Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » Metro Detroit could lose VW American HQ « Previous Next »
Archive through August 14, 2007Johnlodge30 08-14-07  12:45 pm
  ClosedNew threads cannot be started on this page. The threads above are previous posts made to this thread.        

Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3737
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The article that had the following paraphrase
quote:

basically says that you can't just build 100 years of auto experience. detroit is unique in the world in this way.

was essentially a puff piece penned by an Oakland Press staff writer. It's about as valid (or invalid) as anybody's opinions on DY.
Top of pageBottom of page

Wazootyman
Member
Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 239
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lots of speculation in that article. No real information to back it up - just a lot of rumors and "probably" statements. I am offended that "talent" can't be attracted to Metro Detroit. I consider myself talented and happily successful.

Danindc - piss off.

Finally, if we're spreading rumors...Don't be surprised if Quicken files for bankruptcy and/or cuts their workforce by about 20% in the next month or so. With the state of the mortgage business nationwide, I think a move downtown is the least of their priorities.
Top of pageBottom of page

Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 3007
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, while Johnlodge might be doing fine personally, and that's terrific. VW, among other companies, is posting a VERY CLEAR message right now. So rationalize and make all the excuses you want, Johnlodge, Wazootyman, and others. There's a big-ass world beyond Michigan, and your city and your state aren't even TRYING to compete.

And Gistok--way to try to change the subject, but I'm not biting. I'm sure Slatkin has his reasons, but you're talking about one guy, while Michigan continues to bleed jobs. Glad to know you're thinking holistically!

You guys have fun inside your tortoise shells. Just curious to know which one of you knows how to fiddle.
Top of pageBottom of page

Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4804
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What if they moved to A2? Would it be much harder to attract people to A2? Anyone have any stats on this "attracting" the skilled masses? I know this exists but to what extent? Just how people does VW need to "attract" or hire? I mean, a company only needs so many skilled workers. Or is is something bigger in play? Does the surrounding environment city motivate employees?
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez

Post Number: 339
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5093
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 12:37 pm:

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
Well it looks like NOT ALL creative folks are leaving Detroit, some are even coming here.

This one from Dan's own DC....

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=20077081403 58

Surprise surprise!!

Why would anyone want to leave DC????


Talk about rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Do you seriously think Slatkin is planning on buying real estate and setting up roots in Detroit? He'll be flying in for rehearsals and concerts...living in a hotel as necessary...and getting out as fast as he can. High profile symphony conductors are mercenaries of the highest order.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5095
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan, I'm going to join the long list of DetroitYes forumers that would like to say how impressed I am that you know everything about every subject!
Top of pageBottom of page

Rb336
Member
Username: Rb336

Post Number: 1234
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, Dan, I guess Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, etc, are all making HUGE mistakes by investing literally billions in SE Mich?
Top of pageBottom of page

Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1755
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan, I understand we need to be more competitive. And? I vote for who I think will do the best job. And? I am perfectly happy, have a fantastic house, love the city I live in, love going to Detroit, do what I can to better my community. So what is your point? Why am I in a tortoise shell? Why do you think I don't think a world exists outside of Michigan? Because I'm happy? Because I think it's obnoxious that you tell me and everybody else to move away and turn off the lights? Is that your way of helping? Geezus man.
Top of pageBottom of page

Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 3011
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Dan, I'm going to join the long list of DetroitYes forumers that would like to say how impressed I am that you know everything about every subject!



I certainly don't know everything. But I sure as shit know what young, educated people are seeking in a place to live. And I also know that companies are going to locate where they can find these people.

You guys think that middle-age concerns like "lower taxes" and "cheap housing prices" actually matter to 20-and-30-somethings who have options.

Maybe you could petition the Legislature to change the name of the state from "Michigan" to "Denial"?
Top of pageBottom of page

Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100

Post Number: 1393
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

But I sure as shit know what young, educated people are seeking in a place to live.



I highly doubt that. If you did, you could tell me what I am looking for in a place and what I will do there.
Top of pageBottom of page

Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1757
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20070701/DEWIT TBATH05/707010580/1085/opinion

Here's an interesting article. Turns out it's actually the UNEDUCATED that are planning to leave the state. And in a survey of Oakland County residents (where 41% of the population have a BA or higher), NOBODY said they were planning to leave the state.

