  Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1969 Registered: 11-2003 |
This is the first real mention I've seen of the proposed transit/monorail system for metro airport... http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 1104/EMAIL/311040001/-1/newsle tter02 quote: Also, a related editorial from Crain's Detroit Business: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 1104/EMAIL/311040008/-1/newsle tter02 quote: | ||
Cgunn Member Username: Cgunn Post Number: 155 Registered: 01-2004 |
I would love to see a monorail @ metro, but do they need to increase the free to $7? If the plan is 1B with federal help, and the airport will raise 2.2B by increasing fees, where is all this money going to go? | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1959 Registered: 10-2006 |
"where is all this money going to go?" If the monorail is to connect the two terminals and the rental car area, it would be a LONG loop. It would have to be at least about 3.5 miles to connect all of those facilities. Comparing it to the people mover at 2.9 miles and a cost of $600 million (in 1980s) to construct, it is likely that a DTW people mover could easily be a couple billion and prob. even more if it actually had to make a full circle. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5650 Registered: 08-2004 |
Sorry to correct you Charlottepaul... but the People Mover cost $200 million. The $600 million figure is what President Ford was going to set aside to SEMTA (the predecessor to SMART) for the first phase of light rail mass transit, if they could get their act together... which they couldn't, so the $600 million was forfeited. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1962 Registered: 10-2006 |
Oh yeah, that's my bad. Good catch. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2070 Registered: 04-2006 |
But even in these financially challenged times, transportation is a key ingredient for economic-development plans That's hogwash. Crain's Detroit Business must be full of socialist writers! | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 1084 Registered: 10-2003 |
This is actually a great deal if we can get it. The loop out to common rental car area north of I-94 is a trend seen at other airports around the country. That suddenly turns the AA to detroit downtown a much more valuable line. Per Crain's article, Northwest, who wanted to charge me $1,250 to make a same day change my flight back from SFO, is extremely self-serving in their whining about the $3.00 per ticket fee that will make the entire airport more friendly for all airline passengers. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1970 Registered: 11-2003 |
Agreed, Irish. Most other major airports the size of DTW have some sort of tram or rail system to move people around from terminal to terminal and to rental car areas and transit stops, so I don't really see any valid objection to the concept. If Northwest can demonstrate that these types of tram systems are typically funded through a different mechanism (today), then that might be a valid criticism. In any case, this new tram system will be a huge win for DTW, and the AA-DTW-DET commuter rail line. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2191 Registered: 01-2005 |
Metro needs something. On my Detroit visit last month I couldn't believe how dumpy, gloomy, and disorganized DTW has become. I hope the new building and demolition of the old will make a radical difference. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 309 Registered: 08-2007 |
Ray1936- I was never a fan of Ed McNamara, but most sources show that the McNamara Terminal is one of the best in the country. Did you fly in/out of the Smith or Berry Terminals? Just wondering. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2193 Registered: 01-2005 |
I don't know which terminal is which, Gnome, but we flew Southwest Airlines, if that will tell you. It was also aggravating not to have curbside luggage pickup as they do at LAS. For a couple of old farts like my wife and I, that was a bit of a strain. (You know how wives pack like they're going away for a year when it's really only a short week.) (Message edited by Ray1936 on November 05, 2007) | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 310 Registered: 08-2007 |
Ah, yes, Southwest flies out of the LC Smith Terminal which is about 55 yrs old. That's not too old for a person but for a airplane terminal it's a tad long in the tooth. They're planning on building a new "North" terminal which will replace Smith and the Berry Terminal. here's the link. http://www.metroairport.com/pr oject/ | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1964 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Agreed, Irish. Most other major airports the size of DTW have some sort of tram or rail system to move people around from terminal to terminal and to rental car areas and transit stops, so I don't really see any valid objection to the concept." What's wrong with each of the car rental companies having its own van that drives by and picks you up? Also, why might there be any reason to travel between terminals? I would imagine that very few people book flights that are on different airlines within the same leg of a trip. | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 151 Registered: 05-2007 |
With the increased use of Orbitz, Travelocity, etc, I can see a considerable increase in passengers booking flights using multiple airlines and thus multiple terminals for a single leg. Case in point, I decided to use travelocity to book my flight to Reno, NV back in July. The cheapest and least time consuming flight was the following: Departure:NWA metro to Vegas; US Air/Mesa Vegas to Reno,NV Return: Alaska/Horizon Air from Reno to LAX; NWA from LAX to Metro. Completely changed terminals in both Vegas and Los Angels. (Note: trying to get from one terminal to another at LAX and back through security in under 30 mins = not fun!) If you search just about any flight on any of the travel website, you will see a bunch of flights under the "Multiple Carriers" listing. | ||
Clark1mt Member Username: Clark1mt Post Number: 103 Registered: 06-2005 |
Northwest would logically oppose anything that makes it easier to make a connection with a non-allied airline (which will be housed in the new north terminal. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2195 Registered: 01-2005 |
Throughout the terminal, Gnome, there were numerous signs advising of the coming construction of a new terminal and the levelling of the existing one. Can't come soon enough for me, since I nearly always fly Southwest. | ||
Malcovemagnesia Member Username: Malcovemagnesia Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2005 |
As a guy who travels quite a bit for work and fun, I really really despise paying excessive taxes and fees for using certain cities airports. In San Francisco, all car rentals have a $15 charge added onto every bill (in addition to the $4.50 per transit every passenger pays, oh yeah, "concession fee recovery" and a "tourist board tax" as well) Same deal with Phoenix and Boston. As soon as Detroit wins their $7 per connection charge, all the other airports that demand the maximum fee will be clamoring to boost their take as well. Meanwhile, there's Memphis: Zero transit fee added to a plane ticket. That's a friendly airport. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 374 Registered: 09-2006 |
