Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2007 » The lights come back on in downtown Detroit « Previous Next »
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Prokopowicz
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Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From this Sunday's Chicago Tribune travel section, and on line at
http://www.chicagotribune.com/ travel/chi-detroit_nite_rc_pma ug12,0,816650.story
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1422
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nice comments about Detroit, except I was still disappointed that the author started off in this way: "DETROIT - OK, the town isn't one solid mass of fun and frolic." Honestly, and Chicago is? The author stills feels the need to inform the reader that Detroit isn't up to the 'standards' of Chicago; that is a bit annoying.
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Number1
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Post Number: 16
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree. I don't know why these writers feel the need to bash Detroit all the time. It is as if bashing Detroit makes them feel better about themselves and their city.
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Fury13
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Post Number: 1994
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Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

News Flash: Detroit ISN'T up to the standards of Chicago. MANY more nightlife options in Chicago (duh!).

The article is for a Chicago audience; targeted to Chicagoans. Considering that, the article makes perfect sense.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1425
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Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah I guess we just can't understand that Chicago is "one solid mass of fun and frolic."
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Elsuperbob
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Post Number: 26
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that line is being blown out of proportion. I think it's the way for the author to say sure Detroit is in a rough patch right now but it hasn't affected the spirits of its citizens and the continued improvement the city is seeing overall. It really is a stretch to say just because he said that he's a snobby Chicagoan sticking his nose up at Detroit.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 858
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This came across to me as a positive article. And I am a Detroiter.
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Iheartthed
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Post Number: 1348
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

News Flash: Detroit ISN'T up to the standards of Chicago. MANY more nightlife options in Chicago (duh!).

Chicago is no New York yet NY pubs don't feel the need to bash Chicago like that...
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Tetsua
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Post Number: 1305
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Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I agree. I don't know why these writers feel the need to bash Detroit all the time. It is as if bashing Detroit makes them feel better about themselves and their city.



It's not just other major cities that do this though. It's the same thing that the residents in the burbs of Metro Detroit have been doing for years.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Post Number: 861
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Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Meh, Tetsua, I always bash on the burbs. I think there's always the need to piss on someone. When I lived in Seattle, Seattle residents pissed on Tacoma. Tacoma pissed on Spokane. Here, everyone wants to piss on Detroit, but it really isn't hard to piss on 95% of the suburbs. I won't name any here because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. :-)
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Tetsua
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Post Number: 1306
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Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the need to piss on someone, is one of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. :-)
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Fury13
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Post Number: 1996
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Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Chicago is no New York yet NY pubs don't feel the need to bash Chicago like that..."

Right, NYC just is oblivious to the fact that Chicago even exists. Native NYCers don't even consider Chicago in the same league as NYC (and it isn't, really... just as Detroit is not in the same league as Chicago).

After all, the Big Apple is "all that."
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Ticub
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Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw this article on the flight home this morning while looking over my receipts for food, souvenirs, etc.
Chicago's 9% tax is really a killer.
As always, had a great time.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1433
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Temp. thread jack:

Does Chicago have a county and city tax on top of the state one?
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Detroit313
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Post Number: 447
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Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ya know, that's what makes New York amazing.

if Chicago points its nose up to Detroit then so be it, but New York doesn't care either way.

New Yorkers, true New Yorkers don't point there noses up to anyone, they know Chicago has its good and bad, they know Detroit has its good and bad.

<313>
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Focusonthed
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Post Number: 1244
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlottepaul: Yes.
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Yelloweyes
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Post Number: 171
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the fact that the article talked up Detroit as a destination and not one word about Casino's. (I feel this is a good thing)
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Noggin
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Username: Noggin

Post Number: 101
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its like the MSU crowd is always whining about U of M. Does the the University of Michigan crowd even acknowledge MSU exists? I don't think so.
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Jtw
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Post Number: 149
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Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you guys are really something else. a nice article shows up in the Tribune about the finer points of downtown detroit, and you're all bitching.

what could they have written that you wouldn't complain about?
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Charlottepaul
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Post Number: 1439
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that the way Elsuperbob put the first line is better: "Detroit is in a rough patch right now but it hasn't affected the spirits of its citizens and the continued improvement the city is seeing overall."
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Dds
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Post Number: 320
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Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Um, Jtw, not to bitch, but you didn't capitalize "Detroit" in your post. I'm offended.