Does this mean everything is perfect? No. Does it mean I should "rent a U-Haul" and "turn the lights out when I leave"? Absolutely not.
Top of pageBottom of page

Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 3015
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd just like to reiterate that everything I've posted on this thread is already stated in the article. Just in case you thought I was making shit up.

Maybe you could start a letter-writing campaign to the Detroit News that they shouldn't badmouth Detroit like they did in the article?
Top of pageBottom of page

Wazootyman
Member
Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 240
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where did VW state they were leaving? I see the following phrases: "rife with speculation", "the reality is not nearly as severe as some of the rumors would suggest", "says a source familiar with the automaker's thinking", "Poll most Germans and nine out of 10 probably would choose a three-year tour in New York or Washington over Detroit". Where are the facts? Rumors are the best source this article has. In fact, I feel like the whole article takes the possibility of a move (which presently is unsubstantiated) and thinks of all the possible reasons why it could and should happen.

I just can't figure out what bug is up your ass, Dan. You speak as if you're THE authority on business relocation, with absolutely no knowledge of what goes on here. I work in a sector of Metro Detroit dominated by foreign employers, for a company that less than 10 years ago uprooted from their country and planted their headquarters here. They are actually speaking of building another office 3-4 story office building, as the local commercial market is relatively strong.

I can't imagine you're anything but a troll, which is something I wouldn't expect to see on this board.
Top of pageBottom of page

Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1758
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alright Dan, you're right, we'll all pack our things up and move away, because you know what's best for all of us, and you know we are all unhappy, miserable people since we live here.
Top of pageBottom of page

Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 3016
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those of you who don't like to read (or can't) I'll recap all the shit I've made up:

quote:

Yet in an e-mail sent Friday to Audi of America's 320 employees, Audi of America's Executive Vice President Johan de Nysschen acknowledged "stressful times" and said he could not "provide any more direction or comments to assuage the mountain of rumors running through our organization.



quote:

"As the head of Audi of America, I am complicit in the current state of affairs," he wrote, neglecting to mention that Audi's brass for some time has been pushing to move its headquarters east. "What I am able to tell you is that the reality is not nearly as severe as some of the rumors would suggest."



quote:

Second, it would enable parent VW to burnish its brands on the coasts by attracting talent that otherwise wouldn't consider opportunities here.



quote:

And third, it would theoretically jump-start flagging energy at VW and Audi in the States, partly by culling Michiganians unwilling to uproot.



quote:

Nor could it come at a worse time for Gov. Jennifer Granholm, who is scheduled to brief the media today and leave Saturday on her five-day investment mission to Germany and Sweden. A meeting with neither VW nor Audi officials is on the governor's agenda, her spokeswoman confirmed Monday.

Top of pageBottom of page

Wazootyman
Member
Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 241
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan, if you took TWO MINUTES, you could find good examples that don't exactly scream "rent the moving truck".

A quick search of Crain's found a small example regarding the "Oakland Emerging Sectors program"

From Crain's: http://crainsdetroit.com/apps/ pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070813 /SUB/708130337/-1/toc

quote:

Twenty businesses in high-tech or high-growth areas have either started, relocated or expanded in Oakland County in 2007:

Expansions

- World Alliance Finance, a New York state-based finance-sector company, is expected to bring 350 jobs to Troy.

- Landon IP Inc. of Alexandria, Va., an intellectual-property company, is planning to add 300 employees at its new Southfield office over six years.

- Tesla Motors Inc., which opened a technical center in Rochester Hills, is expected to create at least 50 local jobs by next year.

- Facton GbmH, a Germany-based communication/information-tech nology firm, will bring 59 new jobs to Auburn Hills.

- Cbeyond Inc., an Atlanta-based information-technology company, could add 100 jobs in its new location in Farmington Hills.

- Caraco Pharmaceutical Laboratories Inc. could add up to 85 jobs at a packaging plant it acquired in Farmington Hills.

- Wenzel America Ltd., a robotics and automation company, is expected to bring 10 jobs to Wixom.

