  Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2467 Registered: 06-2006 |
...If you want to call it a development boom...I suppose it was mostly existing structures being renovated, but it's still better than anything the city has seen in a while... Either way, there have been no announcements of new projects lately, the capital market have tightened up, and the typical downtown buyer will no longer be getting approved for those $200-300k lofts in downtown Detroit... So has the wave passed? (Message edited by thejesus on October 18, 2007) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10547 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: What is the typical downtown buyer. Most people that I know that live downtown/midtown bought with a standard 30 year mortgage they can afford. There is still a fair amount of work going on but they are smaller projects and the inventory is probably building up a bit too fast. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2470 Registered: 06-2006 |
there's work going on right now, but not much planned for the future from what I'm seeing Any projects that were already in progress when the capital market crunch hit will likely be cheaper to finish than abandon... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 10548 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I would assume so but we will see. A lot of projects may still be looked at but a lot of investors/developers are probably waiting to see how the financial industry comes out of this whole mess. | ||
Beatsworking Member Username: Beatsworking Post Number: 97 Registered: 08-2004 |
I'm pretty sure developers will wait to see how successful this wave (of development) is before investing more. If the BC, Griswold, @twater, Watermark, etc. are all successful, I would expect a wave a commercial development to support the new residents, and then another wave of residential development, and so om. Wouldn't it seem silly to oversaturate such an un-proven market? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2471 Registered: 06-2006 |
^I'd still put @twater and the Watermark in the category of projects that might not happen They're part of the next wave, not the current wave | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 347 Registered: 09-2006 |
I think we are in a catch up period now. It seems like a good majority of developments announced are actually proceeding ( unlike prior years) with only a few ( like 1001 Woodward) not.. This is actually a pretty good pace so far, I think the emphasis now is to complete and fill the existing inventory.. If this happens with the BC and the Casinos opening, I think it bodes well for Downtown.. We can't expect miracles but we are definitely on the right track , especially considering the current economic climate. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3146 Registered: 10-2003 |
The Watermark seems to have steam yet. There are a bunch of related events posted on the website. http://www.watermarkdetroit.co m/home.html | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 250 Registered: 10-2006 |
The picture of the Amb bridge at night is Wonderful!! under nieghborhood | ||
Detroitrulez Member Username: Detroitrulez Post Number: 473 Registered: 12-2006 |
Thejesus--why do you want to stop detroit from rising? | ||
Spitty Member Username: Spitty Post Number: 625 Registered: 07-2004 |
Because on the third day he rose again in accordance with the scriptures so that's kind of his thing and he doesn't want Detroit to copy it. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 440 Registered: 04-2006 |
No, the development of Detroit is not over. I believe that the mini boom that we experienced over the last decade has resulted in a "locking-in" of sorts of a permanent change. At least for the greater downtown area. It may have slowed, but from here on out, we'll have different levels of speedy and slow development periods. But like I said, it will all be part of a new, permanent interest and investment.  | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 514 Registered: 03-2007 |
still to come: Greektown casino expansion and 20 story hotel. Book Cadillac Fort Shelby Griswald capital park Motor city casino expansion an hotel Eastern market renovation expanded river walk watermark @ water 2009 final four | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 1012 Registered: 11-2003 |
32 story hotel, new bars, restaraunts, buffet, expanded casino, attached 3000 car garage, convention space and a new 1500 seat theatre/multi function room. 300MM in new investment for Detroit, just in the Greektown district alone. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 423 Registered: 07-2007 |
the boom is on hold. people always move but job growth stall has slowed the velocity. real estate goes usually in 5-8 year cycles, and i would bet in 3-4 years another big boom will occur, obviously my own guestimation. save your money | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 4382 Registered: 10-2004 |
