Terryh Member Username: Terryh
Post Number: 548 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 8:11 pm: | |
Its common knowledge that Howell Mich. was one of the bases for the KKK, and that skinhead groups are spread throughout the state. When I worked in Sterling Heights a young co-worker was a member of the World Church Of The Creator. I seen some of their stickers in the area. Michael Moore hosted a documentary called Blood In The Face which features several Michigan white racist as well several militias.The KKK has a P.O box in Fraser. This one loud mouthed young punk used to stand in front of Caribou in Royal Oak with his its a white thing confederate flag t-shirt and wasnt afraid to blurt his pro white sentiments. Surprisingly ive seen a few around Royal Oak. I would expect to see them in rural communities and working class white suburbs-neighborhoods. Based on research ive done out of personal interest I can identify racist symbols on jackets, tattoos; t-shirts etc. Recommended reading: The Racist Mind. A Jewish professor associates with and studies white supemeists and seperatist groups. |
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge
Post Number: 247 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 8:14 pm: | |
and....? these guys exist everywhere, in small numbers. |
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge
Post Number: 248 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 8:14 pm: | |
actually, let me say that again: these ASSHOLES exist everywhere, in small numbers. |
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3964 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 8:57 pm: | |
Howell is not a racist town from my experience. That reputation stems from the fact that a somewhat notorious figure in the Klan, Robert Miles, once lived there. To say that Howell itself was a "base" for the Klan is an exaggeration. |
Ghetto_butterfly Member Username: Ghetto_butterfly
Post Number: 763 Registered: 09-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 9:08 pm: | |
quote:Howell is not a racist town from my experience Right. So what about that much media-discussed incident of a business owner who had "real" KKK outfits for sale and proudly displayed them in his store window? Ok, it may have been Holly, not Howell, same difference. |
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3966 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 9:11 pm: | |
Holly and Howell? There is a difference. The guy in HOWELL selling the Klan stuff is an asshole who is being condemned by the residents of the city. He claims to be doing it for "historical reasons." |
Gnome Member Username: Gnome
Post Number: 212 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 9:26 pm: | |
Perfect, From personal, hands on, first person experience I can attest to Howell's less enlightened past. Still won't stop there. No way, no how. I'm sure it different now, but can't get past my experience in that Cracker barrel. I apologize for being so closed minded, but can't help it. Oh, btw, since when did Howell become a Detroit suburb? A lansing suburb maybe. |
Track75 Member Username: Track75
Post Number: 2652 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 9:42 pm: | |
quote:I'm sure it different now, but can't get past my experience in that Cracker barrel. I apologize for being so closed minded, but can't help it. Doesn't sound much different than what some white guy who left Detroit in 1971 would say about Detroit. Lotta baggage up in here. |
Plymouthres Member Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 204 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 10:13 pm: | |
I don't mean to correct you PG, but Cohoctah was the home of Robert Miles, and has therefore always been rumored to be the hotbed of racial upheaval. Howell is inappropriately roped into that stereotype due to it's proximity. The fact that an off duty State trooper was beaten down in a bar there a few years ago re-fueled that speculation because the cop was black and he was apparently dancing with a a white woman. I don't remember the outcome, but the whole incident was not good. Although I do not have a ton of experience with the white supremists, they are a very, very small segment of white society, I can assure you. Most of us white folk would like to just try to get along. |
Plymouthres Member Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 205 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 10:18 pm: | |
By the way, the auction house that got the heat on the KKK robe sale was merely auctioning off these items on consignment. They almost put the guy out of business with the uproar that was caused by the sale. After all, one of the largest collectors of these type of "artifacts" is Chris Weber. I believe he is correct to preserve these items for all to see so that we may "never forget". |
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5
Post Number: 618 Registered: 06-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 10:24 pm: | |
I spend a lot of time in Howell and can tell you that it's no more of a racist community than any other rural Michigan town. If you're black and by yourself it's probably prudent to avoid some of the local dive bars, but the same can be said about being white and visiting some majority black establishments in Detroit. It's not "Diversity Street USA", but it's not a place one should avoid if they don't happen to be a blue-eyed blonde. Also to once again clear up the KKK rumors about Howell. Robert Miles NEVER lived in Howell! He lived in nearby Cohoctah. That being said if one considers Howell and Holly the same place they probably won't give much credit to the difference between Howell and Cohoctah Twp. |
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5
Post Number: 619 Registered: 06-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 10:31 pm: | |
Plymouthres the assault you mentioned was not in Howell but in Brighton, MI. I used to frequent that bar in my early twenties and it really was not the type of place you would expect to have racial problems. Considering it's location it actually drew a reasonably diverse crowd. |
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 3978 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 11:24 pm: | |
OK, Cohoctah, I stand corrected. Most people don't know where that is so they say Howell because it is the nearest larger city. Howell does get a bad rap for no good reason. Holly, on the other hand, is also a lovely little town with a ridiculously low crime rate. Any one of us would be safer than most anywhere in the metro area, regardless of color. |
