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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 1196
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

we just don't know what

WE? Your schizophrenic personalities are coming out again Gistok, may I suggest some typical antipsychotic medications--such as olanzapine (Zyprexa), quetiapine (Seroquel), risperidone (Risperdal), or aripiprazole (Abilify) that you can use to help you through the rough times?
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1383
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Admittedly, I just skimmed the article when I saw it earlier... but I thought CW was tapping into credit and not cash? Meaning they aren't very liquid?
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5127
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your Ad Hominem Kool-Aid comments are getting stale...
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Sirrealone
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Username: Sirrealone

Post Number: 26
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The problem now is not that loans will default. I think that's been brought to market in the past few weeks, and that ought not surprise anyone.

But, one of the things I read, that's now causing so much uproar, is that they're going to curb most non-conforming loans. This means that they're going to pretty much eliminate zero-down or ARM loans. Since most of their 'growth' came from these extra loans over the past few years, revenues are going to go way back. This could signal a slowdown in the economy.

In other words, people that wouldn't have been able to afford a new house 10 years ago but were 'brought into' the credit market, will now be shut out again. I can't really say that's a bad thing. It seems a lot of people that accepted these subprime deals got in way over their head, and are now in foreclosure.
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Kid_dynamite
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Username: Kid_dynamite

Post Number: 187
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sirrealone. There are many Fanny mae/freddie mac backed loans that are 100% financing (flex loans) and ARMs. ARMS and 100% financing are not going anywhere, only the non-agency variety of them. And that is probably only a short term thing. The non-agency loans will come back in the next few months when the wall street investors calm down.
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Sirrealone
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Username: Sirrealone

Post Number: 27
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Understood. I didn't mean to say that all non-traditional loans are going away. But there will be a squeeze which will make it tougher, for sure. And, this could carry over to other credit markets as well, such as personal credit (credit cards), and this credit squeeze could lead into a slowdown (i.e. recession) for the entire economy.
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Pjazz
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Username: Pjazz

Post Number: 76
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Drankin if you have good credit this would be a great time to buy a house, because you could pretty much name your price on a house.
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 1199
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok wrote the following before it mysteriously disappeared:
quote:

Quozl, rather than go Ad Hominem, may I suggest that this is a FORUM for ideas and inquiries, some far fetched, others down to earth. Rather than insult people, either listen and respect others dreams, thoughts and ideas, or don't post here.

It's like we're slavish Jim Jones's lemmings drinking poisonous Kool-Aid, as you incessantly and belittlingly remind us.

Your Kool-Aid comments are getting stale...

Gistok:

I am well aware that this is a FORUM for ideas and inquiries. I do READ other DYES members dreams, thoughts and ideas, and indeed respect opinions that differ from my own.

I disagree with your statement that "we're slavish Jim Jones's lemmings drinking poisonous Kool-Aid, as you incessantly and belittlingly (sic) remind us." as I MYSELF drank the QL Kool-aid too, all the while participating in a thread that grew to over 895 posts.

Likewise, I try very hard to avoid argumentum ad hominem. I am well aware that personal attacks on your opponent are an admission of intellectual bankruptcy. I also try to keep attention on the majority of my posts centered on the objective problem itself. You do not see me call others in the debate of a subject: Libs, NeoCons, baby killer, socialist, pejorative names for races, sexual preference, ethnic groups, or religions, etc., like many other participants.

Thanks for letting me honestly know how you feel about my contribution to DYES Gistok, I appreciate it.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5128
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alright, alright... lets keep this on topic and not personal... BTW... are those drugs available over the counter? :-)
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 1200
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No way Amigo, you need a script.

Do me a favor, email me, okay?
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2617
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aside from the tightening credit market, jobs are being lost at the lenders who are struggling or going under. GM's and Cerberus's mortgage divisions have been getting clobbered, too. (GM holds 49% of GMAC LLC, Cerberus holds the rest)
quote:

from bloomberg.com
Residential Capital LLC is the largest private U.S. home lender, according to the newsletter's data. ResCap is part of GMAC LLC, the former finance unit of General Motors Corp., now majority owned by a group led by Cerberus Capital Management LP. Cerberus owned a majority stake in Aegis Mortgage Corp., which declared bankruptcy Aug. 13.

