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Archive through November 19, 2007Detroitrise30 11-19-07  12:22 am
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 380
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is frustrating that people will post misinformation when accurate information is so readily accessible online. According to 2005 estimates, NYC's population was 8,213,839. That's up from 7.3 million in 1990, which means that in fifteen years, New York City has gained about the same number of people that Detroit has lost in the last fifty years.

Regardless of whether you removed the safest boroughs, New York City would still have a crime rate significantly lower than that of Detroit. In the entire city last year, there were not many more murders than in Detroit, despite the fact that the city has 8x as many people.

Before anyone starts dumping on me, I want to note I am a huge fan of Detroit, and I think these studies are completely unhelpful, and basically kick these cities when they are already down. At the same time, I am a fan of New York, and it is frustrating that people assume New York must have awful crime because it is New York. In fact, New York did a great deal in the 1990s to combat crime, and it worked, and that is in many ways responsible for the city's resurgence. Detroit needs to work to do the same.
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Karl_jr
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Username: Karl_jr

Post Number: 172
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't worry it's all lies See:

Detroit Police Department

NEWS RELEASE

Mayor office of public information
Kwame M. Kilpatrick 2nd deputy chief james e. tate


Chief of Police
Ella m. Bully-Cummings november 18, 2007

Criminologists criticize City Rankings
Many Questions Surrounding Data Comparison

DETROIT - A soon to be released report ranking the city of Detroit as the nation’s most dangerous city is being met with criticism from national criminologists, the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI), as well as city residents regarding the methods used to compare statistics. "These rankings represent an irresponsible misuse of the data and do groundless harm to many communities," said American Society of Criminology President Michael Tonry, professor of law and public policy at the University of Minnesota. "They also work against a key goal of our society, which is a better understanding of crime-related issues by both scientists and the public."

The report also fails to place the data in its proper context. For example, a snapshot of crime statistics complied by the Detroit Police Department from January 1 - August 31, 2007 reveals that over 76 percent of homicide victims in the city had prior contact with law enforcement. Department investigations also indicate that at least 60 percent of shootings occurring in the city have had a narcotic nexus. Analysis such as this refutes the notion that overall crime in the city is random and provides residents and visitors with an opportunity to truly understand crime data.

“Every year this organization sends out a press release with big bold lettering that labels a certain city as ‘Most Dangerous, USA’,” said Detroit Police Chief Ella M. Bully-Cummings. “Attached to the organization’s press release are instructions on how to purchase the complete report. It really makes you wonder if the organization is truly concerned with evaluating crime or increasing their profit. With crime experts across the country routinely denouncing the findings, I believe the answer is clear.”

Another questionable aspect of the organization’s report is the comparison of cities with vastly disproportionate population totals. Several of the country’s major cities were also excluded from the comparison for various reasons. These factors alone present enough obscurity in data collection to challenge the integrity of the group’s findings.



For further information, please contact the Office of Public Information at 313-596-2200.
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Iaintgotnostyle
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Username: Iaintgotnostyle

Post Number: 233
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please "where can I buy mace or pepper spray thread " in regards to this subject
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English
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Username: English

Post Number: 604
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*rolls eyes*

Was in NYC this weekend. While waiting on a friend, into a rough character but talked to him. (My danger-radar wasn't going off.) He found out I was from Detroit and flinched with respect.

So what else is new?

My freshman roommate bought locks for all of her things when she heard she was roomming with a girl from Detroit.

So what else is new?

Yes, it is crime. However, think about why it is in the media and the elites' best interests to "tell it like it is" (rolling eyes again) and demonize Detroit.
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Lakesuperior
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Username: Lakesuperior

Post Number: 207
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i like gawker.com's take on the list:

"The annual list, compiled from FBI crime statistics, helps reinforce the cycle of poverty, white flight, and neglect that is killing post-industrial America while the rich create unsustainable fantasy worlds on the coasts. And it provides a nice way for a news anchor to fill up 45 seconds."
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English
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Username: English

Post Number: 606
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ Lakesuperior, AWESOME quote and my thoughts exactly.

Detroit will be just fine in about 25 years. That is because these "desirable" coastal and SunBelt locations will be either scorched or under water. Then they'll come here and try to price our a**es out. *shrug* Give me my unfashionable Rust Belt any day in this uncertain 21st century world.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 775
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Brenda

Detroit isnt the Murder Capital

its New Orleans:"

I heard is was the city of Brotherly Hate(Philly).
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 567
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some people believe that the discrimination of
the 1950's no longer exist when it comes to riding a bus. They are wrong.

