  Urbanpioneer Member Username: Urbanpioneer Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2007 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20071106/NEW S01/71106031 So what is the solution? I'm an avid runner and at least weekly I'm chased or at least cautiously go by groups of roving dogs. And I'm a dog owner _ I have a 120-pound bullmastiff I rescued from Detroit Animal Control and my girlfriend has a 60 pound mud-dog from Mississippi. If you call the city, humane society or Detroit Animal Control, they MIGHT get out in a day or two if they can find the dogs. My worst dog encounter was when the folks two blocks from my home, who don't have electricity but instead run a generator, failed to control their pit and it chased after me as I was walking my bullmastiff. (People know me enough that they have stopped asking if I fight my dog._ Luckily they got there to pull their dog off. Then when I told them they have to get their dog under control, they told me to go home and mind my own business. If the city REALLY wanted to crack down on this, they could. Why can't they create a "dog control squad" that goes through the city picking up the dogs, ticketing the owners etc so people realize dogs are a responsibility and not just a disposible toy or low-cost outdoor alarm system. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1600 Registered: 07-2004 |
Why isn't there a dog-control squad? Uh, 'cause dogs' bribes suck? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2096 Registered: 04-2006 |
Stiffer penalties for dogs that get loose? | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 1553 Registered: 01-2006 |
If a dog is loose, and pursuing me in a hostile manner, I get to kill it. If the dog "belonged" to someone, they get to dispose of the corpse. It's bad enough, that we have to pussy-foot around with other citizens and their fragile and unpredictable sensitivities. Stray dogs? Nope. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1601 Registered: 07-2004 |
Why don't we set up a city agency to go around, look for dogs, find them, and -- if they have owners -- fine them. But then we'd need a robust city agency to issue tags and licenses. Then, their data would have to be correct from year to year. And then, when they fine people, they'd have to keep excellent records so they could monitor when one dog or one owner has lots of trouble. Then, they'd have to be monitored by internal affairs so that they weren't cutting their buddies a break, slacking off, unfairly killing animals, etc. In other words, let's start this big, new, city agency to combat a small problem that affects joggers and dog-walkers. Great. Sorry, I just can't get with that. What kind of pioneer are you? | ||
Edziu Member Username: Edziu Post Number: 14 Registered: 07-2007 |
What's the solution? Jog with a bag of seconal burgers and dispense freely, if you feel your safety and well being are in danger. Don't be fooled. Some of these mongrels would kill a person in a heartbeat if given the chance. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 3718 Registered: 12-2005 |
Dog Shoots Man | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 847 Registered: 01-2004 |
Next time that pit attacks your dog cut its throat. Then their dog will be under control. This is a serious topic and problem. Its happened to me as well. Honestly the owners and former ones of these dogs do not care and many are strays. As a result carry a weapon of some sort and do not feel bad when a violent threat is taken off the street. Sadly, I don't think city services can be counted on to deal with this-just as you mentioned. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 415 Registered: 11-2003 |
Kind of a tough situation when you have animals raising animals. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 330 Registered: 08-2007 |
Pioneer- The situation you describe sounds very dangerous. If you decide to arm yourself, make sure you go to the local precinct first and file a complaint against the dogs. You need to develop a file, or record, long before you're put in the position of defending yourself, your family or your property. Once you take action against those dogs, you will be sued and you need a iron-clad paper file with dates, times, photos and police reports to back up your claim that those dogs are a menace. Your friendly neighbors are going to get much less friendly; so you might as well plan on defending yourself. Start jogging somewhere else. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1452 Registered: 04-2006 |
Any owner that allows their dog to take a chomp out of someone should tied down while a larger, meaner dog takes a chomp out of that ownwer. Eye for an eye. That would teach people to be more responsible. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1972 Registered: 11-2003 |
At the very least, take pepper spray with you when you're jogging. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 634 Registered: 06-2005 |