Moody's cut ResCap to junk status today
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 888
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup: Boy, I sure am glad you explained that to me. Actually, I don't mean to be confrontational, but you do not appear to have the slightest idea what you're reading.

The information that I posted to start the thread got to me through a news alert service at 7:41 A.M. today. It does not differ in any way from the subsequent Bloomberg story, which did not contradict anything I said or the original news alert stated. And, I'm on Bloomberg at least 10 times a day covering my commodities business so I don't think I need to "upgrade my reading material."

If you want a better understanding of the topic under discussion, you should read the story about CW in today's WSJ. Very informative. Or the major story yesterday in the WSJ which explained the role of the rating services (Moody's, S & P et al) in the debacle.

It appears that Merrill Lynch, one of CW's investment bankers, issued a "buy" recommendation on CW 2 or 3 days ago, and then yesterday, reversed itself and advised selling the stock. CW's stock is in the process of cratering and is down over $2.50/ share as of 30 minutes ago. It's lost 1/2 its value recently and yesterday its bond were down 5%.

The M-L analyst raised the prospect of bankruptcy for the company, a prediction not shared by the rest of Wall Street apparently at this time.

The WSJ contributes a lot of insight into CW's financial condition. It clearly has big problems as does everybody else in the business. However, Countrywide Bank, its wholly owned sub, has assets of $90 billion (substantially more than Comerica) although the bank holds $27+ billion of pay-option loans, the riskiest possible kind. Those are presumable loans it couldn't sell in the secondary markets because of their non-conformity to conventional lending standards. It also appears that CW is planning to throw the rest of its mtg lending business into the bank. (It will be interesting to see what the Office of Thrift Supervision says about that; it regulates federal savings banks such as CW Bank.)

CW claims it is going to start making conventional loans (more of them) and sell them to Fanny and Freddie. The problem there is that FM went to Congress a week or so ago to get an additional $90 billion (as I recall) lending authority and was turned down.

As of 6/30 CW had $1.15 billion in cash and $34 billions of loans held "for sale to investors."
I presume that those loans don't qualify for sale into the secondary mkt, and there's no way they can be securitized, so I presume CW is stuck w/ them; many are in default - 5.7% - and in all liklihood many more will be. The result will be that those loans aren't going to be worth the amounts currently on the books and its balance sheet will be hammered.

On the bright side, CW services $1.4 TRILLION of home loans, 14% of the outstanding loans in the country. That is a huge source of monthly revenue which is probably still very solid and the servicing can be sold for a substantially large sum if necessary.

CW claims, per the WSJ story, to have $50 billion of "highly reliable short-term funding available" which I don't think anyone believes.

Still, CW is probably in far better shape than most mtg lenders.

If anyone knows how to post the WSJ storey it would be interesting reading, not only for Lilpup but for all of us.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5129
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, if I knew your EMAIL... mine is: istokg AT earthlink.net (don't worry about spamblocker).
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 1201
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aye Aye Captain.
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Kid_dynamite
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Username: Kid_dynamite

Post Number: 188
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3rdworldcity...I'll do my best to answer some of your questions from post 886. I have been here for a few years, and I have a good deal of knowledge of the secondary market side of the business, but I am no means an expert on it. I base my knowledge on conversations with people higher up than me, and from our capital markets group. Unlike some of the people in this forum, I am not claiming to be a know-it-all on this subject.

I don't know about all of the financial positions of all of the other investors.. it would be uninformed for me to answer that. There are lots of banks that arent having nearly as tough of a time as Countrywide is selling their loans off in big chunks on wall street. Countrywide has a larger portion of their portfolio in subprime and ALT-A loans than some other big lenders. Some are a LOT worse off them them, though.

QL rarely sells directly to Fanny Mae, but that does not mean never. We are definitely still originating loans. There is just not as many different types of loans to pick from as of right now. Everything in the pipeline right now is probably not in danger of not being funded. There were some loans (10% of the active pipeline maybe?) that were killed out in the past few weeks that had no buyers waiting for them, so they were denied, and costs refunded to the clients.