- JMP Engineering Inc. of London, Ontario, relocated its Southeast Michigan offices to Troy from Livonia, bringing four to eight jobs to Oakland County.

- Acceledyne Technologies Ltd., the nanotech firm of engineer Donna Walker and her patented steel-strengthen-ing process, will create four jobs in Wixom.

- Sitronic GbmH, a German advanced electronics company, is creating two jobs at a facility in Farmington Hills.

- Prion GbmH, a German communications and information-technology firm, opened a Novi office for its U.S. headquarters and added two jobs.

- Kendrion Binder Magnetic, an advanced electronics firm, is creating two jobs in Auburn Hills.

- Netlink, a communications and information-technology company, could add up to 300 jobs as part of an expansion in Madison Heights.

- GreenPath Debt Solutions opened a finance office in Farming-ton Hills that is expected to bring 175 new jobs.

- EPrize Inc., a Pleasant Ridge-based online-promotions company, pledged to add new office space and 200 jobs to its 350 employees nationwide.

- Media Genesis Inc., a Madison Heights maker of Internet video and DVDs, is opening a location in Royal Oak and is expected to add 125 jobs or more over seven years.

- Chrysler Financial will add 100 jobs at its Farmington Hills location after other divisions of DaimlerChrysler Financial move to another location.

- Adept Plastic Finishes Inc., an advanced materials company, is expanding in Wixom and is expected to add 40 jobs.

- RTT USA Inc., a maker of 3-D product design and engineering simulations is adding 10 or more jobs after moving to Royal Oak.

- Romax Technology, a German advanced electronics firm, is adding three jobs at an existing facility in Troy

Top of pageBottom of page

Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1759
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan, perhaps you can help me and just tell me what your point is? I am a tortoise because I don't move? Or do you just want to point out everything bad you can think of in hopes it will inspire people to do more about it?

I'm getting really curious as to what you're trying to prove, and also why I'm a tortoise.
Top of pageBottom of page

Spartacus
Member
Username: Spartacus

Post Number: 215
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan, isn't there another city you can criticize from afar? Tell us what cities you're interested in and I'll help you find the DetroitYes equivalent for that city. There are a lot of other people around the country who could stand to gain from the knowledge you have to offer. I'm afraid its lost on us.
Top of pageBottom of page

Wazootyman
Member
Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 242
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Again, there are NO FACTS in those statements, only speculation and rumors.

I'll invite you over to help me move if it actually comes true.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ffdfd
Member
Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 141
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ah, the usual dose of schadenfreude from Dan. The thing I don't get is, if DC is so vibrant and dynamic, why isn't he out there living it. And if his knowledge is as vast as he would have us believe, his employer would be dumping too much work on his desk for him to condescend to peons like us in an area that is neither his hometown nor his current residence.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bobj
Member
Username: Bobj

Post Number: 2344
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Mr Danindc,

Granted, DC has many things that could be considered more attractive than living in SE MI. Let me tell you a story. My son graduated from James Madison College (policical science) at MSU 5 years ago, he and all his friends couldn't wait to run off to the fun and excitment of DC.

5 years later and my son's salary more than doubling, he still lives a low end life style due to the truly unbelievable cost of living in DC. He tried VA, Maryland, and the District and between rent, taxes, and the cost of everything, he and many of his friends have concluded that boring old MI is not so bad. Some have moved back, my son is currently looking to move back to MI.
Top of pageBottom of page

Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1760
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He has an awful lot of interest in a city that is so completely crappy and useless, that every single person living in and around it should immediately rent a u-haul, pack their things up, turn out the lights, and leave.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez

Post Number: 340
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Howes didnt make that stuff upout of thin air. If you want to act defensively and entrench, then go ahead...look where it has gotten Detroit so far.

When a major company considers relocating in order to distance itself from a state and all of the dismal baggage that goes with it, one might think that is a problem.

quote:

The thinking behind a move is that it ostensibly would distance Audi and VW from troubled Michigan and a beleaguered industry.



The following speaks for itself and is certainly not surprising or new:
quote:

Second, it would enable parent VW to burnish its brands on the coasts by attracting talent that otherwise wouldn't consider opportunities here.



