  E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1301 Registered: 11-2004 |
This sounds like an interesting idea. Anyone have any experience with it? 'Smart' electric meters may save residents cash Hourly energy pricing gives consumers best deal. Eric Morath / The Detroit News New "smart" electric meters could be on their way to Michigan homes -- potentially allowing customers to buy cheaper power and eliminating the utility's need for walking meter readers. DTE Energy is in the final planning stages of a $300 million project that would replace its 2.7 million residential electric meters with smart meters. The Detroit-based utility is on track to begin installation of the new meters this year. The entire project will take up to five years to complete. The state's second-largest utility, Jackson-based Consumers Energy, has identified smart metering techniques as part of its 20-year plan to meet growing electricity demand and is studying the concept. The smart meter concept is gaining attention nationwide as both the state and the country struggle to keep up with increased demand for energy. Smart meters are able to price energy by the hour, which could inspire consumers to shift more of their energy use to off-peak hours, when rates are cheaper. And in the long term, such systems could help stabilize rates for all customers, reduce the need for additional power plants and control pollution. "In the future, customers could see exactly how much energy is costing them and they could decide to defer laundry usage until after 7 o'clock," said Bob Sitkauskas, manager of DTE's advanced metering infrastructure project. "It could save them money and save us on our peak usage." http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070813/B IZ/708130348 | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9683 Registered: 10-2003 |
It will NOT allow you to buy cheaper power because "peak" demand ( I believe from 10AM-6PM) will prices are going to be higher, mid-peak (6PM-10PM) demand is still higher but off-demand(10PM-10AM) will be lower than what you are paying already. Unless you are going to do your cooking and washing after 10:00PM look forward to higher bills. This is nothimg more than a money grab posed to look "environmental" and "saving money" which it doesn't. I know a few people on these meters (which YOU will becharged for and they cost more than your normal meter, so there is an icnrease right there)already and their bills have gone up even though they are using less energy. Good luck. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 863 Registered: 01-2005 |
DTE is a cut throat company which owns the MPSC. They are ruthless and deceitful. Those are a couple of the reasons I'm a shareholder. Goat is 100% correct. | ||
Rickinatlanta Member Username: Rickinatlanta Post Number: 98 Registered: 07-2006 |
Can't speak for DTE but many electric utilities define "on-peak" as Mon - Fri, 2PM - 7PM; "Shoulder Peak" is 12Noon - 2PM & 7PM - 9PM. ALL other hours are considered "off - peak" including weekends and holidays. This applies during the months of June - September. ALL other months are "off - peak" as well. This rate structure is proven to work well residentially as dishwashers can be set to run off peak, water heaters can have timers installed to also heat off - peak. | ||
Xphillipjrx Member Username: Xphillipjrx Post Number: 152 Registered: 11-2004 |
The A/C in my parents' house is on a separate circuit from the rest of the house. The Man can cycle it's power during peak hours. If Smart Metering contains this feature there will be plenty of surprised people over the next five years! | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 245 Registered: 02-2007 |
This sounds like the "Heat pump" scam. The utilities were behind that one tooth and nail. Yes they are more efficient, IF you live in an area with almost stable temps to begin with. Below 57 degrees most of them were just an electric furnace. Any HVAC person knows how efficient they are. Practically a dead short. Spin meter spin. DTE is spending 300 million to save you money? Thanks for the laugh. | ||
Rickinatlanta Member Username: Rickinatlanta Post Number: 99 Registered: 07-2006 |
Most a/c demand reduction programs are voluntary and can be rescinded at any time by the consumer. You may want to check into taking them off. The a/c is very likely on a separate circuit but it still has to go through a main panel unless there's also a separate meter for it as well. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9686 Registered: 10-2003 |
Rickatlanta, while you are corect about "off-peak" hours and the week-end being considered off peak as well, the consumer is going to pay more. This is a fact from those I know who are on this metering system. They still cut back on power yet still paid more. Maybe kids can eat at 10:00Pm or you can do laundry all weekend long. For the rest of us who work normal hours this is going to cost you a few bucks more and you will get nothing in return. Whatever happened to fixing the grid and getting more generating plants? We do live in a first world nation but with our politicians one would think we live in a 3rd world nation. This is nothing but a money grab. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 248 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "Maybe kids can eat at 10:00Pm or you can do laundry all weekend long. For the rest of us who work normal hours this is going to cost you a few bucks more and you will get nothing in return." Spot on. It's going to be cheaper (or the same price it is now) when you don't need it and more expensive when you do. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 23 Registered: 01-2007 |