"Because QL is privately held there's no way to know what its financial position is, and I guess it's none of our business. However, your statement that QL "is in a pretty good liquidity position now" seems to fly in the face of reality. It's hard to believe that if CW has to wipe out its credit line QL can be doing much better"

I would'nt make this comparison. Different portfolios, different situations. We are doing all agency loans right now. There will be investors paying for what they are worth.

What we are seeing right now in the market is an example of the herd mentality of wall street. It is about the mortgage backed securities. It starts with one investor saying "hey, mortgages suck, and you will lose your ass off on them!" They pull out of investing in them, and it sets off a chain reaction with other investors. Everybody blindly jumps ship. Of course it doesnt happen exactly like this, but you get the idea.

There are going to be a less competition in the coming months. The lenders with severe liquidity issues are going to fold. Watch for several others to go under.

When the dust settles, the companies that emerge will be stronger than before. Less competition. The investors will come back to 2nd mortgage, Jumbo, ALT-A paper that has such a weak market right now.

There will be some cuts at QL. But, trust me on this; it's cutting dead weight. The market's more challenging, so the non-performers not earning their worth are going to go. That would have happened soon enough, even if this situation in the market didnt exist. The only difference is we are not going to immediatly replace them.

As far as you questions about Dan Gilbert and his PR regarding a move downtown, I am not going to speak for him on why or why not he doing this or that. He is a pretty smart dude, and I am sure he knows what he is doing.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2618
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Actually, I don't mean to be confrontational, but you do not appear to have the slightest idea what you're reading


Actually, I do.

quote:

It appears that Merrill Lynch, one of CW's investment bankers, issued a "buy" recommendation on CW 2 or 3 days ago, and then yesterday, reversed itself and advised selling the stock

Merrill Lynch had CW as a "buy" for over two years before yesterday's "sell."
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Jz_detroit
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Username: Jz_detroit

Post Number: 29
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quicken is fine and they are not going anywhere and they will have a new HQ soon. The market will not stop them. The HQ can be in Detroit. It could be in Livonia. It could be anymore in Southeast Michigan.

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20070816/COL06/7 0816033
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 889
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup: Actually (and obviously) you don't.

Per the WSJ story today:

"The "sell" call from Merrill analyst Kenneth Bruce came just TWO DAYS after he published a note rating CW a "buy."

Most people who read the article presumably didn't have that much difficulty comprehending the message.

The whole point is that M-L switched positions in such a short time and it's that factor that drew all the attention to the rating. Sure, M-L has consistently predicted "share-price gains over the past two years" and it's been correct. It was after all an investment banker for the company. That's not to say M-L had a "buy" (as you claim), "sell", or "hold" on the stock during that time. That's not the issue, anyway, which you do not appear able to grasp. It was the timing of the "buy" and "sell" that caused the concern.

Thanks Kid-dynomite, for your input. You've got to understand that there will always be rumors floating around about QL, primarily because it discloses no meaningful information to the public. Frankly, I have a couple of contacts at QL and while both are pretty discrete, I've gotten conflicting answers now and then. I also have several mortgage banker friends with whom I have frequent contact. One is a Director of a bank making which makes nothing but real estate loans, almost all commercial. The current mess is obviouly a hot topic. I used to represent banks and one major residential lender (the largest fha/va lender in the business at the time), and I find the whole saga very interesting. As must you.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 891
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm surprised no one has posted today's Det News and Freep stories about Quicken, with some interesting quotes from Gilbert. I'd do it if I knew how.

Kid_dynomite: you must have shown him this thread and told him to get his ass in gear. Thanks.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3757
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3WC: Try these formatting rules.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1876
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There 3WC. I went ahead and was "that guy".
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Quozl
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Username: Quozl

Post Number: 1218
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Quicken/Rock sees silver lining in market's woes Company shifts to low-risk lending

August 17, 2007

BY TOM WALSH

FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

The national panic over risky mortgage loans and rising home foreclosures could be a blessing for Livonia-based Quicken Loans and Rock Financial, founder and chairman Dan Gilbert said in an interview Thursday.

Quicken has made moves in recent weeks to cut costs, slow hiring and shift all its retail mortgage lending to "plain-vanilla," low-risk loans, Gilbert said. But it has not laid off workers and expects to grow mortgage loan volume this year by about 10% to more than $20 billion.

