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Archive through September 13, 2007Hpgrmln30 09-13-07  10:37 pm
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Rustic
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Username: Rustic

Post Number: 3165
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terryh, assuming you are talking about the olden tymes you have to recognize three distinct eras in populated White Detroit: pre to Early Auto Boom (1890's-1920s), Late Auto boom (20's-40's) and post Auto boom (~ 50's-70's). In all three eras Detroit had its lawless gangster element, organized crime, moments of jaw dropping hyper-violence, everyday criminals and hustlers, crooked politicians, cowed populace etc., etc,

Broadly, criminality in Detroit IMO appeared to be in response to changing demographics (still does) but in reality it merely represented a steady state that you might expect in a bordertown with lots of $$$ to be made and a hands off attitude to most things.

The pre to early auto boom era was dominated by "nativist" scots-irish (and german) protestant gangsters in response to the increased political power of second generation irish and german catholics bolstered by increasing numbers of immigrant catholics from Europe and the Mediterranean. Lots of heavy Klan and Klan-like activity fighting it out over control of housing and (pre unionized) shop floors and the jobs that went with them (picture Black Legion-like orgs).

Late Auto boom saw the rise of first generation immigrant ethnic gangs (Jews, "Syrians", Italians) and what was by then third generation "Irish" and "German" Catholics tho by then in Detroit intermarriage had watered down that distinction a bit.

Post Autoboom White Detroit saw a huge flux of white detroiters leave for the suburbs and in the first couple of decades were replaced not only by blacks from the south but also by large numbers of Appalachain whites (and smaller but influential numbers of Mediterranean white immigrants). This was the era that saw the rise of Hillbilly bikers, hard as rocks Balkan tough guys, slick Syrian, Chaldean and Greek wiseguys.

So depending on your era the tough white neighborhoods varied in location and ethnicity.

For me, I personally know the peak and trough of white flight west side Detroit. Early on the toughest white neighborhoods I recall were the "Hillbilly" parts of the Cass corridor, St Annes, springwells, Mi/Lonyo and GR/McGraw. At the time Brightmoor was certianly rough and tumble but no where near these other areas. Later on Brightmoor took a turn for the worse and even once tidy and genteel lower middle and working class areas of Redford and parts of warrendale begin to resemble Mi/Lonyo or Springwells or even Redford township! yikes!

For my parents era, growing up immediately prewar, the toughest neighborhoods were completely different ones than the ones I mentioned. OF course there werre the famous gangster and ethnic ones mentioned by others ... but don't forget that before ambitious postwar urban renewal the riverfront itself contained a hodge podge of stuff including speakeasies, whorehouses, hophouses, gaming rooms etc ... real hardcore BAMF stuff that you would expect along the waterfront in an industrial bordertown that worked three shifts 6 days on and shrugged its shoulders at most stuff ...

Yay Detroit!
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 125
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow, now I know where NOT to move, though good info for drug dealers.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 1741
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 13, 2007 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

very succinct Rustic, nicely explained to the people.

All city politicians were and are crooked and dirty, the Irish, Italian and Wasps just cover it up better and put on a more dignified front.
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Eastside_man
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Username: Eastside_man

Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone in the Gratiot 7mile area would tell you the boys that hung around Tony's {East Side Economy]and Amy Joy both an Gratiot were the toughest boys of all.
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Tponetom
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Username: Tponetom

Post Number: 143
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1943 riots? At the age of 14, my gang and I were educated by the older guys on our block. Their cardinal admonition was simple. "Don't go looking for trouble unless your prepared to handle it. Learn to read people and their neighborhoods."
With that advice we roamed the entire east side at will.
Dbc's post, spoke voulumes."Knowing how to get into neighborhoods, but most important is knowing how to get out of them, quickly."
The "wheel" that is Detroit, takes awhile to figure out.
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Pacman712
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Username: Pacman712

Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What were some of the names of 1940's through 1960's gangs on the East Side of Detroit? There were suppose to be some tough appalachia people living over off of Conner by the Parkside Projects - or Bedrock as they called on the streets. I would like to add East Side gangs to my http://www.stonegreasers.com/g reaser/detroit.html Stone Greasers.

Thank you in advance!
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Silverbeauty
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Username: Silverbeauty

Post Number: 36
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>>>There is nothing rough about Livonia. Sorry.<<<

I wouldn't go that far. Crime may be low, but there are a lot of drugs in the high schools. Hard drugs.
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Fordaspiregv
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Username: Fordaspiregv

Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And you base this on what? There are drugs in all the schools. When I went to Plymouth-Canton High 12 years ago there were there. So what?
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Silverbeauty
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Username: Silverbeauty

Post Number: 37
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 9:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^
Somebody alluded to the fact that Livonia had nothing wrong with it.

