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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 11694
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On another thread, where upon I criticized the job of our governor and the direction we are headed in, somebody made note of my recent comments about how far the city has come in the past 5 years. Noting, how I am essentially "blown away," by the night and day difference compared to when I first moved here.

Admittedly, I truly believe that Detroit is finally heading in the right direction. New developments continue to happen in the city. Companies moving from the suburbs to the city continue to make headlines, as to speculations about other companies planning the same move.

From our parks, to our casinos, new lofts, to our new homes, Detroit seems to be on the rise. The same however can't be said for our state. In a speech not long ago, I believe during the state of the city address, Mr Kilpatrick said something to the effect of Lansing needs to wake up, that Detroit needs to be worried about Detroit, and fend for itself. Detroit seems headed in the right direction, thought the same can't be said for our state.

While the city battles to lower property taxes, rolling out NEZ zones to neighborhoods across the city, Lansing is looking for ways to tax us more. The city continues to take necessary steps to balance the budget, while Lansing prefers to simply raise taxes, bicker over how to do so, and threaten a government shutdown.

For all of the negative press our city, as well as our mayor receive, I would have to say that the city of Detroit is beginning to seem better run than our state.

Our state government needs a wake up call, perhaps a shutdown wouldn't be so bad. Maybe even lay off a few of our politicians, put them on unemployment for awhile, taking away their tax payer supplied cars as well. Make them feel the pain of out state's economy, instead of passing along that pay to it's citizens via higher taxes.

What's your take, is Detroit increasingly in better shape than Michigan as a state? Or are my rose colored glasses blinding me from the obvious?
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 2640
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Our state government needs a wake up call, perhaps a shutdown wouldn't be so bad."

The problem with that is it hurts Michigan's image to businesses who might consider locating here. I'm also not sure how it would effect the state's credit rating.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1563
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who would have thought that the city council and mayor would agree on more things than our governor and legislature. That tells us two things: first, how relation in city government have improved and how it is in fact showing improvements in the city. And second, how stupid and bad out state government has become.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1564
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The problem with a state shutdown, is it will make us look worse to prospective companies looking to invest in the state than and combination of taxes and other things we argue about here. It we show the nation our government cannot even keep its doors open, why would they want to bring their company here.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 3326
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sport, while I largely agree with you, Michigan has been doing nothing but cutting taxes nonstop for the past 15 years or so. The status quo is the result of self-deprivation, so to speak.

To say that Michigan's problems stem from Lansing's desire to always raise taxes--when in fact, the pending shutdown is due precisely to cutting revenue sources (and not finding a replacement)--is simply disingenuous, misleading, and flat-out wrong on your part.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1671
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do think Detroit is heading in the right direction, but it's fate is inevitably tied to Michigan's. The catch 22 is Detroit is (or should be) the centerpiece for Michigan.

The politics there are strangling everybody now, no matter what party. I was living in New York during the last gubernatorial election, and the political squabbles here in NYS are tame compared to the dirt that gets thrown by politicians in Michigan. Everybody is also seemingly on the same page about keeping NYC a big economic engine to drive the state (and tri-state). You don't get that in Michigan. Everybody wants to go into their own corner and do it their own way, then scratch their heads about why everybody is running for the exit.

New Jersey politics seem to be a little more reminiscent of Michigan. A little more corruption and political bickering, but that state benefits from being situated between two of the largest cities in the country. It also cooperates very well with New York to remain integrated into the economy of the tri-state. New Jersey cooperates much more trouble free with NYC than the suburbs or Lansing does with Detroit.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1672
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And tax rates in this area are also such a non-issue. People seem a lot more concerned with services (transportation, infrastructure maintenance) and jobs to pay those taxes.
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Raggedclaws
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Username: Raggedclaws

Post Number: 54
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is Detroit in increasingly better shape than the State of Michigan ??

Utterly ridiculous question.

And tax rates in this area a non-issue ? Please get a clue.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 343
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

And tax rates in this area a non-issue ? Please get a clue.



Well, if you're lucky enough to already live in an NEZ, they are a non-issue.

quote:

Detroit seems to be on the rise. The same however can't be said for our state.



This coming from a life-long state resident who finally visited Lake Huron last year.

I think you need to travel around the state a bit before making that statement. There are numerous areas in our state that have long ago disassociated themselves with the auto industry, or never got involved with the auto industry, that were/are doing OK without a "thriving" Detroit, even during these hard economic times. These areas are the voting public (who actually vote, mind you) who are sick and tired of paying for the band-aid covering a permanent sore of the Saginaw/Flint/Detroit rust-belt.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1567
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GO to Downtown Grand Rapids and Dds's statement really makes sense. The westside of the state is really thriving, between the DeVos empire and Stryker Corp, the westside has a lot going for it.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1673
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And tax rates in this area a non-issue ? Please get a clue.

How about deciphering the context of the sentence?

Taxes here, meaning where I am - New York, which I made clear in the post right above it.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1674
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GO to Downtown Grand Rapids and Dds's statement really makes sense. The westside of the state is really thriving, between the DeVos empire and Stryker Corp, the westside has a lot going for it.