Finally, they obviously think the world of the available employment pool here in Michigan:
quote:

And third, it would theoretically jump-start flagging energy at VW and Audi in the States, partly by culling Michiganians unwilling to uproot.



This isn't exactly good press notwithstanding the aggregate wealt in Oakland County that has been trumpted about since the early 80's:
quote:

Audi wants "a luxury perspective and orientation and they don't think they can get it here" in Michigan,



This isn't what one might call a favorable factor in your decision as to where one might locate:
quote:

the long tales of woe surrounding Detroit's automakers, their hometown and Michigan are essentially liabilities to recruiting outsiders and promoting insiders. Poll most Germans and nine out of 10 probably would choose a three-year tour in New York or Washington over Detroit


Nor is it a good sign when the executive teams of major companies HQ'd in SE Michigan can't bear the thought of actually traveling there to take care of business:
quote:

Finally, like the early days of the failed DaimlerChrysler marriage when Jürgen Schrempp and the boys looked for every chance to meet in New York and avoid Auburn Hills altogether, the prospect of coming to America for meetings and a little fun in, say, the nation's capital trumps three days in Detroit.



I don't know why people choose to shoot the messengers. This is seriously bad news to which people should pay serious attention, and that column has definitely picked up on the troubling undercurrents moving through the Detroit business community.
Top of pageBottom of page

Vas
Member
Username: Vas

Post Number: 772
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More bang for the buck! MI style

love the cost of living here
Top of pageBottom of page

Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 3017
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, how about ragging on Masterblaster, Focusonthed, Detroitrulez, and Rocket_city? I don't see anyone riding their ass for saying the same exact thing that I am. Typical Michigander Xenophobia? I forgot--everything is just peachy in Michigan, *especially* in Detroit, and *especially* in the auto industry.

Maybe the REAL problem is that Detroiters take everything too damned personally, and would rather shoot a (foreign) messenger than address the tougher problem of a brain drain? Some of your responses, to me, do not indicate a populace with critical thinking and reasoning abilities, and in fact, demonstrate widespread irrationality--not too good for someone who's looking to make a buck.
Top of pageBottom of page

Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1761
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DR, that's not the point. We know the story, we live here. But why belittle us and call us tortoises and tell us to move? We pay attention to this news. Perhaps some ignore it, not me. I know the scoop. But I don't understand the point of saying it over and over again as if that is somehow going to solve the problem. We are trying to solve the problem. Yes, there is bad news. There is also good news. That's life, buddy. I'm doing OK, as are many many others around here. Do we want to improve things? Yes. Do we need Danindc to tell us we suck and we should all move? No, no thanks.
Top of pageBottom of page

Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1762
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"And would rather shoot a (foreign) messenger than address the tougher problem of a brain drain?"

Oh is THAT what I should be doing? Alright, tomorrow I will address the tougher problem of brain drain. I'll get right on that.

News flash, a lot of us really like living here, we do read the news, we do know what's going on, and STILL choose not to move. Sorry if that doesn't please you.

Also, I didn't attack you, I asked you what your point is and why you called me a tortoise. You still haven't asnwered those questions.
Top of pageBottom of page

Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 3018
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

We are trying to solve the problem.



How is this? Are the new permanent casinos going to keep U of M grads from moving to Chicago?

I never said you guys need to move. Just don't be surprised if a lot of people DO move away to find opportunity elsewhere.

Maybe you like your house. That's fine. Someone coming out of college probably isn't looking to buy a house, though, and to spend every weekend cutting the grass. At least recognize that not everyone lives, or wants, the suburban American Dream. Michigan really provides no alternative to this. So don't be surprised when people who do not share your vision take themselves, their talent, their earnings, and their tax payments, elsewhere. That's all.

It just seems like you're saying, "I don't understand why people would leave here!"
Top of pageBottom of page

Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1764
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan I didn't ask for Casinos. But I think there is an effort to get different types of jobs in here. And I can definitely see whats going on downtown right now, and it is mind boggling compared to when I went to school down there less than 10 years ago. But damn, there is a LONG way to go. No, I understand why some people would want to leave. And I do understand why people would want to live in a more hip urban area. I sort of do, thats why I live so close to downtown Ferndale. I get a little mix of nice neighborhoods with great sidewalks for walking, plus a small downtown area. Nothing compared to a big city like Chicago, obviously, but works for me. But you did earlier tell us to start renting U-Hauls, and you did lay down a rather blanket statement that we are all tortoises who ignore the facts. I think that is not true at all.

