 
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3054
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 4:44 pm: |    |
What's there to figure out?
We have inept "representation" in Washington who can't get back the money taken from us.
We have low-grade morons in Lansing who can't budget or plan properly if their lives depended on it. |
Umcs
Member
Username: Umcs
Post Number: 329
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 4:58 pm: | |
Mcp,
"low-grade morons"
Classic. I love it. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 370
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 5:51 pm: | |
They would only make sense if the toll roads were away from major urban areas (like Detroit to lessen the residential traffic congestion). I don't think people will mind them that much if they don't have to deal with them. |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 560
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 6:23 pm: | |
They would only make sense if the toll roads were away from major urban areas (like Detroit to lessen the residential traffic congestion). I don't think people will mind them that much if they don't have to deal with them.
I thought toll roads and turnpikes were essentially for interstate travel, and MI is a peninsula, so I don't quite get that thought.
On the other hand, we could create a toll for an up North route with an extra toll on jet skis.... |
Oakmangirl
Member
Username: Oakmangirl
Post Number: 561
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 6:29 pm: | |
It's a privatization of a government toll road.
Detroitnerd, I agree with your observations, but I wonder where the longstanding push to privatize Amtrak falls into your scenario? |
Rosedaleken
Member
Username: Rosedaleken
Post Number: 312
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 9:08 pm: | |
Detroitnerd is exactly right, at one time any road built with federal funds was not to be tolled. How they're getting around this for PA I-80 I don't know.
Oakmangirl you're right. Toll roads are tolerated in Chicagoland because everyone sees all the Indiana, Wisconsin, and Michigan plates driving around the lake and paying no Illinois taxes.
A toll for trucks only on I-69 in anticipation of its future use might raise some extra $.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I nterstate_69 |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 523
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 11:59 pm: | |
oh HELL no |
Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 6047
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 12:13 am: | |
Free?? Have you checked your tax burden lately? If a toll road is owned by the state, or federal government, it is simply a tax in a different form. If private, well that is a different story. If the toll is better than the public alternate, then it is up to the consumer to choose. |
Sycloneman
Member
Username: Sycloneman
Post Number: 61
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 3:49 am: | |
I don't understand why they call toll roads "expressways" and others "freeways". I can see the "free" in the freeways, but there is NO "express" when you have to wait at toll booths! I think the solution would be to set up toll booths, give each resident of Michigan holding a driver's license a transponder, and set up "express lanes" and then one toll lane. This way all the residents drive right through while the out of staters have to pay the toll and sit in traffic. Of course I know this isn't perfect nor feasible if we want to keep any tourism, but in effect this is what other places, like Chicago, are trying to do. |
Iaintgotnostyle
Member
Username: Iaintgotnostyle
Post Number: 84
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 11:31 am: | |
Why do we drive on a parkway yet we park in a driveway? |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3005
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 11:49 am: | |
ya, if everyone who bitches about their fellow Detroiters/Michganders left the state, all we'd have left are the folks who love and support the place, and who would probably agree on many issues. Then progress could be made without having to constantly climb over the haters' speedbumps. The people who really care aren't the ones leaving. IMHO smaller is better if that's what it takes to get the job done. |
Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 6080
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 9:45 pm: | |
Except that you are not in favor of smaller government are you Lilpup? |
Mrsjdaniels
Member
Username: Mrsjdaniels
Post Number: 294
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 9:54 pm: | |
----do you think the NAACP would sue to stop it, claiming segregation?--- |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3007
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 10:35 pm: | |
CC I'm in favor of whatever it takes for people to be taken care of. If that means gov't has to do it because that's the only way it gets done, so be it. If it were being done without gov't intervention it wouldn't be an issue. |
Ccbatson
Member
Username: Ccbatson
Post Number: 6106
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 8:19 pm: | |
How would you know if smaller government would get the job done, if it were never given a chance? |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3012
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 8:41 pm: | |
I never said smaller gov't couldn't get it done - just don't leave anyone hanging while getting smaller. |
Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 557
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 5:04 pm: | |
We should have toll roads to raise money to pay for SMART and DDOT. It's the big car drivers that have huge houses way out in the suburbs that should pay for Detroit and Livonia buses by charging them for clogging the freeways in our cities. |
The_recycling_people
Member
Username: The_recycling_people
Post Number: 59
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 10:54 am: | |
Yes. The Belle Isle/ Macarthur Bridge. |
The_ed
Member
Username: The_ed
Post Number: 688
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 11:00 am: | |
I say put a toll booth at the Belle Isle Bridge
What the hell is a "noob" ? ? ? |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5676
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 3:54 pm: | |
The_ed a "Noob" = "Noobie"
I was in a bad mood that day...  |
Hornist9
Member
Username: Hornist9
Post Number: 54
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 5:54 pm: | |
Well, I see we have no shortage of Reboobagains on this forum, I see the old blame Clinton by Iaintgotnostyle is alive and well. You've been attacked by a Jedi Mind Trick (it's so easy to work on the weak minded) by Georgie Porgie Boosh and the Evil lord Cheney...
Funny how we bitch about this. We have the highest load limits, we are a "donor" state in the fact that for every dollar we send in gasoline taxes to the Feds, we receive less than a dollar's worth of services. It's no damned wonder we've got some of the worst roads in the contiguous United States. Also, take a long look at the taxes we pay at the pump and the load of bullshit the oil companies give us about being at the end of the pipeline.