Gilbert also said Quicken/Rock's much-anticipated decision about a new headquarters location -- speculation is centered on downtown Detroit -- will not be derailed or delayed by the national mortgage-market woes.

"We think this is a blessing in disguise for the company because we think that there's so much carnage out there -- less competitors, less people buying marketing and advertising on the Internet where we play. Although it's painful for the whole industry and everybody going through it, we think it's one of those things that's going to be beneficial to us in the long run," Gilbert told me.

"We're still talking" about options for headquarters, he said Thursday, but no final decision has been made and none is imminent. Other people close to the discussions said Quicken/Rock's search is focused primarily on downtown Detroit, but is tied in part to what could happen with other potential big Detroit projects, such as a new arena for the Detroit Red Wings.

Gilbert, a high-octane entrepreneur who also owns the Cleveland Cavaliers professional basketball team, talked about the implications of the nation's mortgage frenzy in a lengthy voice mail sent Tuesday to Quicken and Rock employees. Quicken conducts mortgage business nationwide via the Internet; Rock Financial is its traditional lending arm in Michigan, where it has brick-and-mortar offices.

He said in the voice mail that Quicken wasn't hurt in March when a furor over subprime mortgage loans -- made at high rates to credit-risky borrowers -- erupted as loan default rates rose. Quicken didn't make subprime loans, Gilbert said.

But three or four weeks ago, he said in the voice mail that the wider financial markets were spooked by the subprime problems, and buyers dried up for some loans to even very creditworthy customers.

Quicken/Rock responded by shifting rapidly -- in a week's time -- to make 100% of its loans the plain-vanilla type for sums less than $417,000 that are purchased by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the congressionally chartered agencies that pool the loans for sale as mortgage-backed securities.

Prior to the national credit panic, about 30% of Quicken's loan portfolio was in jumbo loans more than $417,000 and other products, all of which, Gilbert said, were made to high-credit-score borrowers

Gilbert did concede that Quicken, which normally resells its loans quickly after making them, has had some challenges in that regard the past few weeks.

The firm currently has a backlog of about $100 million in unsold loans. "That sounds like a big number," he said, "but it's really not that significant to a company with a credit line of $2.5 billion." His plan is to whittle the backlog gradually, rather than trying to dump all the loans on the market at a loss.

However long the mortgage jitters roil the financial markets, which could be three weeks or a couple months, Quicken/Rock will tighten its belt a bit, which Gilbert said it has done before.

After that, Quicken/Rock plans to grab new chunks of market share from competitors that have failed or shrunk.

Quicken, Rock and an affiliated title-insurance business employ about 4,800 people, mostly in metro Detroit. The latest group of 350 hires joined the growing mortgage operations about two weeks ago, Gilbert said, but the company probably will hold off on more hiring for the next few months.

Gilbert's comments on the mortgage-market gyrations likely will be reassuring to key players in the effort to revive downtown Detroit.

Hopes had been rising until recently about a possible Quicken/Rock move to Detroit, helping to build on momentum from last year's Super Bowl and earlier moves by Compuware, EDS and OnStar downtown. But as time passed without a decision, fears that Gilbert's talks with the city had stalled mounted.

If he does move his mortgage empire to Detroit, look for Gilbert to bring along other small companies in which he is a major investor, such as wall graphics maker Fathead LLC and possibly ePrize LLC of Pleasant Ridge.

Contact TOM WALSH at 313-223-4430 or twalsh@freepress.com.

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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 892
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, LY, for the formatting link. It's still way beyond me.

Quozle: Thanks for posting the Free Press story. The one in the News today is better, I think, and had additional comments by Gilbert re: his proposed Detroit move.