Yes Ray, the LC Smith terminal you used is horrible. The main terminal at DTW (McNamara) is one of the most advanced in the country. You unfortunately were subjected to the bad terminal for sure. | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 153 Registered: 05-2007 |
Malcove: I agree. States, Cities, and Transport authorities have become real adept at screwing you up the cornhole with extra taxes, recovery fees, surcharges, and other BS when renting cars. My favorite examples is Jim Bradley, candidate for mayor of Salt Lake City, who had an idea for boosting local revenues during the 2002 Winter Olympics. "The hotel transient room tax has to be jacked up as high as we can possibly do it," he said. "We have to raise the car rental tax as high as we can possibly do it--even shamelessly high--to generate revenue. ... We have to look at opportunities like that to just screw 'em." | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 1085 Registered: 10-2003 |
Malcove, I am a very big anti-tax guy. That said...bring on the $3. It means absolutely nothing on my airline ticket. That is why I don't understand why NWA, amongst other things, decides they must sell me a drink via an unfriendly flight attendant who failed to understand that she was really a retailer and she didn't bother to put change into her cash box!! Put the $5 for the drink on my ticket and quit pissing off the passenger. CharlottePaul, per Raptor's response, I do the same thing. I flew back from the west coast on Friday a bit after midnite and had to convince the wrong shuttle that it was a good idea to take me over to the McNamara terminal from the Smith terminal to pick up my car lest I fall asleep waiting for the real shuttle to arrive. Bring on the tram. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1971 Registered: 11-2003 |
CharlottePaul -- I would concede that if it were just for a connection to the rental car agencies, the tram probably wouldn't be worth it. But when you factor in the connection to the other terminal and to the commuter rail line, it's a different story. This will really be the final piece to making DTW a first-class airport. I've also done the booking two legs on separate airlines thing... almost screwed myself one time by only allowing 40 minutes between 2 flights in separate terminals (at the Phoenix airport I think), that was pretty hectic! But sometimes you can save money/time doing that. I think chipping away a bit at Northwest's all-powerful monopoly, by making it easier to switch terminals, is probably a good thing. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1972 Registered: 10-2006 |
"I think chipping away a bit at Northwest's all-powerful monopoly, by making it easier to switch terminals, is probably a good thing." Still seems to me that it would still be cheaper than a couple billion dollars to simply hire shuttle drivers (maybe even as often as every few minutes) than it would be to build a looping light rail... | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 401 Registered: 11-2005 |
Who says it has to be a looping system? Why can't it be a side-by-side line? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3706 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: You'd have to perform a life-cycle cost analysis. Spending "a couple billion dollars" sounds absolutely ridiculous, especially since something of that cost would probably involve asinine technology like the DPM or something. When considering a system of ground-based shuttles, you have to consider not only driver salaries, but benefits, cost of vehicles (many of which would be required), vehicle maintenance, gasoline, storage/maintenance facilities, etc. BWI uses shuttles, and it seems to work out okay, except you're never really sure how long it will be until the next shuttle arrives. Anyone have any experience with Newark's AirTrain that connects to the rail station? | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1974 Registered: 10-2006 |
$100,000 salary and healthcare, etc. x 100 employees -------- = $10 million per year + another 10 mil. for the vehicles and facilities per year = $20 mil per year x 100 years = 2 billion dollars | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3707 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Based on what? Are these "real" numbers? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2091 Registered: 04-2006 |
Anyone have any experience with Newark's AirTrain that connects to the rail station? Yup, it's great! Connects you right to the NJ Transit train. It's better than JFK's Airtrain, IMO... | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1977 Registered: 10-2006 |
Based on what? Are these "real" numbers? Danindc, don't be silly. No of course not--extremely hypothetical. I'm just arguing that you could spend a lot of money hiring shuttle drivers for the next one hundred years for 2 billions dollars. You know that I am a big fan of transit, but one at DTW seems a bit extreme. | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 402 Registered: 11-2005 |
Although it may seem extreme, many large cities are currently expanding their transit system to the airports. It seems more logical to build a system at the airport first since getting to the airport has been a major part of the problem of other systems. By doing this now, the infrastructure will be in place at the airport for the continually expanding airport and users. A mass transit system in our area is looking close, so lets take this in stride and use it to build on. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1978 Registered: 10-2006 |
Fine. I will take it in stride, but that's it. I love public transit, but it does seem logical to me that I would have to draw my line somewhere. I guess now I just have to move my line to the 3 billion dollar mark to give transit the benefit of the doubt. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1973 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'm not sure where you're getting 2 or 3 billion from. The article states that the master plan of capital improvements is $1 billion, which includes the tram among other things. So, the tram will cost less than $1 billion. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1974 Registered: 11-2003 |
Here's another article from the Free Press on the story: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2007711060305 | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 486 Registered: 05-2006 |
quote: Not only have I often had to change terminals within the same airport, but on several occasions I have had to change airports. If you really want stress, try getting from Gatwick to Heathrow in an hour and a half. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1983 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well at least DTW plans to build a 2+ billion dollar tram for you Ramcharger. |
