  Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3575 Registered: 02-2005 |
At long last, things are coming back together in the post-Jacobson's era, as a hundred million of almost entirely private developers' money is being pumped into a small, concentrated area in downtown Grosse Pointe on Kercheval/St. Clair. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2007708120664 Cheers to density, mixed-use developments, and a city manager who actually understands the benefits of this. Downtown GP as a destination and place to live + Kilpatrick's plan to stabilize East English Village through tax cuts + massive infill on the far east side = a much better east side with more continuity. With new housing units in the Village, and a trend of families moving into houses being sold that were home to empty-nesters in the 80s and 90s, population could go up quite a bit, especially in the southern Grosse Pointes. | ||
Elsuperbob Member Username: Elsuperbob Post Number: 28 Registered: 03-2007 |
It looks better than the ugly mess we in Dearborn got on our Jacobson's block. Hopefully it does turn out better. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5086 Registered: 08-2004 |
That's great news for the the folks in GPP! Now I wish they would develop the largest remaining parcel in the Grosse Pointes... the one in Grosse Pointe Farms kitty corner to the Pointe Plaza development next to the St. John Medical Center (used to be the site of a Sears store, a Hughes Hatcher, 9 residences, a huge parking lot, and the still occupied Kroger). That 5-7 acre site should be a great anchor for the Pointes. I guess they are still waiting for the Kroger lease to expire. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1552 Registered: 03-2006 |
figures a trader joes goes in right after i move away | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3576 Registered: 02-2005 |
Good news for all of the Pointes, I think, but especially the City of, because this will increase their tax base and population density without changing existing neighborhoods a bit. Plus more people will be within short walking distance of stores on Kercheval, with the creation of new condo units...helping the merchants. You mentioned GP Park-- yes those people on the eastern streets of GPP, in walking distance to the Village, will benefit much. So will their home prices. I also can't wait for something to happen there at Mack/Moross. Hopefully GPF follows this latest example and solicits developers who will provide a little height and a plan with no surface parking and good design. Honestly, why not build a 10-20 story high-rise with a skyline view? | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 451 Registered: 02-2006 |
Great news. More inner-ring suburban development means sprawl is beginning to slow. <313> | ||
Newport1128 Member Username: Newport1128 Post Number: 109 Registered: 05-2007 |
I just hope GPF doesn't make 7-Mack all senior housing...ugh. They do plenty for the rich old geezers who live there as it is. How about something to attract young people for a change? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5090 Registered: 08-2004 |
Newport 1128, I think that 1st floor retail with 2nd floor offices/medical and above that a boutique hotel and maybe some luxury condos would be OK. But yes, hopefully not like what Harper Woods did on the former Eastside Drive-In site. Boooooring. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 2000 Registered: 10-2003 |
This is good news for the Pointes. The GP area is a great place to live; I was an East English Village resident for five years and appreciated the proximity of downtown GP. Now it will be so much better. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1741 Registered: 10-2003 |
Detroit313, I think you are right about slowing sprawl and inner-ring development. Here's an 8-mile development in Oak Park that Schostak is working on that consists of single and multi family residential, as well as retail.   http://www.schostak.com/developments/ Sorry for the slight thread-jack. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3579 Registered: 02-2005 |
That's quite an open area there for redevelopment...do you know what it was formerly used for? These developments MIGHT slow sprawl in that they are adding housing supply in inner regions of the metro area on whatever available land remains. The buyers to which this will appeal to, though, are probably not those comtemplating moving to Auburn Hills and beyond, though. There is a slight chance that the Grosse Pointe developments will appeal to empty-nesters who might otherwise move up north or perhaps to an upscale development north of M59. I'd rather that younger people move into these downtown developments-- but again, these would be people who would weigh this environment against Ferndale, RO, or maybe some Detroit neighborhoods, meaning that it wouldn't curb sprawl. Grosse Pointe has a fair amount of older apartments and townhouses as it is, so there is already a market structure and known demographic for these developers. Sprawl will be curbed when the societal trend to move outward and build new is further diminished, when gasoline prices get too high, and when the government creates a tax structure and spending habits that do not favor new suburban development. ---- I believe that the Morningside design they have approved was the second best. Burton-Katzman submitted a knockout design, but the city manager said that their funding schemes would have been much too costly for the city. Morningside's design is still good, and I'm just glad they didn't go with Jonna's uncharacteristically lame scheme to put a new Kroger's in on one lot and improved surface parking on the other. Renderings here: https://grossepointecity-docs. org/default.aspx | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1898 Registered: 11-2003 |
