  Realitycheck Member Username: Realitycheck Post Number: 484 Registered: 08-2004 |
Get this: A journalist and civic booster cross the Detroit River for a look at examples of vibrant downtown lessons Windsor can adapt . . . . . . but they bypass RiverWalk, Campus Martius, Eastern Market, the Mercado/Welcome Center and Foxtown. Rather than saving time and fuel, Windsor Star columnist Gord Henderson and Larry Horwitz, chair of the Downtown Windsor Business Improvement Assn., stay on I-75 for . . . quote:Lo and behold, the intrepid gem hunters find "imaginative architecture, appealing storefronts . . . attractive parking structures," clean sidewalks, curbside planters and other evidence that "cities with commitment and imagination, and especially a strong sense of community, can create downtowns that are visitor-friendly and wonderful places to live." Today's full column is here. This "holy trinity" nonsense make you wanna holler? Do so, softly, with a note to ghenderson@thestar.canwest and his daily's Letters page (under 300 words) at letters@thestar.canwest.com. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1876 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well, some people do love suburban downtowns. I am willing to guess though that in the this or the next generation, the suburban downtowns might lose some popularity, as the resurgence of real urban downtowns is beginning to come around. Guess it isn't for me to comment on the desires of Canadians though--that's a whole different ball game. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3872 Registered: 02-2005 |
SW Ontario is pretty rural, and Windsor is pretty small-time. You can see how they would be enamored with the suburbs. But yeah talk about some ignorant reporting... | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2010 Registered: 04-2006 |
Admittedly, it's been a couple of years since I've been to B-ham, but do many people actually live in downtown Birmingham? I remember it as being just a restaurant/entertainment district, similar to something you might find in L.A. Not really what I would call "walkable". Yeah, you can walk from business to business but you still have to get in a car to go home. I'd actually call Windsor more walkable than either B-ham or Ferndale. | ||
Realitycheck Member Username: Realitycheck Post Number: 485 Registered: 08-2004 |
quote:More in-town apartments and condos than when you last visited, Iheartthed, though not as affordable as R.O. or F'dale. The B definitely is walkable from surrounding residential neighbs. on each side of the principal shopping district (as they call it) . . . which includes a library, small park (summer concerts, art fairs), two movie theaters (20 screens), athletic club, historical museum, Community House (classes for all ages). Time to check it out again, Iheartthed. No passport required.  | ||
Cgunn Member Username: Cgunn Post Number: 148 Registered: 01-2004 |
They have mentioned Detroit downtown in articles before. But it wouldn't make much sense for Windsor to compare thier downtown with Detroit. Instead they wanted to show that cities of Windors' size (or smaller) have great and vibrant downtowns. Something our reports should start doing. Stop comparing Detroit to New York. Maybe compare it with San Jose, Jacksonville, possibly Dallas; Where the populations are comparable. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3577 Registered: 10-2003 |
Constructing a quality urban environment has nothing to do with population numbers. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 339 Registered: 06-2005 |
A leading expert in walkability named Birmingham as one of the most walkable cities in Michigan. http://www.walkable.org/articl e6.htm | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 374 Registered: 09-2007 |
"Something our reports should start doing. Stop comparing Detroit to New York. Maybe compare it with San Jose, Jacksonville, possibly Dallas; Where the populations are comparable." It's interesting you should mention that. The size of Detroit landwise does fit Chicago, LA or New York's size, but has a population along the lines of Cleveland's, Pittsburgh's, or St. Louis (cities that we're twice the size of landwise). So it would be hard to compare any city to Detroit. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2013 Registered: 04-2006 |
A leading expert in walkability named Birmingham as one of the most walkable cities in Michigan. set Walkable = in Michigan :::cannot compute::: | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2014 Registered: 04-2006 |
Something our reports should start doing. Stop comparing Detroit to New York. Maybe compare it with San Jose, Jacksonville, possibly Dallas; Where the populations are comparable. So Washington DC should be compared with Milwaukee? And San Francisco with Indianapolis? | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 340 Registered: 06-2005 |
