quote:"Our Nazi Border Crossing"
That's a little extreme of an analogy, considering you'd be imprisoned or killed
if you didn't have your proper papers to enter Nazi Germany.
Be realistic and compare it to the US...
We just tell you to turn around, or follow you to cause inconvenience. |
Fastcarsfreedom
Member
Username: Fastcarsfreedom
Post Number: 204
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 4:03 pm: | |
You deserve credit for your clever editing.
I'm not going to make any further comments about you--or your method of 'argument'--you've done a fine job showing everyone what you're about all on your own.
Didn't someone say "let's get back to the border?"--let's do that. |
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