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 220 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 11:29 pm: | |
Its getting attention because its an outlying area of the Metro Detroit area, so word travels to these parts. Go even further out and Im sure it gets worse. A lot of people in rural areas still have an old mentality/school of thought. But it goes both ways. There are places in Michigan I would be careful about as a white man. Benton Harbor comes to mind. Nothing really in the Detroit area as much, though, Id say. |
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 324 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 11:46 pm: | |
"Ok, it may have been Holly, not Howell, same difference." Are you saying that in jest, Ghetto Butterfly? If not, that was awfully ignorant statement. (Detroit, Hamtramck...same goddamn thing). |
Hudkina Member Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 66 Registered: 12-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 12:50 am: | |
I do think it is funny that a few instances of racial hatred often paints a particular city or region in one broad stroke. I would bet that if you asked all 10,000 residents in Howell whether they would prefer to live next to a "minority" family or a "racist", I'm sure few people would pick the "racist". That's not to say that people don't have stereotypical views or are ignorant about certain racial issues, but it's not as if a mob would form if an african american family moved into the city... The same could be said on the flip side. Detroit's largely African-American population would probably pick the option to live next to a white family over the "racist" even though certain racial-tensions exist between cultures. Most Americans tend to generalize when it comes to people who are different from them, but often when it comes down to the individual (which is far more important) most people are more open. |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 876 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 1:29 am: | |
Shit, Hud, to "generalize when it comes to people who are different from them" is what the term "racism" basically means. Example: I lived in a lily-white 'burb, and a black family moved onto my block. A neighbor, thinking that would bother me (which it didn't), tried to reassure me by telling me "they were the good kind; they mow their lawn and keep their house up and everything". If that's not racism, what the hell is? By the way Livingston County is slightly more notorious than others, but really no worse. I read in a paper two years ago that there was a cross burning (how old-fashioned) in a neighborhood I had lived in several years prior. That was in Macomb County. Idiots are everywhere. What I always wondered about the KKK and such groups is, what is their market position? I mean, how do you find the right kind of ignoramus to join a group like that, and what message do you deliver to such people? Is there any kind of ad campaign? "You and the KKK" or some such? I've never seen an ad for "join the KKK" in the Metro Times for instance, even though such a publication that is liberal enough to let prostitutes advertise would surely give the same consideration to hate groups. Just wondering. PS: If you take this post too seriously, go to the fridge, grab a Labatt's, drink it and try again. |
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku
Post Number: 1645 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 1:32 am: | |
i hate hate groups |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 878 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 1:45 am: | |
They aren't worth hating. You're expending more energy on them than they deserve. I'm not even sure they're worth pitying. |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 879 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 1:48 am: | |
Example: we went to a county fair just a bit north of metro Detroit. Guy has a tent where he's selling stuff, and he is flying a confederate flag next to the tent. The stuff he's selling is mostly harmless, but we (my wife and I) object to the flag, as it is among other things a racist icon. So all we did was, not buy anything from that guy. God bless him, he can fly any flag he wants, fly the swastika if the mood strikes him. But we don't have to give him our money. That's all you have to do. More than that, you're wasting your time and energy. |
Gnome Member Username: Gnome
Post Number: 214 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 7:08 am: | |
So it seems that in Metro Detroit, there is kook in Royal Oak, there used to be KKKooks in Howell 30 years ago, and someone at a county fair displayed the Rebel flag. It sounds like we are a hot bed of hate groups. Does anyone want to tell us about Yakub and his creation of a race of blue-eyed white devils? Sounds pretty hateful to me. |
The_ed Member Username: The_ed
Post Number: 115 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 9:33 am: | |
I have a plumber friend here in Detroit who is a member of a group of re-enacters of the Civil War. He told me once that we as Black folks should not shun the confederate flag because it represents the freedom that we once fought for. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10512 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 11:31 am: | |
Don't forget the incidents in the last few months of a cross burning in Taylor on the lawns of a black family that just moved in. There was also a case of (I can't recall where but it was downriver) of the black family whose house was burned down. Someone chose to break a window and dump gasoline in the home and ignite it. There may not be as many vocal organized groups but there are still a lot of violent racists out there. Of course we can also think back to the case of the two guys that chose to paint the Joe Louis fist white. Funny how many people insisted that it wasn't racist. Looking the other way doesn't help the situation. |
Plymouthres Member Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 208 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 11:52 am: | |
The_ed- He was mis-informed. The flag, to many, still represents the South and therefore slavery. The flag is also the symbol to others that you "think" the same. The only freedom they were fighting for was that of slave owners. |
Gnome Member Username: Gnome
Post Number: 215 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 12:34 pm: | |