So Iaintgotnostlye, why don't you grow up and quit trolling. |
Schulzte1
Member
Username: Schulzte1
Post Number: 96
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 6:23 pm: | |
Toll Roads are a regressive tax just like cigarette taxes. The stockholders of this nation derive the most economic benefit from our interstate system, so let them pay for it. The person driving to work at McDonald's every day shouldn't pay the same share on a expressway as the person who owns 10,000 shares of McDonalds stock who benefits from all the low wage earners driving to work. |
Jrvass
Member
Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 300
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 6:26 pm: | |
Sinators Karl Lenin and Doobie Stabmenow toil hard (and have for years!) to get us back less than a $1 for every dollar we send to the Fed. govt. |
Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 560
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 6:55 pm: | |
Large steel boxes should be placed at freeway congestion points with s slot for money. The drivers can decide by putting money in for another lane or else too bad. Then the money that used to pay for the SMART Livonia buses can be given back to serve the minorities in Detroit. It's the big car owner who clog up the roads that have loads of money. It should not be those who work at the Livonia Wal-Mart or McDonalds that should have to pay for expanding freeways by giving up state fuel tax money for bus service |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 625
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 7:42 pm: | |
all the money michigan government has stolen and spent on other projects, supposedly going to roads, now they want a TOLL TAX? |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 626
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 7:48 pm: | |
how about if all the people who want to pay for better roads, outside of the gas tax we already endure, pay yourselves into a voluntary fund, I bet that fund would be next to zero. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3708
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 12:16 am: | |
quote:how about if all the people who want to pay for better roads, outside of the gas tax we already endure, pay yourselves into a voluntary fund, I bet that fund would be next to zero.
Oh, you poor thing. Nobody else in the U.S. pays gas taxes, except for the helpless folks in Michigan.
Don't like it? Don't drive. |
Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 561
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 5:54 am: | |
Lefty you say, QUOTE outside of the gas tax we already endure, pay yourselves into a voluntary fund, I bet that fund would be next to zero. END OF QUOTE. It is much larger then you might think, and is in the many tens of millions of dollars. Unfortunately, this is chump change compared to what is needed based on what SEMCOG tells us.
I think those that want bigger roads should pay. Or, you and I and the rest of Michigan could be paying a tax on restaurant food to expand our freeways.
Those that want the big freeways and roads look at us and say that we want the roads but it is them. I want steel boxes at the congestion points for donations because if they are empty then I can fight to get SMART back to Livonia by telling the public how cheap and miserly these road lobbyists are by using actual fact. Money talks.
Buses can remove cars from freeways and thats why I want more money raised for transportation. Since 1995, SEMOCG, MDOT, SMART, DDOT has not done enough too help fill up buses and have given us too many excuses. The full buses work. Please comment on my trainman website, if you please. |
Unclefrank
Member
Username: Unclefrank
Post Number: 112
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 7:00 am: | |
Why don't they (the State) just put an end to the Uber heavy trucks that pound our roads to dust. While they are at it, get the Mafia out of the road construction/repair bussiness in this state. |
Amiller
Member
Username: Amiller
Post Number: 7
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 5:35 pm: | |
Gas prices will creep up and drain our paychecks, while our taxes are thrown away at continuous road expansion and upgrade. But, if we plan ahead, and start thinking seriously about 1)developing and implementing alternative forms of energy, 2)an efficient and comprehensive mass transit system serving both suburb and city and 3)new development patterns respecting environmental, economic and social ecology, we (and our children) might avoid devastating consequences. Could converting highways to tolls and collecting the money for improvements & public transit work to push us in that direction? Who knows, but I know I wouldn't oppose it. Either way, we gotta curb our addiction to oil. |
Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman
Post Number: 562
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 6:02 pm: | |
The Livonia SMART opt out is physical evidence that Michigan is a backward state in relationship to public transportation and new roads.
It was not the choice of the city of Livonia voters to opt. out. The majority voted NO for DARTA or Wal-Mart.
Wal-Mart publicly refused to support SMART by ignoring the residents concerns about traffic and the needs of the workers who use SMART and DDOT.
Let's put SMART back on the ballot and leave what works alone. Unless, someone comes up with a better idea first. Like actually protecting state and federal funds and encouraging more industry support for example.
Merging two public bus systems without sharing the routes or common time tables or protecting the viable funding mechanism of the state fuel tax is not the answer to improving our transportation system or getting federal transit grants. |
Jrvass
Member
Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 305
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 7:00 pm: | |
Tax credits that allow employees who can to telecommute! |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 630
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 7:31 pm: | |
OK, how about if cities start charging $5.00 to enter their cities, would that satisfy you?
Just what the hell this state needs, another goddamn traffic jam on freeways to ease out commute.
I'm happy to pay a gas tax, the problem is that our tax sucking politicians put the money into a fund and spend it on their boondoggle projects to help their political contributors on other non related projects.
http://www.heartland.org/Artic le.cfm?artId=15969
http://www.michiganscienceonli ne.org/article.aspx?ID=6797
If you love big government overspending and waste and using tax money to buy votes then I guess you are for another tax program like toll roads to waste my money.
I don't know how many of you have been to the east coast or Chicago, but the tolls are a pain in the ass. |
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1444
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 8:39 pm: | |
Raise the gas tax to the necessary level, and stop dipping into property and other taxes to pay for road projects. Fine with me.
I live in Chicago, and the tolls are only a pain in the ass to tourists, which is kind of the point. Everyone who drives them regularly (even those who don't, like me) has the I-PASS, which means you don't need to stop or even slow down for tolls.
(Message edited by focusonthed on November 07, 2007) |
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