quote: Cannot compute? Are you programming the Lost in Space robot?  From the Walkability website (emphasis is mine): "Having worked in over 1200 communities in North America I am often asked “What is your favorite Walkable Community?” Easy. In North America it is Victoria, British Columbia. It is the one good great place. Since we cannot all live there … It is better that I list many places, and show a range of quality and completeness. At the risk of leaving out towns that I have not visited, taken a liking to, yet have forgot to include in the short moment I had to prepare this piece, I provide a partial list below of good places to live that are Walkable Communities. Many of these places are not affordable, many are. Many people find it essential to downsize their homes, sell one or all cars in order to rebuild their quality of life and health. "In some states, such as Michigan or California, there are so many towns it is difficult to decide which to include, which to leave out. In a few states (New Mexico or Arizona) it is so hard to find a single listing that I find a need to make a more comprehensive search there at a later point in time.}" | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2015 Registered: 04-2006 |
^Ironic, because those are probably the two states where the majority of the population live in the least walkable environments. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 248 Registered: 06-2007 |
Ah, anti-suburbia run rampant again. Ironically, I just had this conversation with a co-worker last night. He was complaining that Detroit's downtown area isn't vibrant enough and closes down too early. Then he mentioned the neighborhood East of downtown,which I informed him is called "walkerville"and how they still have fully intact blocks of brick duplexes and flats, whereas similar neighborhoods in detroit haven't survived as well. I think Royal Oak serves as a good example for both Windsor AND Detroit to follow. I'll disagree with Birmingham-a bit too small and wealthy-oriented. I grew up in that area and even I feel a little polarized there being a bit more blue-collar incomewise. Ferndale is quaint, but thats largely due to the Westside neighborhoods with interesting architecture. Royal Oak has the club scene and diverse selection of dining much in the same vein as Windsor. It is surrounded by preserved old neighborhoods, like Windsor and Ferndale. Go ahead and call me a Detroit hater. Im just trying to provide the dose of reality so many people in the city seem to try to deny, and get all defensive about. What we really need to do is find out WHY those cities are successful and maintaining their population while Detroit keeps losing so many people. Don't burn your bridges. They may help the city evolve for the better | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 377 Registered: 09-2007 |
We already know the reason is crime. What we do need to find out is what to do about the crime. Royal Oak doesn't even have a Police and Fire department and is better off than downtown according to many Metro Detroiters. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 341 Registered: 06-2005 |
quote: The City of Royal Oak has both a police and fire department. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3578 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Not anti-suburbia--anti auto-oriented. There are plenty of walkable suburbs (and small towns) out there. Detroit could learn a lot from a few of its suburbs, regarding the form that the city takes. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 378 Registered: 09-2007 |
Ok, then it's Royal Oak Township. It's Same thing in my opinion. Only difference to me is the government and name. | ||
That_gurl_kat Member Username: That_gurl_kat Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2007 |
Holy Trinity? Ugh. Gord Henderson. Having been born and raised in Windsor I have had to suffer many years of his horrible editorials. Windsor has but one newspaper and so there is no alternative to Gord. PLEASE, send him email and let him now exactly how you feel about his article. It'll do him some good to hear it from some people outside of the Windsor community. ghenderson@thestar.canwest | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 484 Registered: 02-2006 |
rise, Royal Oak and Royal Oak Township are FAR from the same thing. I'll break down the differences. R.O. Township is a lot like Detroit. Royal Oak is generally safe, clean, and the downtown is vibrant after dark. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 269 Registered: 08-2007 |
Within a half mile of Woodward and Maple in Birmingham you can walk to 3 Hotels, 2 movie theaters, 1 live theather, a half dozen furniture stores, a dozen or more women's clothing stores, plus the library, community house and single family housing which includes apartments, townhomes, condos and stand alone homes. Oh, yeah, they also have low income housing for about 1500 seniors. I failed to mention that you can also walk to a train station or go fishing at a pretty good size lake. Did I forget sliders at the Hunter House, sushi, asian, mid-eastern, irish tavern, fondue ... if you can't find a style or price point you just ain't looking. In my book that is pretty walkable. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 221 Registered: 09-2006 |
The Royal Oak, Birmingham and Ferndale downtowns are gems. The Star couldn't have picked three better local settings. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 706 Registered: 07-2004 |
What is the big deal that they looked at these suburban downtowns? No matter what, they are real functioning downtowns, and not just mindless sprawl. There is nothing wrong with them, and if Windsor can learn something from them, then its great. Do we want our cities reviving, or are we more concerned with what example is used? | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 249 Registered: 06-2007 |