I can understand your frustration watching bad decisions being made here, but I share those frustrations as well! Don't blame me and other people on here who have an enthusiasm for Detroit for all of these decisions. As I said, I vote for who I think will do the best job. But like I said, while too many young people may want to leave, others are moving to downtown Detroit for the first time in God knows how long.
Top of pageBottom of page

Wazootyman
Member
Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 243
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's seriously bad news IF it happens. Again, I do not see any firm evidence that it's going to. If it does not, then it is nothing but assuming the worst and hoping for the worst (c'mon, we all buy the paper for its DETROIT BLOWN OUT, EVERYONE IS LAID OFF headlines, right?). In my opinion, Mr. Howes is making a lot of loose assumptions of what could happen, based on perceptions he has and/or rumors he has heard.

I know what's going on...I see good and bad. I don't dwell on the bad; it's counterproductive.

I choose to live here. I chose the surburban lifestyle...I'm 25 with an engineering degree. I have friends in Detroit, Ferndale, Birmingham and RO who feel like they're living a pretty satisfyingly urban lifestyle. Oh, and we're all employed (go figure?)
Top of pageBottom of page

Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1765
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PS as a resident of DC, I think you should understand that our elected leaders don't always do what we want them to do. Eh? But I don't blame all of America for what happens.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjw
Member
Username: Jjw

Post Number: 401
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I choose to live here. I chose the surburban lifestyle...I'm 25 with an engineering degree. I have friends in Detroit, Ferndale, Birmingham and RO who feel like they're living a pretty satisfyingly urban lifestyle. Oh, and we're all employed (go figure?)"
---So Wazoo, just curious: Is it the suburban or urban lifestyle that you are satisfied with? You mentioned both and I was a bit confused.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez

Post Number: 342
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

eh boy....
Top of pageBottom of page

Wazootyman
Member
Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 244
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live in Livonia. I have friends who live in the aforementioned cities. We're all satisfied. That make more sense?
Top of pageBottom of page

3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 872
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't you folks understand that by arguing with Dannyboy you're just encouraging him? He loves it. His smug superiority is fed by the attention focused on him and his rambling no-nothing observations lifted from Wikipedia.

Asserting a negative attitude towards Detroit is my job. I live and invest here and am entitled. At least whatever negative comments I make are fact-based and balanced (hopefully). It doesn't take two of us.

I agree w/ Scs100. Danny doesn't know the first thing about where "young educated people are seeking in a place to live." If he did he'd be out investing in apartments and clubs in those areas instead of venting his nonsense here.

He states that we "think that middle-age (sic) concerns like 'lower taxes' and 'cheap housing prices' actually matter to 20 and 30 somethings who have options." Well, duh, yes we do. He must think MI universities churn out idiots who have no real-life concerns such as the cost of living.

And, what are the "options" the guy refers to? He says the 20-30 "somethings" have "options" which make them immune to concerns like taxes and the cost of living. Maybe if we ask him nicely he'll tell us what options are available to us so we can divest ourselves of such concerns.

Admit this. The guy is amusing in a perverted way and he does have one ability and that's how to rile up folks, me included, who ordinarily should have better things to do. As he does not.

Note to D; probably 30% of U of M students are from out-of-state. It doesn't take a genius to realize that probably a very high percentage of those folks will leave the state after graduation to go back to their home-states. And there's probably dozens of finance/marketing grads who would kill to get jobs at one of our casinos. Some of them probably will.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ffdfd
Member
Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 142
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From a Freep story last September (no longer available for free on its site).
quote:

Despite real concerns that people, especially young people, are leaving Michigan, some demographers say the notion of a brain drain - a debilitating loss of educated people - has been oversold to an anxious public hammered by bad news about the automotive industry.

"It's certainly overblown, and to some extent has characteristics of a myth," said Jim Rogers, manager of data for the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments, a regional planning agency.