The R/E industry hasn't been cyclical for decades. And, it's not really cyclical because by its very definition, a cycle brings one to where one was previously. The optimistic industry watchers/security analysts say it'll be down for a relatively short time--some say three to five years. However, the most pessimistic among them say the bloated and vastly overpriced inventories might take twenty to thirty years to return to 2006 levels, in constant dollars. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 408 Registered: 11-2003 |
I disagree with "saving your money." You buy low and sell high. NOW is the time for deals. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3811 Registered: 02-2005 |
Wow...somebody's an optimist. Downtown development can/will keep rolling through the economic slump if developers actually set their sights a bit lower. Don't go all out trying to create well-appointed lofts. Rehab a building, make it livable, put apartments up for rent, save some money, and then when the financial climate is more favorable, convert/partially convert to upscale condos. Additionally, more major events will be occuring in the city again, and places like the new Greektown Hotel and Book-Cadillac will make a huge splash when they open. Capitol Park will move slow and steady. Additionally, retail in downtown should slowly/steadily improve. The population of workers is actually increasing. More people are moving into One Kennedy as we speak, Wayne County is consolidating workers into downtown, and keep your eye on Bank of America. Meanwhile, I see no reason to believe that the E. Riverfront will be a bust. I'd like to see at least one of the developments break ground within 6 months, but I think it will go at at least the pace of Brush Park's redevelopment. Detroit has had a momentum fairly independant of the region for several years now. That will not change, even in the face of larger barriers. As long as Kilpatrick is mayor, we will continue to have this momentum. ^^Before you try to decide whether that was sarcastic or not, let me just say that it is part true, part sarcasm. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 425 Registered: 07-2007 |
the time for deals depends on your financial analysis of the deal. real estate will always be on a local level. if i knew the exact time i would be a billionaire. | ||
Texorama Member Username: Texorama Post Number: 78 Registered: 12-2006 |
Strongly agree with Mackinaw's first paragraph. Now's the time, with the $300,000 condos slowing down a bit, to focus on some decent apartment builidngs where young people who go to St. Andrew's but then drive back to Troy at the end of the night could actually live. | ||
Davetroit Member Username: Davetroit Post Number: 36 Registered: 03-2007 |
I agree that we need more rental product developed in the market. Regardless of the economic climate, these projects should experience better absorbtion. For someone moving from the suburbs, it's much easier to commit to a 6-12 month lease than a mortgage if unsure whether city living is for them or not. Kales is currently at 93% occupancy, and I believe that both Merchant's Row and the Farbman Woodward Place lofts are in the 80's. Depending on their experience and circumstances, chances are that many of these residents may consider purchasing a condo down the road. Historic tax credits require the owners to hold the property for at least 5 yrs (ex. Kales, MR, and Farbman WPL). This encourages the development of historic buildings into apartments (while they may eventually go condo like the 3 aforementioned). Regardless of how nicely finished some new construction may be, I think that more suburbanites are attracted to historic rehabs - it's one of the reasons to make the move. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3812 Registered: 02-2005 |
Well said. Plenty of reasons to support rentals. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 424 Registered: 11-2003 |
Agreed. Completely. I don't know if the numbers all work for that - but if it can work, it should be done. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5536 Registered: 08-2004 |
OK, but didn't Ndavies say that "not a single condo has come online yet downtown?" Maybe the Broderick will have to reconsider their decision to go from rental to condo? (Message edited by Gistok on October 18, 2007) | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 186 Registered: 04-2007 |
I was always hopeful the Broderick would turn into some moderately priced rental apartments. The people buying the current lot of luxury condos would rather take their limo where ever they're going rather than walk to local businesses. In downtown I think the ship has passed, so be ready for the wake. once the big projects (BC, Fort Shelby, Riverwalk, Tiger Stadium, ext.) are done, I think they will help keep some of the "boom" going. The big development will bring smaller development to later. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2473 Registered: 06-2006 |
"still to come: Greektown casino expansion and 20 story hotel. Book Cadillac Fort Shelby Griswald capital park Motor city casino expansion an hotel Eastern market renovation expanded river walk watermark @ water 2009 final four" That's all part of the current boom...many of these projects were announced years ago... But there haven't been any announcement for a while, so once these projects are all built, then what? Does it stop? | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 3150 Registered: 10-2003 |