There are lots hard drugs in the high schools. Fact. But it is off topic.
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Silverbeauty
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Username: Silverbeauty

Post Number: 38
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>>>And you base this on what?<<<

four deaths from one high school in Livonia from 4/06-8/06

two overdoses, and two suicides(drug related)

It wasn't talked about in the media
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Citylover
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Username: Citylover

Post Number: 2644
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This idiotic thread gets 38 posts? What a waste of time completely and categorically stupid and meaningless
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Fareastsider
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Username: Fareastsider

Post Number: 615
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have been to every corner in the city and none scarred me more than Olivet St in Southwest Detroit. All white and totally crazy and mad. I never knew a white person in Detroit would have swastikas and KKK tattoos but one guy did! There were wierd groans and moans coming from a house behind a house on that street followed by wierd yelling and that was just the begining......
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Reddog289
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Username: Reddog289

Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 4:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

springwells & layfayette was pretty tough and white in the mid 90,s. never had no problem
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Reddog289
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Username: Reddog289

Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 4:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

oh yeah speaking of YBI,. WHITE BOY RICK. hadaguy i used to work with called him that. got family up north, they think any thing around detroit is detroit. anyone north of saginaw gets scared if a black man is around.
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Gtat44
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Username: Gtat44

Post Number: 161
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Y.B.I. wasn't that the Chamber's brothers?
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Bw7085
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Username: Bw7085

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What ever happen to white boy Rick? Is he still in prison and what neighborhood did he grow up in?
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Pgn421
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Username: Pgn421

Post Number: 147
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

gtat44- yes , that was the Chambers bros operation. one of them bought a friends of mine house. paid cash. from a brown paper bag!
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Oldoak
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Username: Oldoak

Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terryh – that white guy at the bar at Kovacs was the owner. I brought some people there in early spring and one of my guests, from Berlin, got into a long discussion with him. He is a mean drunk and he and his wife run the place and they DO NOT live in Detroit, but downriver. They got the bar cheap and now they resent their own customers. My distinguished friend had to be hustled out of there – too bad as his wife was chatty and nice. I bet if someone wanted that bar they could get it pretty cheap.
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Maryh
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Username: Maryh

Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastside Man:
My boyfriend, whose initials are C.W. thinks he must know you. He talks about all his adventures at Eastside Economy-late 50's early/ mid sixties.

Tony's motto "The small man must eat also"
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Tiberius
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Username: Tiberius

Post Number: 41
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YBI's Dexter and Richton NE corner. Buildings gone now though.
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Sbll
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Username: Sbll

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any one know anything about the Purple Gang, the Myrtle Street gang or the Butternut street gang?
That was my part of town.
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Tponetom
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Username: Tponetom

Post Number: 149
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sbll. The Purple Gang was definitely 'not' a neighborhood gang. They were big time in Detroit and second only to Lucky and Frank and Bananas, and others of their ilk. Their expertise was rum running from Canada to Detroit. Grosse Pointe Park was their habitat.

note: Bananas died here in Tucson a few years ago.
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 887
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Swiped from "Ask Yahoo":

DETROIT -- An imprisoned Detroit drug dealer was an active participant in a group that stole $8 million worth of vehicles in south Florida while he was behind bars, Florida authorities said Thursday.

Richard Wershe Jr., who as a teenage drug dealer during the 1980s in Detroit was widely known as White Boy Rick, was charged by state authorities in Florida with being part of a network that stole hundreds of vehicles.

He is serving a life term following his arrest and conviction on drug trafficking charges in 1988 at age 17.

Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist said the arrests of six people -- including Wershe -- capped a probe called "Operation Road Runner."

Three Miami men were charged, along with a Virginia man and another man held in a federal prison, Lorenzo Nichols Jr., with stealing more than 250 vehicles and then selling them with altered vehicle identification numbers.

About 120 of the vehicles, worth $3.5 million, have been recovered.

Wershe and Nichols are accused of using attorney-client telephone lines within the federal prisons, which by law cannot be monitored by prison authorities without a federal court order.

They used the phones "as a point of transfer for three-way calls to further their criminal enterprise," Crist said in a statement.

Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy praised the arrests.

"This case shows the collaborative efforts between law enforcement can produce impressive results," Worthy said in a statement. "We must be vigilant in attacking crime that occurs inside and outside of prison walls."

County prosecutors fought to keep Wershe in the federal prison, where he is being held, during a 2003 at a parole hearing.

In 1991, he was moved to a federal prison in Marquette after he began cooperating with federal agents.

Wershe also was the key to one of the FBI's most significant local police drug corruption cases in which nearly a dozen police officers, including three on then-Detroit Police Chief William Hart's staff, were convicted in 1992, agents told The Detroit News in 2003.

Wershe's cooperation continued in prison. He was instrumental in preventing a homicide in a murder-for-hire plot, and in 1995 provided information about another plot by one organized crime group planning the murder of another nationally known crime figure, agents said.

In 2003 parole hearing, his friend, musician Kid Rock, an FBI agent and two retired FBI agents asked the state parole board to release Wershe.

The FBI agents cited Wershe's extensive help in prosecuting some of Detroit's most vicious drug gangs and a Detroit police corruption case.

It was opposed by Detroit police and federal Drug Enforcement Administration agents who blamed Wershe for some of the city's problems with crime today.