Don't be worried about being sued for killing a violent dog in self defense. Even if the dog was not threatening you the dog's owner would have to show that the loss of the animal caused a financial loss. I highly doubt the dogs are valuable sporting or show dogs and loss of dog fighting revenue probably won't carry much weight with a judge. Next time you're threatened do the kids in the neighborhood a favor by eliminating the problem. (Message edited by Johnnny5 on November 06, 2007) | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 527 Registered: 03-2007 |
Pepper spray is a safer solution than a 9 mm...although less permanent...just make sure you're not downwind...it'll stop a brown bear so it should stop a dog. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 731 Registered: 07-2004 |
That is scary. Are Pitt Bulls a real issue in Detroit neighbourhoods? Maybe you guys need a Pitt Bull ban like Ontario has. I have no tolerance for dogs or their owners who can't properly train their dogs. I have been attacked by dogs a number of times and it is not fun. To this day, I still do not trust dogs. | ||
Zxzm Member Username: Zxzm Post Number: 55 Registered: 10-2007 |
Screw pepper spray, if you've got a CCW, put a bullet through its head. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 552 Registered: 02-2007 |
I went into a ladies house one time on business and she says "don't worry about the little boston terrier, he don't bite" it had already bit me, clamped down and hangin off of my arse..lol I hate dogs. Get a job where you have to go in people's houses, thats all it takes. I have the same attitude as Ravine, if someone likes their dog, control it around me. Or I will. I'm not going to let it bite me. | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 93 Registered: 08-2006 |
Ban them within city limits. Allow grace period of 3 months for owners to make other arrangements. Allocate some money to local shelters to deal with those trying to make "other arrangements". Set up anon hotline for anyone to report pit ownership within city. Set up temporary enforcement "squad" to follow up tips. I'll bet it would take less than 12 months to significantly reduce the number of pits. Go from there | ||
Hamtragedy Member Username: Hamtragedy Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hunters in oscoda county are being advised of a pack of "freed " large pitbulls that are terrorizing the local black bear population. Hunters are encouraged to carry little bells and pepper spray in case one of the pissed off bears catches their scent from up-wind, and to discern between pit bull scat and black bear scat: Pit bull scat looks like dog-shit, while black bear scat smells like pepper spray and has little bells in it. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 813 Registered: 07-2006 |
quote: quote: My pit bull is more likely to lick you to death than bite at all. sure, she might scratch you with her claws a bit as she's trying to get at your face to lick it, but it's not remotely ill-intentioned. Might knock you down too, again, only cause she's so excited to see you. Meanwhile, my chihuahua gets downright vicious, particularly when 'protecting' (in his mind) a sick family member, and has bit all of us (although not particularly hard, but sometimes enough to draw blood). And don't invade his personal space, cause he'll let you know if you're not welcome. On the rare occasion he slips out the door as we're coming or going, if he sees a neighbor, he'll chase them down and would bite them if he could (fortunately, he listens to us when we tell him to stop). So, should we ban chihuahuas? Obviously not. The real issue here is not any breed in particular, but owners who abandon their dogs or fail to care for them properly. Accusing a breed in such a way does nothing to solve the real problem. What you suggest is little more than saying we'll stop robberies if we ban jewelry stores. And keep in mind, out of the three attacks in the article, only one was by pit bulls. one was by bulldogs and the other was by a rottweiler. So if you ban pit bulls, you may as well ban all dogs, since all are capable of attacking and harming a human. and cats can be vicious too, so we may as well ban them while we're at it. so let's just be safe, and ban all pets. Isn't that what you really want? Because that's exactly where it leads. | ||
Unclefrank Member Username: Unclefrank Post Number: 111 Registered: 03-2006 |
Fox brand pepper spray is the best. Pepper spray backed up by a .45 is better. I wouldn't worry too much about being sued by the owner of an unleashed attack style dog. Any judge would laugh that idiot out of his court. The biggest danger is the fued you will start. Get a CCW, and let the local shitheads know that you can take care of yourself. | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 94 Registered: 08-2006 |