(Message edited by dds on August 13, 2007)
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Rb336
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Post Number: 1172
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Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit not up to chicago standards --

more theater here or chicago? here
bars? who knows, really

chicago not up to NYC standards? of course!!!

lets forget that one lame opening paragraph, this was a very positive article from a city that loves to beat up on detroit in order to assuage its own inate inferiority complex
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Jtw
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Post Number: 151
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Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

dds, sarcasm noted - but before i really get flamed for that, i'll apologize to everyone else for the lack of capitalization!
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Dds
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Post Number: 321
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Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jtw: It's too late. I'm sure the watchdogs are gathering the troops.
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Ticub
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Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does Chicago have a county and city tax on top of the state one?

I don't think so, but I do know that a restaurant bill of $109.25, the taxes were $11.20.
It appears that there is a food tax as well as the 9%.
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Rb336
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Post Number: 1173
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Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think there is an additional city sales tax -- I recall reading about retail flight connected to that

was anyone able to connect to the "how well do you know detroit?" quiz?
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Miketoronto
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Post Number: 612
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the article was pretty good. It is saying to check out Detroit.

As I have said before, even Toronto's local newspapers have had some articles lately about all the great things to do in Detroit and how it is coming back.

So overall Detroit is getting good press now.
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Focusonthed
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Post Number: 1245
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Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Illinois' sales tax is 6.25% I think. Most of the Chicago collar counties are from there to 8.75%. Cook County adds a 1.5% tax (bringing the base rate to 7.75%), and most municipalities have some sort of city tax as well. The City of Chicago goes to 9%. Some "fast food" type items are taxed at 11% I believe.

Most people don't really care about it as much here, because at least that tax goes to something (a portion in the city and the counties goes directly to the RTA). Also, the near suburbs aren't stupid--when Chicago went to 9%, they slotted theirs right underneath. To most of us in the city though, it's not worth traveling to the burbs to save $5.

And no offense, but more theater in Detroit than Chicago? I don't think so. The Fox is much, MUCH larger than anything in Chicago--but that's about it.
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Detroit313
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Post Number: 448
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Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^Focusonthed-

Yes the Fox is larger than any theatre in Chicago-

And yes Detroit has more theatre seats than any American city, second only to New York City.

Look it up.

<313>
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Ray
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Post Number: 974
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Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its funny, but whenever I host people from NY here in Detroit and (principally) Birmingham, the are always really postive and enthusiastic about the city.

Things like relatively low cost of housing, the ease of driving around, the beauty of the suburbs, and the accessibility of good public and private schools impress them.

Go figure.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1440
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Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"And no offense, but more theater in Detroit than Chicago? I don't think so. The Fox is much, MUCH larger than anything in Chicago--but that's about it."

Yes, Detroit has always had more theatre seats than Chicago, sorry!
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 1252
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 10:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That wasn't the statement. The statement was more theater, not more seats. I'm aware Detroit has more seats.
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Fury13
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Post Number: 1999
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Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More theatre seats in Detroit... more good theatre in Chicago.

More culture, period, in Chicago. The truth hurts (some people, anyway).

FocusontheD, have you been inside the Oriental/Ford Center?
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El_jimbo
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Post Number: 277
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 11:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Noggin,

MSU doesn't exist? Kinda like Michigan's basketball team, right?
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Motorcitydave
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Post Number: 66
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^So... what does that say for MSU losing to Michigan in basketball last season? ;)
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Gistok
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Post Number: 5103
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK if it's truth in Theatre's you want... it's truth in Theatre's you'll get.... (although this list is not complete)

Detroit's Largest Theatres:

Detroit Fox 5,174 seats (open)
Masonic Temple 4,404, seats (open)
Michigan Theatre 4,050 seats (parking structure)
Detroit Opera House 3,384 (down to 2,765 seats for Opera)
State Theatre 2,967 (down to 2,200 with a dance floor)
Orchestra Hall 2,286 seats
Fisher Theatre 2,089 seats
Music Hall 1,778 seats

Chicago

Uptown Theatre 4,381 seats (north side of Chicago, closed for 20 years)
Auditorium Theatre 4,100 seats open
Chicago Theatre 3,800 seats open
Chicago Oriental 2,900 seats open
Bismark Pavilion 1,500 seats open
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Chow
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Post Number: 404
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Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, lets count movie theaters as well, which would put Chicago well ahead.