What type of developments are you looking for exactly? http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/livernoiswarren11 507.aspx http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/hausner11407.aspx Here's a couple interesting ones from ModelD. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 351 Registered: 09-2006 |
No, it does not stop at all, sometimes you need to take a moment and realize the development. Once these current projects are built we will see elements of a "new" downtown vision. This will bring other investments several years later. The proper mix is now being realized, .. commercial, entertainment, residential.. that is the formula for retail to start to appear. It all happens in stages, some slower than others. Its taken us ages to get to this point of formulation but one good walk around downtown shows we are finally on track. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6697 Registered: 02-2004 |
If our economy is P.U! and our unemployment in Michigan has increased to least 10%, Then the development of Downtown Detroit will be a major bust. All of hopes and dreams for a better Downtown Detroit and its ghettohoods will be lost all because of our Mississippian and Appalachian instincts mixed in with the racial ideology of xenophobicism institutionalized segregation. | ||
Umcs Member Username: Umcs Post Number: 216 Registered: 06-2007 |
Danny: Que? | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 536 Registered: 08-2007 |
Umcs, I just love that episode; I also love the one where Manuel sets each table one fork at a time...it is kind of analagous to the Detroit development "strategy". | ||
Refugee2005 Member Username: Refugee2005 Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2007 |
Until someone downtown or in Lansing finally realizes that jobs move to states that make business easier, not more difficult, at best things will be static. I came to Texas two years ago because I could not find an engineering job for four years better than unskilled labor. I'm making auto parts for a Tier 2 near Dallas. We buy steel from a processor on Joy Road, truck it to Texas, stamp parts that ship to London, Ontario, make a profit and still pay our people about the same as a small Macomb County shop. No state income tax, Marlboros at $40 a carton, no MIOSHA. Engler cut taxes and paperwork, and the unemployment rate was a full percent below the national average, now it's near the worst in the country. I hear Jeff Daniels doing move to Michigan ads on local radio stations. The only way they can sell this is to give all sorts of exemptions to the rules and taxes. Maybe if they didn't have the rules and taxes in the first place, the jobs would come anyway, and the current jobs wouldn't leave. And for any of you that want to blame NAFTA for all this, consider that if all those jobs went to Mexico, why are a quarter of all Mexican men between 18 and 40 in this country? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3814 Registered: 02-2005 |
Nice post, welcome. I listened to an NPR interview of a commercial farmer in California last week who said that his crop is being wasted because their aren't ENOUGH immigrant workers being allowed in. He pays more than the generous Cali minimum wage, so that says alot. That's kind of a side-discussion, but immigration into Detroit would of course be great for the city. It is stabilizing other once-distressed cities like Newark and Philly right now. Your post gets at the problems that are hindering our regional economy. Detroit downtown development has kind of been its own thing for awhile. It's thrived off a new stream (although sometimes it seems more like a trickle) of interest in urban living and going downtown in general. So, while the region is not growing economically, Detroit has received transplants from the suburbs and some from other cities, because it has its own momentum, it has entertainment etc., and it's added downtown jobs as SE Michigan companies like Compuware have located in the city. IF the region could grow at a macro level-- and you give us some ways to enable that-- then new employers would inevitably come, and some of those would locate in the city. That would certainly increase the actual inflow of people to the city and region. A more prosperous Detroit with a strong service sector would also then attract more immigrants. | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 545 Registered: 06-2007 |
I agree with a few of the fellow posters here, Danny and Jt1. Alot of people have high hopes for redevelopment & new developments to happen. But like someone mention alot of contract companies are waiting to see where the economy is going & how the unemployment situation in the state is fairing. Sometimes you gotta face the facts. If the economic situation is looking towards their liking you probably won't see alot of work due to budget concerns due to the economy. We will see the Cadillac & Fort Shelby get their share of work done, but alot of places like the Broderick Tower might not see any light shown onto any projects. Alot of peoples budgets are getting tight & tighter here. No offense I might see myself moving come March if I can't find a job with a decent salary here. Don't mean to jump the ship & leave the state...but you gotta do what you gotta do to survive & make a decent income. Sorry if ive annoyed some people with some of my rants...it's just that ive lived in areas that had bad economic times & turned themselves around...mostly unlike what has been going here. It seems like everything is moving slow as a turtle or more backwards. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2813 Registered: 10-2003 |