If you can't figure out the obvious difference between being attacked by a pit and being attacked by a Chihuahua, shame on you dog owner. I would handily step on and crush your Chihuahua if it were to attempt to attack me. The pit, well... | ||
The_ed Member Username: The_ed Post Number: 719 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hamtragedy: "Hunters in oscoda county .....has little bells in it." Funny | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 6859 Registered: 10-2003 |
My all-time favorite Peter Sellers scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =SXn2QVipK2o | ||
Lukabottle Member Username: Lukabottle Post Number: 103 Registered: 12-2004 |
The dogs that have chased me in the City have not been pits. You are hurting responsible pet owners by banning a breed. Pontiac banned Pits. Detroit City Council discussed it at a meeting several years ago and representatives from the City of Pontiac spoke to the council, and recommended not banning the breed. It was seen as a mistake and not a solution to the problem. Pit bull" does not describe any one particular breed of dog; rather, it is a generic category encompassing the American Staffordshire Terrier, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and the American Pit Bull Terrier. [FN41] Although neither the American Kennel Club nor the United Kennel Club recognizes all three breeds [FN42] and the breed descriptions and standards provided by the *2852 two organizations differ, [FN43] there are some common physical characteristics between the three breeds. These include the appearance of great strength, a compact muscular frame, a broad head with pronounced cheek muscles, and short glossy hair. [FN44] However, the lack of finite standards results in variations among and within the three breeds, [FN45] often making it difficult both to determine whether a particular dog should be categorized as a pit bull and to differentiate between pit bulls and other breeds. [FN46] http://www.animallaw.info/arti cles/arus74fordhamlrev2847.htm There are better solutions. | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 135 Registered: 08-2006 |
I have noticed that there is a tendency towards 'bigger and meaner' that seems to be the norm for some in regards to both dogs and vehicles. I think it represents a general dumbing down of society. We had a problem with pits, rockweilers and dobermans in our area and were not getting any response from anyone after numerous complaints. Then, our postman told me about a technique that the post office uses. Find out who the insurance provider is and then make a complaint directly with them. It is incredible how fast the threat of cancelled insurance or a substantial increase in insurance rates will clear out attack and/or aggressive dogs. I just mentioned this tactic to a large property owner where these dogs were a problem without having to follow through. It was just as effective. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2098 Registered: 04-2006 |
Actually, wasn't there a push to have Pit Bulls banned in the city a few years back? I'd say about 7 or 8 years ago, I definitely remember this issue coming up. I personally advocate more control on dog owners instead of banning certain breeds. Pit Bulls aren't the only vicious breed capable of killing people. Then again, if the city were equipped to have more control on this, then it would be equipped to deal with a lot of other quality of life issues. Does animal control fall under city or state jurisdiction? Maybe they could start a stray dog race track... | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 665 Registered: 08-2006 |
a dog attack is low on my list of concerns.....what about cars what are we going to do about cars they send people to the morgue and the hospital every day. Good luck on any real change in Detroit. Many people have big angry dogs for protection and there is a lax enforcement and control in the city. Think of the packs of strays! | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3241 Registered: 10-2003 |
There was a big push, after several attacks that made the news.. But the combination of the "dog lobby" and the lack of specfic legal language made it a no go. There are several national groups that lobby specifically cities that are considering banning such animals. And btw, a ccw is not the answer. A concealed weapon usually doesnt have the fire power to stop these animals with one shot. That's why DPD uses shot guns in pit bull incidents. In pitbull incindents, people want one shot-stopping.... | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 4900 Registered: 03-2006 |
I saw a cop on a WDIV news report put five slugs in a pit bulls head, seemed to work OK. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 234 Registered: 09-2006 |
Careful folks, sometimes the dog catcher can be more dangerous than the dogs.  | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 848 Registered: 01-2004 |
ha ha ha ! Woa. | ||
The_ed Member Username: The_ed Post Number: 753 Registered: 10-2007 |
