  Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 349 Registered: 06-2005 |
From the San Jose Mercury News: Silicon Valley is already the capital of the world's high-tech industry. Is it also becoming the Detroit of the electric car industry? Last week's announcement by Shai Agassi, a former SAP executive based in Palo Alto, that he's raised $200 million for a company that will try to revolutionize the electric car industry is the latest sign of this region's growing role in one of the hottest sectors of the automotive industry. That's no surprise considering California's mandate for cleaner cars, the local enthusiasm for plug-in hybrids, the Silicon Valley fascination with new technology and the number of Bay Area venture firms investing in this industry. Read more at http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_ 7392438?nclick_check=1 It seems to me that if any of these firms were on the verge of something good, they'd be bought by one of the larger existing auto manufacturers, just as Google and Microsoft do now in the software industry. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10721 Registered: 10-2003 |
Where does all of the electricity come from for these cars? Electric cars are not the answer. Our electrical usage is still dependant upon burning fossil fuels, is currently over burderened but these cars are going help how? Will people be asked to not charge their cars iin the summer if there is a heat wave? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2120 Registered: 04-2006 |
I think hydrogen fuel cells are the better investment. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2665 Registered: 06-2006 |
^everyone I talk to with knowledge on the subject says we'll never see a viable commercial hydrogen fuel cell in our lifetime... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10723 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Did they say if it is it technology or cost that makes the outlook bleak. | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 375 Registered: 06-2007 |
Not bloody likely. If it was easy as throwing $200 million at the issue, Detroit would have solved the issue related to gasoline a long time ago. Electric cars are fine if you want -0- emissions from a vehicle but you still have to generate the electric power to charge the batteries. Hydrogen fuel cells, from what I've heard from experts, isn't cost effective or efficient either, like the Tj said. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 365 Registered: 12-2006 |
Nuclear power plants!••• Cause that's clean! Right? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2122 Registered: 04-2006 |
I did a short research project on this years ago and the specifics are fuzzy, but currently the technology exists to produce cars on hydrogen technology with similar power to that of gasoline engines. To my knowledge, this is not true for electric cars. (Message edited by iheartthed on November 08, 2007) | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2879 Registered: 10-2003 |
BwaaaaHaaaHaaaHaaaHaaa, $200 million? Chrysler announced $30 billion in new investments for the development of new powertrains last June. This was just to eek out a few extra miles per gallon. If they thought spending $200 million on electric would get them out of their problems, don't you think they would have gone the cheaper route. And in case you didn't know, Chrysler already has an electric car division. So they have a great deal of experience in electric car manufacturing. http://www.gemcar.com/ | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2880 Registered: 10-2003 |
Also Daimler and Chrysler have a shared research project with around 100 Fuel cell vehicles on the road in California. They've been delivered to fleet customers to test the practicality of fuel cell vehicles in the real world. Daimler also produces fuel cell busses and has delivered fuel cell sprinters to UPS. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2673 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Did they say if it is it technology or cost that makes the outlook bleak." Both since both are related...form what I'm told, the technology is MUCH further away than what the industry leads the public to believe... I have not researched this myself but couldn't help but take note of the concurrence on this point from two automotive engineers and one automotive marketing rep I've spoken to | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2675 Registered: 06-2006 |
btw, has anyone else seen the Dailmer-Chrysler fuel cell police vehicle buzzing around the Wayne State campus? I caught a glimpse of it in June http://www.diverseeducation.co m/artman/publish/article_5813. shtml | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 636 Registered: 06-2005 |
I was under the impression that the Hydrogen powered cars are basically just using the the Hydrogen to store energy (Kind of like a battery). The Hydrogen produces electricity and that powers the motors and propels the vehicle. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here??? One of my customers is in fuel cell research for GM and he seems very excited about the possibilities. He showed me some photos/specs for a GM prototype Hydrogen powered Silverado. It seemed very impressive if they can get the costs down and find a environmentally friendly and energy efficient way of producing the Hydrogen. Powering my pickup with a solar or wind produced Hydrogen would be awesome! | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 3457 Registered: 02-2007 |
you are essentially right Johnnny. anyone see the Ford Fusion 999? http://www.businessweek.com/au tos/content/aug2007/bw20070821 _746926.htm?chan=autos_hybrids +index+page_news+%3Cspan+style %3D%22font-family%3Aarial%3B%2 2%3E%2B%3C%2Fspan%3E+features | ||