I do hope the part about being able to see your power usage is something that happens or becomes more readily available. I'm often curious of what my power usage is real time, and short of turning something on or off and then walking out to the side of the house to observe the electric meter, this isn't easy. Especially now being in a new house with new appliances, etc, I often wonder how much power I'm using at that time. Why can't we have a meter inside that shows us real-time and accumulated usage? | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2721 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think you're all missing the bigger picture. I think this is a preemptive play for the electric companies to avoid having to build more electric plants. The real demand changer will be plug-in hybrid vehicles. They see a huge increase in electricity demand being generated by the plug-in vehicles. By putting in hour based meters they can persuade their customers into recharging their vehicles at night when factory, office and home AC demands are lower. We will be changing the way we fuel our vehicles. Larger electricity bills are going to be one of the side effects. As demand goes up so do the prices. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1070 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: I was given a Kill A Watt Model P4400 as a gift and it is a very useful device. You can connect it to any household appliance to assess its power consumption and efficiency. It has a large LCD display which shows consumption by the kilowatt hour, allowing you to track electrical usage by an appliance over as long of a time period as you wish. You can also use it to check the quality of your incoming power by monitoring voltage, line frequency and power factor. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2340 Registered: 11-2003 |
One of the biggest costs in power production is having generation capacity to meet peak demand and not have brown outs. Peak demand is maybe 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. The rest of the time you have capacity sitting around doing nothing except costing money to maintain to have ready the next time a peak hour comes. This is all in your rates now. Moving electric demand through have residential users do laundry at 10:00 pm will do almost nothing to change demand cycles. What you need to do is to move HUGE users of electricity (industrial processes) to off hours by offering them lower rates to do so and managing the use by giant office complexes like the RenCen, Wayne State, etc. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 881 Registered: 01-2005 |
I was starting to get excited about smart meters but close reading of the article does make clear that I won't benefit for years and years. But I'll still have to take time off of work to have DTE install the smart meter that they are so hot about. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 2342 Registered: 11-2003 |
Every meter will need to be replaced, that means literally millions of trips to individual locations. It will take years | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 9262 Registered: 09-2005 |
This system has been in use in AZ for many years. For the typical worker who is gone during the day, home nights and weekends, some have seen bills drop by 1/3. There are 2 rate plans: Time of day - simply with higher rates during weekday daylight hours. Cheaper at night and weekends. Demand time of day - additional savings if you can limit peak demand during peak hours. The idea is to limit peak demand during summer hours M-F when everyone wants power and industrial users must have it regardless of cost. Limiting use by others during these hours (voluntarily) saves building power plants and/or buying power on the open market at the going rate. Regarding all the "laundry" talk above: Hint - buy a gas dryer. The motors in washers & dryers won't cost you much regardless of when you use them - it's the heating element in an electric dryer. With a gas dryer you can do laundry anytime you wish. Bonus: depending on pricing, power nights and weekends is MUCH less. This allows you to use AC during those times without much regard for the cost. Makes for nice sleeping. Recently there have been rumblings about changing these plans, if interested I'll post updates. Haven't studied details yet. These plans have been very popular for many years. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9687 Registered: 10-2003 |
Then why is Mid-peak demand (from 6:00PM-10:00PM) more expensive than what we are being charged currently? By the way, if it wasn't for places like Arizona and Vegas we woldn't have half the issues we do now with electricity. Nothing like diverting massive amounts of electricity and water to places that shouldn't even be inhabited. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 9267 Registered: 09-2005 |
Not sure what they're doing, AZ doesn't have "mid-peak" rates. AZ built its own nuke, so kwitcherbitchen. Regarding water, it comes from snowfall and CO River - it isn't from Lake Michigan, so once again, kwit. BTW, using your logic, since MI doesn't produce its own oil, hang up those car keys....... | ||
Rickinatlanta Member Username: Rickinatlanta Post Number: 100 Registered: 07-2006 |
"Diverting massive amounts of electricity" is not happening as retail wheeling is not feasible beyond a defined distance, i.e 1 - 2 states away from the source. And no the transmission grid is not intertwined nationally. Each region pretty much stands on its own. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 24 Registered: 01-2007 |
Thanks for the tip, Mikeg. Something like that would definitely be helpful! |