Seriously folks, lets not get into Detroit-Chicago comparisons... but if we must at least be realistic.
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 456
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Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hear you Chow,

But if you must count movie theatres, We should count all of Metro Detroit, and all of Chicagoland.

That would be fair since it is easier to demo first-run movie houses than the palaces of yesterday!

G- you forgot the Gem/Century
<313>
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Gistok
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Post Number: 5104
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Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Gem only has 453 and Century only 200 seats, way down on the list.... the 1585 seat Masonic Scottish Rite Theatre, 1500 seat Majestic, 1200 seat DIA Theatre and 1200 seat Bonstelle are way ahead of it. And then there's the closed 2070 seat UA and closed 1488 seat Adams.

(Message edited by Gistok on August 14, 2007)
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Focusonthed
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Post Number: 1255
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Holy crap Gistok, you missed a couple Broadway theaters in Chicago. LaSalle Bank, Goodman, Cadillac Palace. Then we should really count things like Second City and Steppenwolf. Briar St. Theater, where Blue Man Group has been for like a decade, literally.

Anyways...

Fury13, yes, I saw Ragtime at the Oriental when it first reopened in the 1990s.
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Gistok
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Post Number: 5105
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I said that the list was not complete...

I only listed the larger ones. Chicago lost so many VERY WONDERFUL neighborhood theatres that really put Detroit's neighborhood theatres to shame. But the downtown palaces were a different matter. One really has to say that they were pretty much equal. But due to skyrocketting land costs in Chicago (versus the stagnation in Detroit), many of the best of Chicago's theatres did not survive.

Some of Chicago's greatest losses were the Chicago Paradise, the Tivoli, the Marbro, the Granada, the Southtown, the Nortown, the Roosevelt, the United Artists... the list goes on and on.

The Chicago Oriental is pretty much a 3/5 scale of the Detroit Fox, design and opulence wise.

Ironically while Chicago theatre architects C.W. & George L. Rapp's (Rapp & Rapp) favorite theatre was the Chicago... a recent internet poll of theatre buffs seemed to prefer the opulence of the Michigan, now sadly half gone.
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Gistok
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Post Number: 5106
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When it came to neighborhood theatres, no theatre in the USA could compare on the outside to the magnificence of the Chicago Paradise (on the west side) a French Second Empire "Tour de Force", sadly gone today!





When Paramount-Publix Theatre Chain head Barney Balaban came to visit it in 1954... he said "rip it down".
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Tomoh
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Post Number: 310
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe there's more of certain things in Chicago than Detroit (there is) but to say the two aren't even in the same league? Those kinds of statements (denying their commonalities with Detroit from Chicagoans), just like when they pretend this city is New York, leave me shaking my head. Just like when New Yorkers tell you that you're in the center of the universe.

(Message edited by Tomoh on August 15, 2007)
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Jjw
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Post Number: 403
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 6:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love it when local folks express pride for their towns. But, when people from Detroit get into this "mine is bigger than yours" mentality when comparing their town with Chicago, it is an automatic loss. The progress occuring in Detroit of late is wonderful and it is being recognized, yes, even by Chicago writers. But, he would be doing his targeted audience a disservice to say, "Hey, go visit Detroit--It is just like Chicago". Walking along the waterfront in both towns is a very awaking experience.
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Citylover
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Post Number: 2561
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What this thread shows is that there are some genuine nipple sucking babies on this forum_ The only people that should or could be upset are those restaurant owners and club owners(cliff bells, town pump,et,al) that did not get mentioned in the piece.
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Michmeister
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Post Number: 221
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good article, with a "tell it like it is" opener.

You can`t mention all of the establishments. All the better for the visitors to come and notice that they haven`t budgeted enough time for the visit because there is so much more to do than expected, that will bring them back for a second stay, and will spread the word.

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