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93typhoon
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Username: 93typhoon

Post Number: 33
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone have any information on the Lawyers building on Cadillac Sq? I have always liked this building and a couple years ago it a project appeared to be underway. Is the building for sale?
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1240
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lst i heard, a group of investors purchased the building about 2 years ago. for some reason they decided not to renovate it (lack of funding, i believe) and put it back on the market. last year it was listed in the $1.8-$2.1 million range. i've talked with several investors who were interested in it, but haven't heard anything on movement of purchasing and/or proposals. last i knew chris monsour was the listing agent.
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1241
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

here's the listing: http://signatureassociates.cat ylist.com/jsp/listings/listing _details.jsp?listingID=1345233 it's listed for $1.7 million and is current from tuesday.

(Message edited by rsa on August 24, 2007)
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93typhoon
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Username: 93typhoon

Post Number: 34
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thats great information - thanks - now I just need to round up another $1,600,000 and I would be all set... This size building would appear perfect for renovation to lofts - not too huge.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2734
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately it suffers from the one thing that always kills residential projects in Detroit. I'll leave it to you to figure out what that big deficiency would be.

Also the purchase price is one thing. You'll need at least another $5-6 million in renovations in order to make it inhabitable. That building needs to be gutted and rebuilt.
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93typhoon
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Username: 93typhoon

Post Number: 35
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I assume you mean parking - at least in a project this size i would not have to find 100's spaces.

I have always thought a buyer should have the option to buy open space - let the buyer choose the layout/materials etc. - at the buyers own cost. Each buyer could do as little or as much as they choose. I don't know if that option is available or financially viable for a building owner.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1500
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the center city, you should be able to get away with one parking space per unit. Way less than 100.
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1242
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the CBD is exempt from any type of parking requirements. i believe what ndavies is talking about is more geared toward financing options. most banks will require dedicated parking before they approve loans on a development such as this.

93; that is a viable option, but it would be extremely difficult to obtain financing for. banks will require some kind of forecasted income and guarantee on purchase rate. it is unlikely that they would provide financing for such an open ended outcome.

to overcome this, you would probably have to presell all of the units at a whitebox status and/or custom design units at that time. or, you could set up a corporation with each floor being a member in the corporation and obtain financing together. when the whitebox phase is complete, then you can dissolve the corporation and have each owner fit out their independant space. [something along this line is how the folks at the vinton building did it. i may have some of the details wrong, but that's the basic idea.]
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Kenp
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Username: Kenp

Post Number: 745
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/b u/?id=lawyersbuilding-detroit- mi-usa
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2735
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, I was talking about parking. You would need a minimum of 10 spaces if you're at 1 space per floor. The building comes with no land outside of it's footprint. Where are you going to put those 10 cars? At the Vinton we put the cars in the basement. That only worked because the Vinton basement is larger than the building. It extends out under the sidewalk. Oh, and thats an additional $350,000 to get them down there and provide the upgraded safety systems that allow a car to be driven inside a building.

You're looking at at least $3 million to do environmental remediation and bring the buildings elevators, electrical and plumbing infrastructure up to snuff.

An elevator rebuild alone will cost you $250,000. Sprinkler system is another $250,000. New roof $100,000. $75,000 to have the exterior brickwork inspected and repaired. $300,00 to have the windows either replaced or restored to a reasonable level of performance. Pressurization of the stairwells to meet new 911 inspired fire codes is $45,000.

And lets not forget the fun costs of Architects, lawyers, and Permits.


quote:

I have always thought a buyer should have the option to buy open space - let the buyer choose the layout/materials etc. - at the buyers own cost. Each buyer could do as little or as much as they choose. I don't know if that option is available or financially viable for a building owner.


This is the way all condo projects work. Unfortunately the finish of a space is just a mere drop in the bucket compared to getting the building ready to accept the tenants finishes.

Trust me you are looking at $350,000 per floor to get that building back into service. That doesn't include the original purchase price of the building. Only about $50K of the floors renovation cost will depend on the tenants layout and finish choices.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1931
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 7:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember when the Lawyers Building had occupants which included lawyers! ( once suicide that I clearly remember). I had depositions there.
Sammy the Barber in the Dime Building got his start in the Lawyers Building over 50 years ago when he came back from a fox hole in Korea.
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Southen
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Username: Southen

Post Number: 260
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the lot between the Lawyers building and Cadillac Square Apartments would be perfect for a project like The Griswold. Build parking to accomodate the Lawyers Building and others in the area and build some more residential on top.
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Atperry
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Username: Atperry

Post Number: 268
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On a side note, when is the Vinton expected to be complete? Construction appeared to have slowed the last time I saw it. Is the wine bar still planned?
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1511
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ndavies wouldn't it help to solve the problem (at least the issue of cost to renovate the building) if there were two 1,500 SF units per floor rather than one 3,000 sf unit? Then the cost could be more distributed among more parties. I guess what sucks is that even if you could argue to the city that you wanted to put parking on the ground level (as opposed to retail) you prob. couldn't get much more than 10 spaces in. A forty foot wide space isn't hardly enough for one row of 90 degree parking! Is there not a 'vacant lot' to the side of the building?

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