In fact, the state's population is growing, and its population of college graduates also is on the rise.


quote:

The idea of a Michigan brain drain arose because, for many years, Census Bureau figures have shown that more college graduates leave Michigan for other states than move in from elsewhere in the country. The net outflow is particularly strong among younger residents.

But that's just part of the story.

The state's population continues to increase, thanks to the natural birth rate and an influx of immigrants from overseas.

Perhaps even more important for the state's economic future, Michigan's population of college graduates - the people who put the "brain" in brain drain - has been increasing, not declining. Between 2001 and 2004, the Census Bureau's American Community Survey data showed a net increase of 35,700 people with a bachelor's degree or higher choosing to migrate to Michigan.


quote:

Foreign immigration plays a big part. In terms of state-to-state migration, more college grads leave Michigan than arrive. But the rising number of educated immigrants - mainly men with mechanical engineering degrees from Canada, India and China - tips the balance into the positive column.


quote:

Probably because of the demands of the auto industry, metro Detroit's foreign immigrants rank among the most educated in the nation, Frey said. Of the 50 metro areas with the highest percentages of college-educated immigrants, metro Detroit ranked fourth highest. More than 53% of foreign immigrants who came to this area in 2004-2005 had a bachelor's degree or higher.


quote:

Whether young college grads move out of Michigan depends to a great extent on where they grew up. About 53% of U-M's 2001-2005 graduates still live in the state, data from the university show.

But there's a big contrast between the students who were Michigan natives and those who came to U-M from out-of-state, research analyst Fielding said.

About 77% of grads who were Michigan natives still live in the state. In contrast, only 10% of U-M graduates who came to Ann Arbor from another state still live in Michigan. But those out-of-state graduates were the ones the state might have expected to lose anyway.



Many of my friends from high school and college moved out of state after college. But quite a few of them eventually moved back. Young people like to experience new things. Then when they need free babysitting, they like to be near family if possible.

I don't have my head in the sand. There is bad news around here every day and there is a lot to fix. But metro Detroit going the way of Machu Picchu is not inevitable.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3742
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

During the late 1990s, Michigan was 36th in per capita college graduates. During the past governor's race, Granholm used the 39th figure. I have since seen the latter figure repeatedly, so it's probably correct. Assuming the same rating criteria, that would appear to disagree with the above post in that regard. Although it possible for Michigan to move up a bit in absolute terms but fall back relative to the other states. The latter, though, is a certainty...

And SEMCOG is disputed by all parties, it seems, for a reason or another.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ffdfd
Member
Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 144
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LY, we can certainly improve a great deal in educating our citizens. The point of my post is the news is not all doom and gloom on the brain drain front. I can't vouch for SEMCOG's spin, but the article included stats from the Census Bureau and the University of Michigan. Here's another excerpt.
quote:

As recently as 1980, the Census Bureau found just 8,300 foreign immigrants with college degrees coming to Michigan during the previous five-year period. By 2001-2004, though, the number of college-educated foreigners arriving in the state had totaled 61,800.

Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 3743
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Census Bureau attributed some of Detroit's population loss by 2005 due to its attracting about 1/4 the number of immigrants as it should have (compared to other cities' experience in that regard).

It stands to reason that immigrants, including illegals, generally go to areas that offer decent job-hiring prospects. SE Michigan, with something like 1/3 million un/underemployed, doesn't fit into those game plans for immigrants (or US citizens migrating here, FTM).
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5100
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL.... 3WC's comment....

"Asserting a negative attitude towards Detroit is my job. I live and invest here and am entitled. At least whatever negative comments I make are fact-based and balanced (hopefully). It doesn't take two of us."