Wershe was 17 when he was arrested in 1988 for possession with intent to deliver about 1.5 pounds of cocaine. He was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

A change in the state's drug-sentencing law in late 2004 left Wershe, now 35, eligible for parole. The parole board unanimously rejected the request. He can reapply in 2007.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 5552
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba's Westsdie of the 1940-50s was as peaceful as Grosse Pointe. Never any hassles.

jjaba, Proudly Westside.
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Dds
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Username: Dds

Post Number: 367
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Y.B.I. wasn't that the Chamber's brothers?



Gtat44: Regardless of what Pgn421 has said, the Chambers Brothers were not YBI. YBI was organized by Butch Jones.
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Eastside61
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Username: Eastside61

Post Number: 310
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 1:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the mid to late 50's there was one totally TOUGH street over on the eastside.....The Celestine Boys who live on Fordham ruled the 7 / Gratiot neighborhood and Heilmann Park....
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Caldogven
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Username: Caldogven

Post Number: 123
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 2:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about the Mack - Gratiot gang, the Cooper gang, the Mack - Mc Clelland gang, the Mack - Alter gang!
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Gazhekwe
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Username: Gazhekwe

Post Number: 733
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 8:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Purple Gang even operated in the UP, they would run booze from Canada across to the Brimley area in rowboats. There is family legend about people meeting (maybe even getting paid for helping) the Purple Gang.
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Eastside_man
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Username: Eastside_man

Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MAYRA
Tony' motto the small man must eat also. this was true, His second motto was you break you pay. C.W. does not ring a bell what street did he live on. I lived on Liberal near Gratiot.
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 1000
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

novara here eastside
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 1001
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

novara here eastside
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Eastside_man
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Username: Eastside_man

Post Number: 13
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastside61
never heard of the Celestine boys. My time was late 50's and 60's. And i say it again the gang that hung around Tony's and Amy Joy's doughnuts were the toughest around. Ask Ed Beste,
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Caldogven
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Username: Caldogven

Post Number: 125
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastside_man
Do you know Ed Beste? Is he still alive. I remember him well from Motor City Speedway and Beste's Frame and Axle. He used to do some of the frame work for Funston Chevrolet and Wood Motors when I worked there.
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Eastside_man
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Username: Eastside_man

Post Number: 15
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Caldogven
Ed Besty is still alive i am glad to say spoke to his last week.Roger Yates passed on some time back.Did you ever attend R0ogers nightly meetings in the office.Some were epic..........
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Islandman
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Username: Islandman

Post Number: 980
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

White Boy Rick was on the news a few years ago. He said he was rehabilitated and should get parole. He also said the majority of drugs came in, and are still coming in, via City Airport.
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Caldogven
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Username: Caldogven

Post Number: 126
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastside- man
No I was never at Rogers meetings. I remember when he won the championship in '54, I think he won a new gold Ford convertible.
Next time you talk to Edgar ask him if he remembers Chris who used to work for Rene at Funston, and Tony Pro at Woods.
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The_ed
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Username: The_ed

Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Gazhekwe:
My grandmother had a restaurant where the Purple Gang used to come to late at night and early in the morning. She always talked about how nice the "guys" were and how well they tipped.
She owned a place called SUG'S GRILL. She was always called 'Sug' because she was half sweet and half something else. Probably bourbon.
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Maryh
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Username: Maryh

Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastside man:

My"boy"friend's name is Cliff. He grew up on Regent west of Gratiot. I have heard many stories about Tony's. Cliff says another Tony's saying was: "Home of the Jawbreaker"
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Detx
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Username: Detx

Post Number: 26
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Southwest Detroit definitely has a lot of tough old school white families that still live there. They’ve lived there forever and they’re not giving up on their neighborhood or Detroit for nothing. And a lot of them are very active in community and church groups as well. In general, I don’t think most Detroiters or posters on this forum realize how many white people actually live in Southwest Detroit.
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Eastside_man
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Username: Eastside_man

Post Number: 19
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2007 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember Cliff had a red Fury.Had a friend with a fro. became a cop don't remember his name.Does he still talk to Rick Ricardo.
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Maryh
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Username: Maryh

Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, October 12, 2007 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cliff says the other fellow's name was Cliff Stosh? My Cliff says he had a '65 red Plymouth Belvedere. Ricardo died about 10 years ago - heart attack? Cliff wonders if you knew Mike Barnes.
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Eastside_man
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Username: Eastside_man

Post Number: 21
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think so did he live on Anvil.Had a big nose we would say if we had one of those full of quaters we'd be rich......Does Cliff have any contact info.on Tony's boys Mark and Tony JR. Sad to hear about Ricardo he was a fixture at Tony's for many years like a cigar store indian. Befor he stared hanging out at Besty's. Tell Cliff i said hi.
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 186
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How weird to note that the neighborhoods were safer when the older gangs ran things. I ran around the all over the east side with my friends as a teen in the 70s and never got bothered once. I did get mugged in 1973, but that was by some junkie at Federal's parking lot in Roseville.

Gangs now don't seem to care about who they hurt. Oddly, the old schoolers had "standards".

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