If Windsor really wanted to do themselves good they'd have gone to Ann Arbor. Like Windsor, downtown AA is surrounded by neighborhoods with a sizable student population. The downtown areas are upbeat and busy. Both probably have a comparable car-less population. As for Detroit? We need to look at whatever Windsor is doing right. Their population has actually INCREASED. Like our Wayne State area, they have their area of college kids. Farther out are factories and auto plants, which are what put Detroit on the map. Windsor has successfully remained intact with the University/Industrial balance. Its just on a smaller scale because its a smaller city (around 207K people). I think it should work both ways. They came to Michigan. Now, Kwame and his minions need to go to Windsor and take notes. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 707 Registered: 07-2004 |
Windsor has one of the most distressed downtowns in Ontario. Many people do not look at it as a model. To many malls, etc have but a damper on a once vibrant downtown. One thing you guys might want to look at is the new transit terminal. See how that works out. Plus if Detroit were to look at Ontario you would see one thing that your state would never do. And that is forced mergers of suburbs and central cities and metropolitan level governments. (Message edited by miketoronto on October 28, 2007) | ||
Realitycheck Member Username: Realitycheck Post Number: 486 Registered: 08-2004 |
quote:Let me further sharpen Gnome's fine point 5 posts earlier: In adiition to walking to that diverse array of attractions, Birmingham visitors and in-town residents also can hoof it to: * A nature trail alongside the Rouge River * A post office with 24/7 automated mailing capability for most domestic items * Four bank branches, at least * Border's Books, Music & Cafe * Kroger and Papa Joe's (specialty market) * Brokers and financial advisers galore Definitely walking-friendly. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2019 Registered: 04-2006 |
So that's what you call walkable? Hmm. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 363 Registered: 09-2006 |
I work in Windsor,, its downtown is a a real mix anymore of some good restaurants,tons of kiddy bars, strip clubs, shwarma hangouts ( good ones), some offices and banks, an awesome riverfront with great walking areas and a very cool new restaurant, unbelievably chinsy retail overall, and sidewalks full of everyday type people and ones who are talking to themselves everyday.. Its a very interesting mix,, but for some reason it kinda works,, with better retail, it would be quite good | ||
The_ed Member Username: The_ed Post Number: 399 Registered: 10-2007 |
321brian "R.O. Township is a lot like Detroit." I disagree; R.O. Township is more like Highland Park than Detroit | ||
Realitycheck Member Username: Realitycheck Post Number: 488 Registered: 08-2004 |
quote:Being able to shop, dine, handle errands, visit public amenities and enjoy greenspace without turning an ignition key is a description that works for me, yes. Specialists say it this way: * "Walkable communities are places in which most trips are made without a car." -- Urbanity * "Walkable communities put urban environments back on a scale for sustainability of resources (both natural and economic) and lead to more social interaction, physical fitness and diminished crime and other social problems. Walkable communities are more liveable communities and lead to whole, happy, healthy lives for the people who live in them." -- Walkable Communities, Inc. Thanks for asking, Iheartthed, and perhaps sharing your viewpoint in more than seven words now. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 274 Registered: 08-2007 |
RC Birmingham is a delightfully walkable town and the thousands of people who live, work and shop there are testimony to that fact. I particularly like their policy of offering 2 hours of free parking in the parking decks. It gets folks off the street and encourages them to shop and spend money with the downtown merchants. A huge boon to the retail trade and a somewhat counter-intuitive solution to the problem of combating the allure of the Somerset Collection. It is really pleasant to park in one of the parking structures, grab a bite to eat, catch a movie, then finish the evening with a little window shopping and coffee sipping. It's pretty civilized. Oh, yeah, pay no attention to silly trolls. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 1006 Registered: 09-2005 |
Reality, as for your first post in this thread, you list the following examples found in Detroit: RiverWalk, Campus Martius, Eastern Market, the Mercado/Welcome Center and Foxtown. However, as you are aware only the RiverWalk, Campus Martius and Foxtown are found in the CBD. Of course, Detroit looked to Windsor for the creation of its RiverWalk. Campus Maritus is certainly a wonderful civic space that any city should strive to emulate. As for Foxtown, a city the size of Windsor could not sustain such a development absent both the Lions and Tigers migrating South. Although Detroit's downtown continues to improve from its long, hard decline, at this point Gord Henderson would be viewed as crazy to suggest that Windsor should follow Detroit's lead. Critics (half seriously) would state that in emulating Detroit, Windsor should abandon significant buildings and develop a culture of fear with respect to the city's core. Of course, Windsor can and has learned from initiatives taken by Detroit just as Windsor and Detroit can learn from successful Detroit burbs and vice versa. I think the point is that Windsor could do well to make its downtown more like Royal Oak's, not that the city of Windsor should become more like Royal Oak. |