^^^^ Priceless! :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Bucket
Member
Username: Bucket

Post Number: 40
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's take this into perspective. If you were an American auto executive traveling to Europe for business, would you rather go to a town like Wolfsburg or Stuttgart for meetings with VW or Daimler, or would you rather schedule meetings in a tourist destination like Cologne or Munich? If you were going to Italy, would you prefer Turin (Fiat HQ) over Rome? Now that I've equally offended Detroiters, Wolfsburg-ites, Stuttgartians and Torinese, I would add that Detroit is more difficult to get to from Europe than New York or Washington, just as Wolfsburg and Stuttgart are more difficult to get to from Detroit compared to major European cities like London, Paris and Amsterdam.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 265
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The purpose of business trips is, by definition, business. So what difference does it make where the business is being conducted? For the most part, a conference room is a conference room is a conference room, whether it's in Köln, Detroit, or Ashkhabad. I'm not understanding why this is a compelling argument in favor of moving the headquarters.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1377
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To deny that there is a brain drain going on in Michigan is just crazy. Of all the people I know from Michigan who graduated from college in the past 4 or 5 years, no less than 90% have left. The very few who stayed either work for Ford, GM or Quicken; representing two industries in turbulent times right now.

One of my friends who stayed in Michigan, but isn't originally from Michigan, recently visited NYC on a job hunt, because he's desperate to get away from there. He said the environment offers him nothing, and he needs to be in a big city. He's in metro-Detroit, mind you... a region once surrounded by a big city. He graduated from Michigan too, and trust me, he's not the only one who feels that way. As much as I love Detroit, and as much as I want others to love it too, I really can't fault him. Heck, after seeing how other places live, I'm having trouble convincing myself to come back. That's a complete 360 from when I left and had my heart set on returning.

Michigan cannot retain the natives nor attract migrants in its current state. It doesn't have a strong economy to compete with the south, nor a celebrated sense of vibrancy to compete with the coasts and Chicago. You can stick your head in the sand if you want to, but that's the reality of it. I really can't blame anyone for leaving right now. Nine times out of ten, when I'm on the phone with someone still back in Michigan, the topic of leaving creeps up at least once during the course of the conversation.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 1531
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The first thing we could do to solve things is completely clean house in terms of state government. We have a bunch of amateurs who all have no idea what they are doing, and need to learn a word called compromise. Polls have shown that residents will not go for a tax increase when they do not trust the government not to waste the money. And to think we can just cut $1.8 billion is just foolish, unless you are Leon Drolet and want to get rid of government altogether (except his pension). There needs to be changes in health care and pensions to teachers. Granholm needs to give in on that. Bishop is an idiot who just goes by the Republican line of no new taxes, but does not have the stomach to cut anything. In the meantime, we continue to bleed jobs, and residents and the college educated people.
Top of pageBottom of page

Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 1781
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amen Bob. When the two parties do nothing but posture and argue and refuse to compromise, they are forgeting their job is to serve US. We have a terrible budget defecit, yet we can't raise taxes and we can't cut spending? Thanks a f$*#(ing lot, government. Apparently economics 101 is not required for entering politics.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 1533
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the past decade, politics have become polarized to the point that it is holding up progress for the whole nation. The question to ask is when does it reach the boiling point that people will actually get off their butts and vote, and when will we get some candidates who are worth voting for? I think the answer to that question is we are very close, especially in this state. I think the next couple elections in this state will tell a lot. I would hope the Republicans put up more than DeVos (and they would have a good chance of winning), and the Democrats put up someone other than the Lt. Governor. I think you will see a massive clearly out of our useless state legislature no matter what party they belong to.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 354
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bearinabox, I understand your argument about a conference room. But, as a visitor, where would you rather spend your excess time outside of the conference:

On the Detroit River

or in the fields surrounding the Chrysler HQ in Auburn Hills.

I guess my point also addresses Bucket's comments. While Bucket illustrated a macro concept, why not make it micro as well and ask, if you were an exec, would you rather go to a place like Auburn Hills or a place like downtown Detroit?

While it might be a little nerve-wracking to think of Detroit as a global city, I don't think we should shy away from it. That's not to say we shouldn't be absolutely realistic about the city's potential, but we're participating in a global marketplace and so Detroit should be thought of as just as easily accessible as New York and Washington from points around the globe.

In terms of partisan politics in this state, I'm on board with what others have said as well. The Dem/Repub relationship in Michigan is a disaster.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez

Post Number: 347
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.....
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070816/BUS INESS01/70816017/1002/BUSINESS
Top of pageBottom of page

Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 6352
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good riddance to those German Automakers! They have been a profit loss to Dailer-Chrysler and now the VW HQ is moving on BACK TO GERMANIA!

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.