I remember when I was about 12, my brother and I were watching dog-catchers in action. They were throwing these "hula-hoops" with netting on them. They would bounce them off of a wall and catch the strays that ran by. I always thought that was kinda cool. | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 243 Registered: 06-2007 |
I totally agree with Scottr, Lukabottle, Peachlaser and Iheartted..."problem animals" always ALWAYS mean "problem animal-owners." if an animal in a "domesticated" situation is neglected, abused, and/or abandoned and turns mean, is it that animal's fault? HELL NO!! shame on you macho idiot types thinking you're so cool with the idea of shooting these dogs. how about getting a hold of these rotten abusive dog owners instead? how about stringing them up? how does that sound? I am so tired of people blaming the animal for the animal-owner's abuse and/or neglect!•• I think that idea of complaining to the insurance company is perfect!! Dogs Rule. People Often Suck!! | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 244 Registered: 06-2007 |
and in the meantime, pepper spray should work. it even seems to work on huge, menacing wild grizzly bears in the Rocky Mountains! | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 186 Registered: 03-2005 |
There are too many unscrupulous, unlicensed ghetto pit bull breeders operating in Detroit. They do it for the "bad" reasons - fighting, aggression and knucklehead dog owners who are trying to cultivate a "badass" image but don't know what they're getting into. Some of them end up as strays, some are neglected and a good number end up dumped on the side of I-94. I can't say for certain that those are the result of dogfighting events, but there always seem to be several within a short stretch of highway on a Sunday or Monday. And they don't look like they wandered onto the freeway and got hit. Pit bulls CAN be good dogs, of course, but that's not what we're dealing with here. | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 245 Registered: 06-2007 |
there you go...how about you macho gun guys going after those disgusting HUMANS who are trying to be "bad ass" by abusing dogs??? it wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit to see these guys who are breeding and fighting these dogs dumped off to fend for themselves along a freeway to Nowhere. lock them up in a tiny kennel and starve THEM to make 'em mean. what goes around comes around, you bet. crack down on these people! let's try to help these animals. | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 246 Registered: 06-2007 |
these abusive, ignorant "bad ass" dog owners cannot suffer ENOUGH, in my book, if they are neglecting, abusing, and/or dumping dogs. if I could get my hands on them, they would find out very quickly what "bad ass" really means. | ||
Johnamos Member Username: Johnamos Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2007 |
It seems to me that everybody is right here to some extent. I have known pit bull who seem perfectly harmless. The problem with pit bulls as I see it is that every thug or gangster living downtown seems to think he must have a pit bull. The Staffordshire Terrior as recognized by the kennel club is not the dog that I am worried about but rather the poorly bred mean spirited dogs that are desired by the thugs that own them. The true problem , however is with the irresponsible lazy, ignorant problematic dog owner who does not have any business owning any dog in the first place, let alone a dangerous one. It seems to be a problem that is only going to get worse. I truly advocate for the CCW option. If the laws made it clear that there would be no cause for retribution against defending yourself from any unattended dog I believe that perhaps many of these situations would go away. You just can not relegate it to creating another government "solution" which the state and city can not afford. | ||
Pussygirl313 Member Username: Pussygirl313 Post Number: 55 Registered: 08-2006 |
Big dog, little dog. Pitt Bull, Chihuahua. I don't care, if a dog is going to attack me and I have my piece on me, its a dead dog. Pussygirl don't play. I have had to shoot 2 wild dogs that were causing problems in my hood. One was attacking a lady walking down the street from the bus stop. Another neighbor beat it with a bat and it jumped back and was still for a minute and I shot it. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 635 Registered: 06-2005 |
""problem animals" always ALWAYS mean "problem animal-owners." if an animal in a "domesticated" situation is neglected, abused, and/or abandoned and turns mean, is it that animal's fault? HELL NO!! shame on you macho idiot types thinking you're so cool with the idea of shooting these dogs. " Shame on someone for suggesting that a human being defend themselves from an animal?? Are you that much of an animal nut that you think we should kill the dogs owners for neglecting the dogs, but leave the vicious dogs to roam the streets? You need to rethink your priorities. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 632 Registered: 07-2007 |