Treelock Member Username: Treelock Post Number: 231 Registered: 03-2005 |
I didn't want to bother registering to read the story, but I've read similar stories before. One thing to keep in mind is, these startups have zilch experience operating in the increasingly brutal auto industry, have no existing supply chains nor production facilities and zero brand recognition in a ridiculously competitive field. If they think they've stumbled onto easy money, then they really are California Dreamin'. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2881 Registered: 10-2003 |
You are correct. Hydrogen gives off electricity when it is combined with oxygen. A fuel cell allows the hydrogen to combine with the oxygen without actually burning. The electricity is then used to drive the electric motors. The most common way to generate hydrogen is to add electrons to water using DC current. Oxygen comes off one pole, Hydrogen off the other. So a fuel cell just reverses the process. A fuel cell system is really just a battery that can be recharged quickly by adding hydrogen. Also please don't try generating hydrogen with tap water. Use Distilled water. The chlorine in tap water produces nasty toxins when it goes through this process. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 320 Registered: 05-2006 |
quote: I did a short research project on this years ago and the specifics are fuzzy, but currently the technology exists to produce cars on hydrogen technology with similar power to that of gasoline engines. To my knowledge, this is not true for electric cars. They have produced cars already (EV1, Telsa Roadster, Ranger EV, Toyota Rav EV, etc.) that have the same acceleration and top speed or better than ICE vehicles. The problem is building an electric car that has the same range. Tesla has done it, but their cars are very expensive and the reliability remains to be proven. As battery technology improves, this hurdle will also be removed. | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 137 Registered: 08-2006 |
The secret is... how much energy does it take to transport one pound of either passenger or load one mile? In a Smart vehicle, this variable is quite high, in an SUV, this variable is quite low. Petroleum relies upon an un-renewable resource and so do bio-fuels and hydrogen. Solar and wind are the turtles of the energy chain. Maybe slow, but they are always there...most of the time. At the end, they are always providing a steady supply of energy. The Sun always shines and the Earth always rotates to create winds. Can't say the same about sucking an oil well dry. And, I agree, Silicon Valley is setting the standard for 21st century autos. I think they wish that Detroit would understand and take over, but until they do, Silicon Valley will continue to explore, innovate and lead. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 643 Registered: 07-2007 |
can i run my house on hydrogen? | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 207 Registered: 04-2007 |
Sounds like a bunch of self righteous computer geeks with their heads up their @$$. Some people like to think they have the answer to everything. I for one don't want a car that catches viruses and needs to download updates everyday. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 638 Registered: 06-2005 |
"Petroleum relies upon an un-renewable resource and so do bio-fuels and hydrogen." Bio-fuels are not a renewable source of energy? Also I don't see why Hydrogen could not be produced using renewable energy sources. Wind, solar and hydroelectric could all be used to produce Hydrogen. | ||
Digitaldom Member Username: Digitaldom Post Number: 658 Registered: 08-2004 |
yes you can run your house on hydrogen.. I saw a special last night on the science channel.. that an engineer got his house to power on solar during the day.. His solar cells powered a converter to hydrogen to tanks in his back yard.. So during the night he powered his house on Hydrogen.. But they estimated the price tag at 250,000 dollars to implement.. But as it becomes more common it is possible.. This guy even had a hydrogen fuel cell car as well.. He was completely outside the grid.. and used the extra power he had to store the energy in hydrogen.. | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 138 Registered: 08-2006 |
Johnny, I was making the point that corn is either food or fuel. When we start using corn for ethanol, the demand for corn goes up as does the price of food. Our water crunch due to the drought also shows the limited supply. I like hydrogen, but if we start trying to run our vehicles with something that is already in short supply, then we will be creating another real problem. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 326 Registered: 05-2006 |
You don't have to (and shouldn't) use corn for bio-fuel. There are better crops. Plus, you don't have to use farm land for bio-fuel necessarily. For example, there have been some early experiments with using algae for bio-fuel. Algae can be grown anywhere, including in sewage ponds or in smokestacks. Granted, this is not proven technology but interesting none-the-less. In the short-term, bio-fuel will not be an absolute substitute for oil but it will help to reduce our dependence on it. BTW, oil is also bio-fuel - just a couple of millions years old bio-fuel. (Message edited by nainrouge on November 09, 2007) | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 327 Registered: 05-2006 |
I think it should be pointed out that GM drove a lot of the development behind modern electric cars with their EV1. Just because they cancelled the program shouldn't detract from the good work that they did on it. They are also working on the Volt, which actually looks like a very good vehicle. It is essentially an electric car with a gas generator back-up. It is more electric car than hybrid. |