Quote

Redford is an important barrier between Livonia and Detroit.

End of Quote

Coming soon, a new website documenting the Civil Rights Act of 1964 violations of the Livonia Opt. Out.

(Message edited by Trainman on November 19, 2007)
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Ypsirocks
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Username: Ypsirocks

Post Number: 36
Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oakland number four!! woo hoo!!

54th and Market, North Pole. Oakland, CA
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Detroitbill
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Username: Detroitbill

Post Number: 383
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The negative publicity generated from a story like this is very damaging. Last year St. Louis won the title,, this year Detroit won it and St. Louis "dropped" to Number 2. The score this year was Detroit 407, St. Louis 406. Such a silly measurement causes major problems not only to the psyche of outsiders but even its own metropolitan citizens. So if Detroit scored a "405" and got a second place everything would be ok ?? I think once again we like to hit ourselves as hard as we can when things like this happens. I asked a client who lives in St. Louis what happened there when they were first last year. He said most people in the area could really care less. Yet many here seem to pounce upon it as something to negate any progress made. It all doesnt add up to alot of sense. Its pretty basic here, stay away from crime ridden areas, live in a safe enviroment and practice basic safety skills and you will most likely be quite fine. Never had a problem in 18 years and I walk around Downtown day and evening time, live in a safe highrise co-op where my car and I are safe and dont hang in areas known for high crime. Life is very enjoyable here if you just use some common sense.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 420
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"When all of metro-Detroit comes together as one, then the nation will cease to condemn us... "
THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN -- Detroit nor the burbs will let it!! NEVER NEVER NEVER!
Detroitej72: Surely you jest! LOL you must be new to Detroit? No other city is like this. NONE (if Im wrong on this, Im sure it wont take long for one of our friendly forumers to point that out.) If I am wrong on this, please tell me which city beats Detroit (and burbs) on HATRED for each other. I still say when the race war begins, 8 mile will be the front line and Detroit will be the explosion.

Please keep in mind that New Orleans witholds statistics till the end of the year. Can anyone else find any 2007 stats on N.O.? Im sure they are WAY WAY ahead of the D. this year.


I just came back from moving a friend from there. I sure saw a lot of Uhauls still heading south.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 1489
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hold on a second. Gotta address something Wazootyman said earlier:
quote:

The Toronto Star has solved the mystery of our population decline:

"Detroit was pegged the U.S. murder capital in the 1980s and has seen nearly 1 million people killed since 1950, according to the Census Bureau."

That's about 48 people a day...

http://www.thestar.com/News/ar ticle/277632


Uh. What? Did the Star edit their article, or did you misread/misrepresent it? It currently says:
quote:

Detroit was pegged the U.S. murder capital in the 1980s and has lost nearly 1 million people since 1950, according to the Census Bureau.



There have been nowhere near 1 million murdered in Detroit in 50 years. That's ridiculous, and I'm surprised no one mentioned this earlier. Shame on the Star, if that's really what they wrote.
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Brenda
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Username: Brenda

Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kellyroad: I swam at Heilmann's from 69-74 when I attended WSU and worked full time.

I am looking forward to coming back to Michigan Thursday thru the weekend to be with my family and friends!
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Elsuperbob
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Username: Elsuperbob

Post Number: 91
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a bit on CNN with Ella Bully-Cummings and a guy from CQ.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/vid eo/us/2007/11/19/intv.dangerou s.cities.cnn
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1935
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

There have been nowhere near 1 million murdered in Detroit in 50 years.



Looking in The Detroit Almanac, there have been 23,394 homicides in Detroit from the years 1920-2000. That's like the population of Ferndale or Birmingham being wiped out.

The last year when the total was less than 300 was 1967; below 200 was in 1965.
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Caldog
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Username: Caldog

Post Number: 20
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Focusonthed
The Star article said LOST, not murdered.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 684
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Something to say to someone in another city, I am from Detroit, most people know not to mess with you.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2228
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Uh. What? Did the Star edit their article, or did you misread/misrepresent it? It currently says:



I read it earlier when he first posted it. It did say "murdered"...
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1168
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Coming soon, a new website documenting the Civil Rights Act of 1964 violations of the Livonia Opt. Out.



wow, livonia opted out of the civil rights act? i didn't know you could do that, but i'm not surprised.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1169
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Something to say to someone in another city, I am from Detroit, most people know not to mess with you.