if a dog attacks you kill it. don't breed them either. I support most of their efforts but I wonder how many dogs does the "humane society" Kills each year, must be over 10 thousands? oh i forgot they have a right to kill. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1650 Registered: 11-2003 |
Take something. You may not have yet had a problem. You might/probably will. Better to have something on you than nothing. Pepper spray might actually be better than a gun, I'd guess. If you're fighting a pack, it is easier to just start sprayin in every direction and stop em all. If you have to use a handgun, you're gonna miss at least a couple times, by then dog number 4 is gonna make it through. But don't jog without protection. Jesus, is Detroit this wild west?! I almost can't even fathom a city that is so ineffective that it has packs of dogs roaming its streets.... | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 3056 Registered: 06-2004 |
it doesn't take a pack to take someone down and the strays turn up everywhere the last time I ran into one was a Saturday afternoon on the south side of the DIA - not the place I was expecting to see a big, active stray - and it got me thinking about all the kids and elderly that visit that area for the library and museums | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 479 Registered: 09-2007 |
"Jesus, is Detroit this wild west?! I almost can't even fathom a city that is so ineffective that it has packs of dogs roaming its streets...." I don't know what's wrong with Detroit. | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 99 Registered: 04-2006 |
I know this may be controversial, but I have an ironclad policy to kill any nearby pitbulls or other large fighting dogs such as presa canarios, rottweilers, etc., if I see them outside unrestrained even once. No exceptions. I don't care who "owns" the dog, or if the dog has a "violent nature" or not. The dog will get sniped by me, eat a mouthful of Paraquat, or will end up squashed underneath my tires, but in any case, it dies, and quickly. It didn't used to be this way, but there have simply been too many cases of dog attacks and irresponsible owners for me to ignore the threats. | ||
Unclefrank Member Username: Unclefrank Post Number: 113 Registered: 03-2006 |
As Detroit reverts back to nature, this kind of thing thing should be expected. I wouldn't go into any wilderness unarmed. I wouldn't enjoy shooting a dog, but I will protect myself. | ||
Carolcb Member Username: Carolcb Post Number: 2602 Registered: 11-2006 |
When I was running or biking all the time, I was never bitten by a dog but sometimes they would bark or chase you on the bike. We always thought we could just squirt the dogs in the face with what ever liquid was in the bike water bottle. But I cannot imagine the horror these people who were walking or jogging or whatever must have experienced; it just seems unbelieveable to me that people cannot walk down the street, be it in Detroit or whereever those two people died from that one woman's animals out in the country. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1241 Registered: 11-2003 |
Owners are the problem. The dog on "Our Gang" was a pit bull. That said, my German Shepherd and I were once attacked by an angry Doberman. A few minutes later we moon walked out of there. | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 113 Registered: 05-2006 |
How about if we enforce the licensing of all dogs. If any dog is found on the street without a license it is subject to be destroyed. As for the joggers add some pepper spray to go along with the Ipod and water bottle you carry. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2121 Registered: 04-2006 |
^Which one is illegal in Michigan again? Pepper spray or mace? Or both? | ||
Karl_jr Member Username: Karl_jr Post Number: 158 Registered: 06-2007 |
Salvadordelmundo: I know this may be controversial, but I have an ironclad policy to kill any nearby pitbulls or other large fighting dogs such as presa canarios, rottweilers, etc., if I see them outside unrestrained even once. No exceptions. I don't care who "owns" the dog, or if the dog has a "violent nature" or not. The dog will get sniped by me, eat a mouthful of Paraquat, or will end up squashed underneath my tires, but in any case, it dies, and quickly. Salvadordelmundo, you sound like a man with a paper a--hole. As my dad would have said. | ||
Arrogancy Member Username: Arrogancy Post Number: 20 Registered: 02-2007 |
I just walk up to roaming dogs and they run away or let me pet them. If they run at me I just walk towards them. If I had my dog with me, though, I might be worried. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1021 Registered: 11-2005 |
"Another dog attack ... what is the solution?" Make people get cats instead. |