Thejesus: What do you think I meant, when I referred to articles in TODAY'S papers? You and Lilpup should take a reading comprehension course.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1881
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I posted that article in the other Quicken thread 3WC.
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Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite

Post Number: 190
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quozl.. go choke on that Kool Aid.
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Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1086
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3rdworldcity, posting a link on this forum is not very hard:

1) highlight the URL (address) of the page you want to link to by left-clicking your cursor on the URL that is displayed in your browser's window
2) right-click on the now-highlighted URL and in the menu box that comes up, click on "Copy"
3) in the "Add Your Message Here" box at the bottom of the thread, right-click your cursor at the point you want the link to appear and then click on "Paste" (make sure both "Options" boxes are checked)


If you want to get fancy and embed the link in the text you write, you need to format a "newurl" statement. To do this, just type (and paste the copied URL) using the following format (but make it all in one line and without any spaces:
\
newurl{URL,text}

(Message edited by Mikeg on August 17, 2007)
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Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3759
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3WC:

To insert a URL: (Some formatting is included within quotes so as not to have the formatting rules confuse the editor...)
(1) Enter the formatting tag...
quote:

Type \newurl{


(2) Then select and copy the URL path from the browser.
(3) Paste the URL after the open brace and then add a comma. So far it should appear as:
quote:

\newurl{URL_here,


(4) Add whatever text into your link and add a close brace }.

That's all. In the editor, it should look like so:
quote:

\newurl{URL_here,text_here}



(Message edited by Livernoisyard on August 17, 2007)
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Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl

Post Number: 1220
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't Kid, I switched to Absinthe with a fine louche and caffeinated carbonated beverages. No more Kool-Aid for me kiddo, thanks for the kind wishes though.
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Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2619
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

You and Lilpup should take a reading comprehension course.


lol, coming from a loser that can't even post a link
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Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 2955
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now I'm curious. For me, \newurl{URL,text} gets interpreted the same whether or not it's within a quote. I use the backslash escape to prevent its interpretation.


E.g., this:

\\newurl\{https://www.atdetroit.net/cgi-bin/f oroum/discus.cgi?pg=formatting #special\,Special Characters\}

produces this:

\newurl{https://www.atdetroit.net/cgi-bin/f oroum/discus.cgi?pg=formatting #special,Special Characters}


This:

\newurl{https://www.atdetroit.net/cgi-bin/f oroum/discus.cgi?pg=formatting #special,Special Characters}

produces this:

Special Characters

The backslash escape feature is explained in that Special Characters link.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3760
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had found that I needed backslashes inside the quotes, too. But I was too lazy to change them afterwards. [No money was involved for my further editing it...]
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Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 2956
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh! Now I understand. Thanks.
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Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 979
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let me see if I understand the left's position in this mortgage thing:

The Left in 1995: "Wah wah! The evil banks redline and discriminate against the working poor. Make them liberalize their lending practices so that everyone can byy a home!"

** This happens and millions of Americans buy their first homes; then the lenders lose their shirts on foreclosures, effectively giving billions of dollars to the borrowers **

The Left in 2007: "Wah, wah... the evil banks lent money to the working poor... Why did they ever give those people a chance to buy homes. Those people should have been kept in public housing!"
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1901
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 6:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray... I suspect greed and irresponsibilty led to giving loans to people who shouldn't have had them. I recently heard that half of the people forclosing on their homes this year lied about their income, saying they made 60%+ more than they actually do. Now, I recently purchased a house, and got my mortgage through a bank (much to the joy of my ever responsible grandmother). I had to supply proof of every dollar I made, every dollar I had, and any help given to me by my family. (Yeah, I'm spoiled, I got a little help on the closing costs). Obviously a lot of these lenders were looking for the quick buck, and not willing to invest the time in looking into to any of this, or they wouldn't be in the situation they are in.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 2621
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Along with those who lied about their incomes there are those who had appraisers who would gladly value to properties high so that the borrower got some cash out of the deal, too. The higher payments remain long after the borrower burns through the cash.
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Jimaz
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Post Number: 2959
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Run on L. A. Countrywide Bank
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 273
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jimaz, this reminds me of the folks who post on here occasionally saying its just a Detroit problem and we should all leave.
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Jimaz
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Post Number: 2961
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Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, well, a "run on a bank" may be too inflammatory but it was germane to the thread.

Just trying to contribute.
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Sstashmoo
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Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't say that very well..

A run on an LA bank is a bit of an eye opener for folks in other areas, that it's not just a Detroit problem. The economy is not well all over the US. Detroit is not the only place where the numbers are funky. Atlanta doesn't seem to be fairing too well either according to the home stock.

Sorry if you misunderstood.
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Jimaz
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Post Number: 2964
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Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sstashmoo, understood and agreed.

I'm just trying to be careful not to exacerbate the problem.

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