i disagree. it's not intimidating. in fact, i know plenty of places where trumpeting that you're from detroit will quickly invite a challenge.

i wouldn't back down simply because someone said they were from the bronx or compton; it just doesn't work that way.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 779
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thecarl, these are the same people that are upset because our region is turning into the right direction.
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Ray
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Username: Ray

Post Number: 1039
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, I thought that article was about as positive a spin on it as the city could hope for. the basic thesis was, look at this fear mongering publication smearing troubled cities with irresponsible and misleading statitsics.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1170
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"The annual list, compiled from FBI crime statistics, helps reinforce the cycle of poverty, white flight, and neglect that is killing post-industrial America while the rich create unsustainable fantasy worlds on the coasts. And it provides a nice way for a news anchor to fill up 45 seconds."



it's too simple to blame the list for anything. detroit needs family structure first, neighborhood structure next, and community structure overall. for this to happen, detroit needs leadership that is inspiring, invigorating, and ethical.

sure, "the list" will make headlines - but children being killed in crossfire, and in cold bold; children themselves committing murder, and the city's administration being constantly immersed in scandal and multi-million-dollar payouts? the city burning itself down over and over again, and the uaw going on strike? a business owner killed in a price war? these are the headlines that *really* hurt detroit.

we should be less upset with the list, and more upset that enough conditions exist where people wouldn't be largely surprised by the results.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1171
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Thecarl, these are the same people that are upset because our region is turning into the right direction.



detroitrise, while i may not always agree with you, i have a deep admiration for your spirit, resolve, and optimism.

i have a pretty far-ranging circle of acquaintances from throughout the region and state, and have traveled quite a bit throughout the united states. i have yet to meet anybody who demonstrates the mindset you describe: people who might be upset that the region is turning in the right direction.

maybe it's just me.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 780
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see what you mean Thecarl. That was basically a brief review of Quicken's move. I heard that the mayor of Livonia and many workers were highly upset by Gilbert's decision, but I still can't understand why if you think in a long term mindset. The only way they think of it as a regional gain is if we return to our former glory (or another Chicago).

(Message edited by DetroitRise on November 19, 2007)
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Alan55
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Username: Alan55

Post Number: 755
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"...and the uaw going on strike?"

You have it all right except for this phrase, Thecarl. A union going on strike is no more surprising, or shocking, than any other business occurrence. It's been decades since there was any violent or militant strikes.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 1491
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Focusonthed
The Star article said LOST, not murdered.


Yes, I'm aware. That's my point. Apparently, when first published, it did not. Shame on the Star.
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Kirby
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Username: Kirby

Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey
I think the most dangerous city is the one your having a problem with - R I G H T , N O W -

I grew up in Detroit, it always had areas to avoid, and always will...
I've been in the L.A. area for 26 years, TRUST me, it has more area's to avoid and they are really spread out.
With all that said, please don't get down on our hometown.
I seriously question the validity of these reports and what purpose do they serve anyway???
Is a person to sit back and say, "Well, I'll have to not go back to Detroit and see my Sister, since that report came out, gee, it must be true"

How about a survey for the City with the most beautiful riverfront?, I know what City gets my vote

Hang in there my Brothers and Sisters...
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1172
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks for the clarification, detroitrise! seriously, i wonder where the haters come from. i sometimes wonder if the notion of haters is overblown. i wonder if somehow i just never engage with these people - or if i do, they somehow decide not to share their vitriol with me.

my experience is that folks with a grudge against detroit, or its rebirth, are very short in numbers. my daily encounters suggest a region wildly hoping for the city's resurgence.
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 1616
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If Detroit is the most dangerous city, I guess I must be pretty fearless. I know there is some nasty shit going on, but cripes, I don't feel THAT imperiled.
Or, maybe I'm just too much of a dumb-ass to know any better.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1173
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

You have it all right except for this phrase, Thecarl. A union going on strike is no more surprising, or shocking, than any other business occurrence. It's been decades since there was any violent or militant strikes.



thanks, alan; you make a good point. i mentioned the strikes, because in scanning blogs from the wall street journal to the denver post - there was a widespread sentiment that the area is filled with malcontents, and the midwest working class seems willing to perpetuate its demise. personally, i think the corporate power structure needs to be kept in check, and i'm glad that the union allows blue-collar citizens to sit at the table with the "big boys." nonetheless, news of these strikes are interwoven in what people view as a troubled city - and while violent strikes may be generations past in this region - unionization battles at auto plants throughout the south, and elsewhere, have been violent in recent times.
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Brenda
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Username: Brenda