But the population in Michigan is heavily weighted in metro-Detroit... Therefore, so goes Detroit goes Michigan.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1569
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed, but that also points to once and if the auto industry can have a rebound, our state will improve. Just look at how we are now starting to attract outside investment in aerospace thanks to our excess of engineers due to auto industry downsizing. The talent is here, now the jobs are slowly coming.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 344
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

But the population in Michigan is heavily weighted in metro-Detroit... Therefore, so goes Detroit goes Michigan.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the Metro Detroit area been bleeding population profusely lately? At least I seem to remember a few threads based on that topic.

Combine that with the fact that other areas, even the rural, tourism based areas, are getting larger, and creating their own locally based economies independent of Detroit, Metro Detroit will not be a voting majority, at least.

A silly scenario I've wondered about was what if someone ran for governor on a "to hell with Detroit" platform. Would the rest of the state rally around it?
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1675
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^Well, the thing about the auto industry is that they are suffering most from government policy than any loss of marketshare. I think GM would gladly accept the #2 automaker slot in exchange for the government shouldering some of the cost of healthcare right about now.

The President has made it very clear that his administration will not support any type of nationalization of health care, which pretty much all of the foreign competitors of American automakers benefit from through their home governments.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1676
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>Dds

Growth in Metro Detroit has been stagnant, not declining. But Metro Detroit is still about 5 times as large as Grand Rapids Metro, which is the second largest metro in Michigan.
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Wazootyman
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Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 257
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't say that west Michigan is thriving. It is less tied to the automotive industry for sure, but still heavily manufacturing based, and their employment numbers reflect that. GR's recent building 'boom' has been based solely on the medical sector (actually, much like the hospital boom around here), but I question how well medical alone can sustain an economy.

There are many small manufacturing towns (like Muskegon) on the west side of the state that are in poor shape, having neither the size nor the attraction to retain talent when manufacturing slid south of the border. Grand Rapids proper is a mini-Detroit in a lot of ways...with troubled public schools and relatively high crime and poverty. They are seeing some growth, but not without persistent problems. I don't want to sound like I'm down on these towns, just firing back at some of the pro-west side anti-Detroit propaganda I hear from some friends I have over there.

As a whole, I think Detroit is by far the most important factor in Michigan's future. Grand Rapids & western Michigan will certainly remain important, but have neither the population or national significance.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 778
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would say in order for Michigan to thrive we need to start by replacing the entire state legislature with people that will solve problems rather than devoting all their energy to holding on to their phony-baloney jobs.

The state is drifting toward a shutdown and these dimwits can't even get a budget deal, because they're all afraid of what we might say if they succeed, and don't seem to give a damn as to what will happen if they fail. Add that to the fact that our full-time legislature has not done a single positive thing for Michigan in recent memory.

To paraphrase Buckley, I would rather be governed by a couple hundred names drawn at random from the phone book than by who's doing the so-called governing now. They all ought to be ashamed of themselves, but they aren't. And I believe they get a lifetime pension in exchange for this glaring mismanagement.
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Jeduncan
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Username: Jeduncan

Post Number: 141
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I personally don't want a state shut down. I can barely afford tuition as it is. If they need to raise revenue to keep tuition from raising, then so be it.

If tuition goes up as a result of continuing funding cuts, I'm not alone in saying bye-bye Michigan, hello cheaper schools elsewhere. More population hemorrhaging.

Wayne State is at the funding level they were at in 1995, and they've had to cut numerous programs because of it. Their Geography and Urban Studies programs have been chopped down more and more in the past few years. This is unfortunate considering the fact that 10 years ago they had one of the best in the region.

I know someone's gonna come chop me down for saying it, but if it's a tax hike they want, then I'm not gonna fight it. Bring it on.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 3693
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit's rate of change is positive and increasing. Michigan's is negative and increasing [increasingly negative].

You don't need to know calculus to understand those two statements.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 6558
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Our state government needs a wake up call, perhaps a shutdown wouldn't be so bad."

YES, By get rid of the Republicans in the Michigan Legislature by next year's election and replace them with a democratic Michigan Legislature.

KING KWAME will side with Granholm's Army and declare a political war against the Republicans by keeping the caSINos open.

This is what he says:





" My fellow Detroiters and my Black brothers and sisters. October will be and clashing event. I have petitioned the city council and met with Gen. Granholm and decided to join her army to declare a political war against the Republican Michigan Legislature. They have gone to far of not voting on the increase property tax proposal and would save state from this 9.1 million budget shortfall and a government shutdown is imminent. If a government shutdown happens, most local govt'services from state police to the casinos will close. The three casinos in Detroit are part of my liability and revenue profitability and I will not let that happen. So as the support of this political war, I will keep all 3 casinos open, even through I might face certain war crimes. If they want to come to my great city and shut the casinos down, they will have to kill me first. So my fellow Detroiters, times in Michigan are getting tough, people are losing their jobs, many have became homeless and real estate foreclosures soared. We need to work together not only to save our city but our state from these republican terrorists. I will ask you all to join with me and Gen Granholm to fight this political war before its too late. We will go out into battlefield and smoke the republican terrorists out of their homes. We will fight until victory is ours and for the sake of fatherland Michigan and our Great City of Detroit you all have to make a choice, either you are with us or are with the republican terrorists. Thank-you and the Let God save us all. HEIL GRANHOLM!"

(Message edited by DANNY on September 21, 2007)
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 2671
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny, you crack me up. I can't ever quite figure out what you are trying to say, but it is still funny.

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