Did all of you flunk Econ 101? There are plenty of for rent units available downtown in both modern and historic buildings. Everything from luxury to the real crappy. All of it offered at extremely low rates. Until that oversupply is absorbed and rental rates start to trend up, you will see very little in the way of new rental projects. The developer needs to pull much higher rental rates to be profitable with the high price of the base building, materials, labor and the increased cost of doing business in the city. If the developer can't cover the rehab and maintenance with the rents, the buildings is not going to be renovated. If the Developer's math is bad he's going to lose his ass at todays rent rates. There's a reason those incentives are needed. Rental rates are currently not high enough to support the rehab of buildings. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3816 Registered: 02-2005 |
Millender, New Cadillac Square, Trolley Plaza, Kales, Fyfe (my favorite)... Where are the smaller-scale options? There's space in the market for some of the smaller downtown buildings to be made into appealing rentals rather easily. Is the Carlton in Brush Park for purchase or rent? I know they've had trouble filling it, and if it is not for-rent, I can see the reason why. Got an A in honors 101 at Wayne, NDav. (Message edited by mackinaw on October 19, 2007) | ||
Refugee2005 Member Username: Refugee2005 Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2007 |
I moved here in the late 80's from Chicago, and bought a house on Dresden near State Fair. My coworkers in Troy thought I was insane, but then it was a nice place. Even with a lot of experience with the South Side and Gary, it still astounded me how badly gutted neighborhoods could get here. One thing I found was the scrap dealers are MUCH more tightly watched there, and regularly go to jail for buying stripped aluminum siding or copper. There is NO trade in used plumbing fixtures allowed. It's probably too little too late for Detroit, but banning some of this might help. I knew landlords that bought this stuff, then bitched when their places were hit. DUH!••• Anyone want a house on Dresden? | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 515 Registered: 03-2007 |
charrage house apts on washington blvd, across from Trolley plaza. Once a senior building, very clean good rates. Town Apt. Well its at the crossroad. Greektown lofts Harmony park lofts Windsor Towers Apt, 22 story highrise, once senior, In laffeyette PArk area, but a block from gratiot, very close to easten market. brush park has a couple well kept apt buildings on brush, minute walks to ford field. Rosa Parks transit center Demolished Ford Auditorium(future) Renovated Hart Plaza(Future) Clark lofts, Grand river one blk from woodward. Broadway lofts, one block from YMCA(opening soon) | ||
Billk Member Username: Billk Post Number: 143 Registered: 09-2005 |
Just Wednesday, the Ilitches recieved a $750,000 tax credit to renovate the Detroit Life Building. | ||
Billk Member Username: Billk Post Number: 145 Registered: 09-2005 |
And Oslo is reopening... | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2578 Registered: 11-2003 |
Compared to 10 years ago, there still is a boom going on in Downtown Detroit and Midtown especially given the local economy. I know at least 2 couples interested in buying Downtown lofts if they can ever sell their suburban homes. Kind of a backlash of the housing crash. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 439 Registered: 07-2007 |
One thing I found was the scrap dealers are MUCH more tightly watched there, and regularly go to jail for buying stripped aluminum siding or copper. There is NO trade in used plumbing fixtures allowed. city council tried to do something, but not much came of it, they can't think that far ahead. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2603 Registered: 11-2003 |
Scrapping laws and enforcement would hel, it is real issue with people trying to rehab properties. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 2476 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Just Wednesday, the Ilitches recieved a $750,000 tax credit to renovate the Detroit Life Building." But that project was announced more than a year ago. | ||
Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules Post Number: 217 Registered: 01-2007 |
HAHAHA No. It hasn't passed. | ||
Lifeinmontage Member Username: Lifeinmontage Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2007 |
"And Oslo is reopening..." any more details? a date? will it be in the same location? |