Gistok/Mackinaw--- You guys gonna be mad at me if I suggest, like several others have, that the "remaining parcel" remain what it is now--a green area, soccer fields, a place to romp rather than more buildings, condos etc? The Moross/Mack area is busy enough and the St John Hospital addition opening next month will make it busier than ever. I like what they are doing down on Kercheval/St. Clair. But I'd like to see the Mack/Moross area remain or become a nice park, maybe even have some summer concerts etc. Not much open space left around here anymore. That Krogers has always been an eyesore, 20 years ago it was depressing. I don't know anyone who shops there. You want to put something up in its place, fine. But can we leave the space behind it open? I like progress, but I also like greenery,shrubs, trees etc. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 1394 Registered: 12-2006 |
^I agree. It's nice to drive by and see some green space at that corner. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 528 Registered: 08-2006 |
Considering that OAk Park development. Why not connect the roads with existing roads? Far to often especialy in the outer rind suburbs new developments often make no connection with existing streets often when there are dead ends that are made to be connected to empty parcels? Do people not want to be connected to other streets even when it can shorten necessary drives. The most extreme case of this I have seen is in Sterling Heights where a dead end road was made into a court in the new development with no houses on it!!! To see what I mean look at this aerial and zoom in on the dead end Beechnut st. When you get in closer the image is older and you can clearly see the new dead end court. Look around this area to see countless non connected "pod" subdivisions. http://maps.live.com/?q=Beechn ut+Dr+Sterling+Heights+MI&mkt= en-us&FORM=LIVSOP&go.x=0&go.y= 0&go=Search | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1773 Registered: 10-2003 |
Good question. People don't want through traffic? But in the case of that Oak Park development, I don't see the need to try to cut through the sub, so I'm really not sure! | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 1285 Registered: 09-2006 |
Mackinaw, it used to be a US Army depot of some sort facing 8 mile it was torn down a couple years back. Facing Greenfield it used to be a vibrant Bel-Air like strip mall with a Farmer Jack, HQ, and a Blockbuster amongst other things. All gone now though thats interesting. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1774 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mayor, that explains the name: Armory Park. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 529 Registered: 08-2006 |
There are neighborhoods streets at the NE corner of the site....at least one road connecting the sub to it. But I suppose that 60ft wide piece of land could be a $200000 house! | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 531 Registered: 08-2006 |
I also think the parcel in Oak Park should be left as is. There is a decent stand of woods on the parcel. How many people can live off 8 mile and have a thick collection of trees behind their house? On that developer site it is quite depressing seeing all of the plans in far out regions such as Salem Twp and Northfield Twp. The development in Northfield is huge! I didnt know there were that many people out there!?! Look at the surrounding area! http://www.schostak.com/develo pments/images/NorthfieldAerial(south).JPG | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5101 Registered: 08-2004 |
The Oak Park site used to be referred to as The Detroit Artillery Armory. The_rock, I don't think that Grosse Pointe Farms had those 9 houses along Moross leveled just to put some trees and grass there without there actually being a park. The baseball diamonds west of there will remain intact, but that HUGE Kroger parking lot, as well as Kroger, will probably end up as a development, along with the former sites of those 9 houses, Sears and Hughes Hatchers. As for there being a park on that site. I don't think that's gonna happen because the land is much too valuable. If it were a park, it would be right across the street from Detroit, and as past history has shown Grosse Pointers don't like outsiders using their parks. They'd have to put a fence and gate around it. That would look tacky for a major intersection. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 634 Registered: 12-2006 |
Also: somebody owns that property. They are entitled to use the property as they see fit, subject to the constraints of zoning. If the City wants a new park on what is currently private property, it would have to purchase the property. Very few cities in SE MI right now have the kind of funds available where it is reasonable to purchase land for open space. Therefore, developable private property is likely to develop. I like parks as much as anyone; don't get me wrong. But some people here speak of that idea as though it doesn't cost anything, which is a fallacy. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3584 Registered: 02-2005 |