Jt1- I googled, Taylor, Michigan cross burning and found US Dept of Justice press release about a man who in May of this year plead guilty to ethnic intimidation for a 2002 incident. http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/20 07/April/07_crt_293.html I looked for firebombing, detroit and did find a reference to a black grandmother who was killed a couple of months ago and another incident where a 40 yr old white woman died after having her house firebombed twice. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070823/NEW S01/70823039/1003 http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/14247036/detail.html?subi d=10100241 I think we're lucky that today, the vast majority of society view these incidents as the work of cretins. Never heard who was behind those firebombings of the grandmother or the white woman. Did you? |
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker
Post Number: 1911 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 12:58 pm: | |
Michigan map of active hate groups 2006, Southern Poverty Law Center |
The_ed Member Username: The_ed
Post Number: 132 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 1:11 pm: | |
Plymouthres: I agree with you. My plumber friend is close to 70 years old and set in his ways. He's been doing this re-enacting thing for a long time. Fort Wayne sponsors this activity for inner city youth to give them a look at the past. THE PAST! |
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4001 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 1:17 pm: | |
Meanwhile Louis Farrakhan comes to town and is welcomed warmly by all local black leaders and much of the black community. His separatist agenda and open hatred of Jews is largely excused. |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 3116 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 1:19 pm: | |
Whats up with this one Hornwrecker? Petoskey - Social Contract Press - General Hate General hate? What, they can't decide who to hate, so they just hate everyone in general? |
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude
Post Number: 238 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 1:51 pm: | |
Wikipedia used to have a notation that Westland was home to the American Nazi Party. But I never found much else confirming that. Edit: Well, just now I read Hornwrecker's link. There's Westland on it for ANP. yikes! (Message edited by Catman_Dude on October 17, 2007) |
Gnome Member Username: Gnome
Post Number: 216 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 1:54 pm: | |
yikes, hornwrecker, that's one heck of a list. |
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4009 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 2:01 pm: | |
I see the Nation of Islam is on that list. |
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa
Post Number: 1726 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 2:04 pm: | |
quote:The organizations in this category are subdivided into six smaller categories. They include anti-gay groups, organizations that go beyond mere disagreement with homosexuality by subjecting gays and lesbians to campaigns of personal vilification; Holocaust denial groups that insist that Nazi Germany did not engage in a conscious attempt to commit genocide against European Jews; racist music groups, typically white power music labels that record, publish and distribute racist music in a variety of genres; and "radical traditionalist Catholic" groups, organizations that embrace anti-Semitism and whose theology is typically rejected by the Vatican and mainstream Catholics in general. A final "other" sub-category includes groups espousing a variety of hateful doctrines. Yup, sounds pretty "general" to me. |
Beavis1981 Member Username: Beavis1981
Post Number: 613 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 2:14 pm: | |
One thing to remember- Howell is a mostly rural suburb. Just because they are not marching down the streets does not mean they are gone. I ran into one there campfires looking for a dog 3 yrs ago. Trust me they are still there. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 10516 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 2:15 pm: | |
quote:Meanwhile Louis Farrakhan comes to town and is welcomed warmly by all local black leaders and much of the black community. His separatist agenda and open hatred of Jews is largely excused. You are mistaken that all black leaders welcome him. Many people think that he is speaking hate. Generalizing is easier though. Gnome - Sheer coincidence it was in the paper today. The look out of the people that set the Taylor home on fire was sentenced. The article is in the news and freep. |
Iaintgotnostyle Member Username: Iaintgotnostyle
Post Number: 46 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 2:28 pm: | |
Racism is big money and we are never going to stop it as long as there remains uneducated and underprivliged people in this world. These are the people racists llike the klan, skinheads,nazis, Sharpton, Farakhan and the Black Panthers prey upon. In all seriousness, how many educated, upper middle class (or higher) racists do you honestly know or even heard of? Not many, only a few that preach this racist shit in order to line their pockets and further their own selfish and greedy agendas. What we all need to do is forgive each other for all the wrongs that humanity has done thus far to one another and help each other move the fuck on. But unfortunately this won't be possible until the majority of us that want peace amongst ourselves get rid of these hate mongers. (Message edited by iaintgotnostyle on October 17, 2007) |
Gnome Member Username: Gnome
Post Number: 217 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 2:49 pm: | |
Jt1- Couldn't find the reference on freep.com, but I'm glad the fool will soon be buns-up in Jackson. It's just too bad that Louis Farrakhan gets any welcome at all. I admire the whole, support you're own, mantra but anything he says comes rooted in a very bizare belief system. I'd go into it, but I'd like someone else tell us about the race of blue-eyed white devils being invented by an angry african scientist. wow, that makes for good reading. |
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 4010 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 2:58 pm: | |
quote:You are mistaken that all black leaders welcome him. Many people think that he is speaking hate. Generalizing is easier though. Conyers, Kilpatrick, Anita Baker, Russell Simmons, the Detroit City council and 50,000 people at Ford Field. At least the racist groups in the suburbs are limited to a few dead-enders with no real power or following. Not the case with this guy though. |
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 3534 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 6:29 pm: | |
Yow! Detnews.com had a facelift! Man gets 8 years for hate crime |