Post Number: 39
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 6:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitrise: "Murder City" was one of the old tags put on Detroit years ago, now it "Most Violent"...in any case, it is crap. I lived most of my list in Detroit until joining the Navy and being away for 10 years. I never was hurt in my hometown. I was robbed while on duty in Charleston, SC....I worked for 10 years at the VA in Detroit until I transfer'd to Indiana and was never hurt....I miss the energy of the Detroit people (all of us)...the point regard'g the "tags" on Detroit is wrong and irresponsible for those who have access to publishing news...the timing was horrible....Detroiters are the coolest people! I see the difference in enthusiasm for life and energy where I live now. I am looking forward to spending my holiday with fam and friends in Detroit. Detroit is strong and will rise!
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 395
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 7:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right now I'm down in Alabama on a visit. When folks ask me were I'm from they have all ask about living in the most dangerous city in America. I tell 'em, "It's not so bad; fact is, it's been weeks since anybody shot at me."

I'm in BFE Alabama and all these fools know about Detroit's newest claim th fame. Meanwhile, I just missed a Klan rally, well actually, it was canceled due to lack of interest, but it was scheduled for last Saturday in Cullman.

jeeze.
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Higgs1634
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Username: Higgs1634

Post Number: 224
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From today's DetNews article...

quote:

"After today, what people will walk away with is that if you set foot in the city of Detroit you are going to get killed and that is absolutely not true," Bully-Cummings said. "We have hosted some of the biggest events in the country -- the World Series, the Super Bowl and (we) will have the NCAA basketball championships next year. We have had those events with no trouble at all."



No trouble at all? Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a shooting in the middle of all the super bowl festivities that remains unsolved? (I'm surprised she didn't also say there is never any trouble at the fireworks either)

The methodology/ tabloid nature of of the study aside, pretending there isn't a problem or spinning them to make them appear less serious, doesn't make it go away.

Detroit has a violence problem and a chief with her head in the sand.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 5343
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those that are getting off on this 'information'


Reead this:

https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/120165.html?1195667804
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Kjwick
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Username: Kjwick

Post Number: 59
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think all of the people saying Detroit is dangerous are Detroit haters. I love Detroit, but lets see....

-Yesterday, 4 kids through rocks at me as I walked home.

-Within the last year and a half, I've been broken into twice; once my front door kicked in during the middle of the day.

-In the last year, kids have thrown rocks through 2 of my windows, 3 others have been smashed in the last 6 years.

-In the last two years, 3 cars have been broken into at my house.

-Within the last seven years, I've been broken into ~ 7 times.

To be fair, until yesterday, I've never been attacked personally, but this crap gets old after a while.

Those pretending there isn't a MAJOR problem with violence in this city are delusional.

Confronting this report with proactive solutions instead of trying to discredit may be a more productive approach to reducing crime in the city and showing the region/country we are trying to change the violence in this city.
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Craig
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Username: Craig

Post Number: 491
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What area is home, Kjwick?
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Kjwick
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Username: Kjwick

Post Number: 62
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

midtown area.
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 1109
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm dying to know where in Midtown.
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 451
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds typical of the street-level livers I talked to in Lafayette Park when I lived there, actually. That strip mall was constantly being broken into.

Crime is the number one thing when it comes to Detroit. No doubt. When I'm traveling, when I'm anywhere and Detroit comes up, it comes up hand and hand with crime. Whether it's actual or perceived, pretending that it isn't the number one problem is sort of silly.

Without safety (or perceived safety) you do not have investment.

There is no allowable excuse for what Kjwick experiences.
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Brenda
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Username: Brenda

Post Number: 40
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 6:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At last it is Thanksgiving! My memories of watching the Hudson's Thanksgiving Day Parade and taking a ride with my parents to see the Christmas lights downtown that night make me smile. Today's parade will be great too! Detroit will survive the recent bad mouthing by a few media clowns who have never experienced the wonderful people of Detroit. I am leaving later today to spend my Thanksgiving in Michigan with fam and friends...and yes, I will be coming to Detroit! Today is a great day to give thanks!! Be proud of being Detroiters, there are no other people in the country with the kindness and generosity of this city. I have traveled around and live in other places while in the Navy. So Happy Thanksgiving...but I do miss chilly willie.....smile.

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