GP Farms, like the other Pointes, has a lakefront park, and plenty of other fields such as Messner, Brownell, GP Academy, and Kerby field (right behind the parcels that we are now talking about). The open space at this prominent corner is overkill. Nobody uses is, except for the soccer fields. The area right by the corner there is just grass and trees where a few bums probably try to sleep before being promptly evicted. There is so much empty land there that you could probably build new buildings along the road and expand the Kerby Field complex into what is not the Kroger parking lot, thus satiating people demanding open space such as the_Rock. They have to get a big money development to justify demolishing those houses (they weren't great houses, but they still went through a lot of trouble to demo them), and if they create something that is higher density, then it is totally worth it. The goal should be to make Mack more continuously walkable. It's a great corridor with hardly any noticeable difference between the Detroit and GPs side, but it can be improved considerably. A good developement at 7/Mack will also rub off on the NE corner of Detroit a ton. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1899 Registered: 11-2003 |
OK- You guys are convincing. Bring on the construction. Maybe there is room for both. I will call Schostak. Plus, put in a park, put up a fence, and jjaba and his minions will be out there with the picket signs. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3589 Registered: 02-2005 |
Ahhhh but we all know there's nothing they could do. The park policies are rock solid. I hope it's a developer/architect/builder from a larger stage and not another Monahan build decked out with faux stone. No offensive to him...he creates some nice bank branches, but this needs to be something substantial. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5117 Registered: 08-2004 |
Mackinaw are you talking about the Fifth-Third Bank on Kercheval on The Hill where the Standard Gas Station used to be in the Farms? (That type of faux finish?) I think that the Moross/Mack corner could use higher end retail with a small boutique hotel. I think that well heeled folks visiting friends and family in the Pointes should have a nice place to stay, if they don't want to inconvenience them by staying in the "east wing" of their hosts residence.  Also, since St. John covers a patient area up into the Thumb of Michigan, it would be convenient for friends and family of patients to have a close place to stay. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3592 Registered: 02-2005 |
That's a great idea. It makes so much sense I'd actually be surprised if it didn't happen. Yeah Monahan did that building, the new, good-looking (but quite faux) bank building at Kercheval-Cadieux, and another bank branch on top of a former gas station on Mack/Cook. They also have the condos being built at the controversial lakeshore site. Back on the topic of the Village, the city manager has said that the parking garage/retail complex on the west side of St. Clair Ave. has the possibility of growing taller than three stories, and that the city is also looking into possible development for street frontage on Notre Dame Ave. behind that garage. Since one-sided streets normally don't work too well for retail activity/pedestrians, I'm wondering what this might mean long term for Kroger and their parking lot on Notre Dame. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5120 Registered: 08-2004 |
I just saw a brochure for the new "Van Elslander Pavilion" 7 story addition to the back of St. John. Besides all the clinical areas, it'll have something like 228 private (1 bed) hospital rooms. Sounds like St. John wants to compete with Bon Secour and Cottage for well insured Grosse Pointers. | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 128 Registered: 07-2006 |
I heard Bon Secour and Cottage were turning into Beaumont hospitals. I am not sure of the deal, but those doctors will be extra welcome to this side of town. Bon Secour has been a nightmare in the past. Sounds like to competition is on if this is the case. http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms 2/summary_0199-6571060_ITM I enjoy that park strip at 7/mack because that entire corner is pretty crappy looking as it is. It is the only thing keeping that entire intersection looking reasonable. Now if they had a free and clear slate to work with, then I would have a different opinion. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5121 Registered: 08-2004 |
I knew that Bons Secours is going to be a Beaumont Hospital, but I thought that Cottage was going to Henry Ford? Beaumont just built a large doctors office building on Little Mack in SCS south of 10 Mile Rd., so yes they are competing against St. John on this side of town. And St. John has Providence Hospital, so it's tit-for-tat. | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 133 Registered: 07-2006 |
You are right gistok. They are Henry Ford, and both are welcome to this side of town. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1905 Registered: 11-2003 |
The folks I've talked with at St.John's indicate that the competition will become more heated between them and Henry Ford rather than Beaumont. We shall see. The new Van Eslander Pavilion is scheduled to have its open house for the community on Sept. 20, and the "donors" have a showing on Sept.16. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 5125 Registered: 08-2004 |
Well since Cottage is much smaller than Bon Secour, I find that interesting The_rock. And I don't think a lot of Grosse Pointers will want to go to the main Henry Ford Medical Center, with the nice homey feel of Cottage close by. | ||
Newport1128 Member Username: Newport1128 Post Number: 111 Registered: 05-2007 |
Cottage has greatly limited its services over the years. It now has no inpatient beds; all surgery is outpatient. Where the patient can be treated may also depend on what insurance they have. When my mom had a minor stroke two years ago, she was taken to St. John. Her HAP Senior Plus insurance insisted she be transferred to Henry Ford downtown. | ||
Burningwheel Member Username: Burningwheel Post Number: 9 Registered: 06-2007 |
I think the structure looks like shit and doesn't blend at all. it's MUCH too large, just wait and see... |
