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Archive through August 15, 2007Urbanoutdoors30 08-15-07  11:55 pm
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Pmb
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Username: Pmb

Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is correct to say that the Conservancy plan does not have strong neighborhood support, from my perspective simply because there are so many questions. However, the Conservancy has been in the neighborhood working with the residents and local business. In fact, it is a neighborhood-based organization. The Harwell group is coming in from a very different perspective, and is not at all community based. His group was invited to sit at the Conservancy board and he has not responded. We don't need white horse heroes; we need people who can work with other people and build something for an entire community and city.

My other issue is with a 10,000 seat stadium. Who is going to pay that kind of money to play there?(WSU?, EMU? with their financial constraints?) And if it becomes a concert venue it will not be advantageous for baseball as it will wear down the field. The conservancy plan keeps Baseball on the corner, plus opens the field to the general public. ANYONE can play there. Yes, it is smaller and less grandios, but more real. Last minute plans like this from agents without local interest make me VERY nervous considering Detroit's recent history. Where have these guys been for the past 10 years? And what do they gain from this project? These questions need to be asked and so far I have yet to hear adequate answers.
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Jt1
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Post Number: 9829
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pmb - Your input is what is needed. It seems to me that the people that are behind these plans to somehow maintain a 10K seat stadium have no ties or concerns for the community.

Corktown is improving on its own but people with interest in nothing more than nostalgia seem to ignore that fact.

Harwell's plan will be nothing more than talk.
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Usnsubvet77
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Username: Usnsubvet77

Post Number: 21
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do not understand the city getting in a twist of the supposed "blight" that the old Tig Stadium is causing.
Why not at least keep up the buildings and locations that have some nostalgic value for Detroit. At least for the potential for revitalization in the future. Instead, put together an aggressive plan to get some of these auto companies and other industries to knock down their vacant and dilapidated factories that will not EVER do anything viable for the city.
Knocking down Tiger Stadium just seems like a ridiculous target disguised under the banner of "urban development".
Are there no other eye sore buildings in Detroit causing blight or preventing business and migration back to the city?
I am truly confused.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9831
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I do not understand the city getting in a twist of the supposed "blight" that the old Tig Stadium is causing.



Do you live in or near Corktown. Do you drive by the expanse of empty parking lots everyday?

The city is trying to move forward to help improve a strong area.

quote:

Knocking down Tiger Stadium just seems like a ridiculous target disguised under the banner of "urban development".
Are there no other eye sore buildings in Detroit causing blight or preventing business and migration back to the city?
I am truly confused.



Again, look at the relative strength of neighborhoods and potnetial. It's not that confusing. People in Corktown are working to improve a solid neighborhood. Keeping up a stadium that is preventing development/growth in the neighborhood is a major problem.

I know some people want to be able to drive their kids by there once a year but that doesn't mean squat to the people that live there and are making it a better place.

There really is nothing about it that should cause confusion if you spend a second thinking about the community and not nostalgia.
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Xd_brklyn
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Username: Xd_brklyn

Post Number: 280
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You have to keep in mind there is an out-of-state interest in Tiger Stadium as well. It is something I wouldn't discount for city's image as well as the state's. Tiger Stadium is one Detroit landmark that transcends the city's history as it involves baseball fans around the country. And not every city gets such a landmark. Personally, I can't think of a landmark in either Cleveland or Minneapolis that comes to close the national recognition of Tiger Stadium.

I have no idea of Ernie Harwell's plan or the odds of it obtaining financing, but I hope it is sensitive to the Corktown neighborhood. You have an historical building and an enjoyable neighborhood and you have Detroit's old nemesis -- parking lots. It is a dilemma, but if it is done intelligently and the funding is there to preserve both it will be a big plus for the city.
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Supergay
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Username: Supergay

Post Number: 73
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Once that building is gone people will move on quickly. Sure, people will talk about it, but where is the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the Hudson's building now? Long gone.

quote:

Im sure Chase would definitely go for the gay theme.



It's as feasible as the nostalgia theme. Chase is really gonna say yes to plan with no developer and a bunch of proposed museums and surplus stadium space as the linchpin. It's just another idea which is, frankly, nearly as evolved as the Harwell plan, and I put it together in an hour. If I plan a meeting with my bank to discuss financing I guess I'm about as far as they are.

Maybe further, where's their rendering??
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Xd_brklyn
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Username: Xd_brklyn

Post Number: 281
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, isn't that Detroit's problem, people "moving on" and out and not looking back? Of course, Ernie's plan is a long shot, but why not let him do his thing? Is the population so cynical no one is allowed to go with their notions?

By the way, if the funding or smart design wasn't there to preserve both the park and the neighborhood, I would favor the Corktown plan over Ernie's. This whole issue has brought back for me some unpleasant memories of Detroit's limitations, so I guess it's just best to acknowledge them. Then on the other hand, if things can be worked out best to everyone's advantage, I will gladly be amazed.
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Drm
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Username: Drm

Post Number: 1131
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The corktown meeting tonight was interesting, The conservancy is saying that they will be there own developer for their portion of development and save 300 seats and have their offices above the seats as well as maybe GCDC.

Urbanoutdoors, Jeff Wattrick from the Conservancy said 1000 seats. Not sure where you come up with 300.
quote:

Also there may be a small museum for the stadium itself behind the seats at the corner of Michigan and Cochrane.

There will be a museum if people stop paying attention to Ruffner/Spicer (with Harwell as their public face) and support the Conservancy's efforts, especially in regards to fund raising. As has been stated before, the amount of the stadium that can be preserved by the Conservancy is directly related to how much money they can raise.
quote:

The rest of the development still has no funding or developer but the stadium would be razed without it. It was interesting but still no guarantees on anything.

I'd say the Conservancy's plans are more guaranteed than any of the fantasyland stuff that has been proposed to-date.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9832
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Is the population so cynical no one is allowed to go with their notions?



When someone sits around for 7-8 years then comes in as a 'hero' at the twelfth hour I think that we have the right to be cynics. Nobody cared until the city decided to move forward now it is the city's and citizens fault for lacking vision. That is a ridiculous argument.
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Xd_brklyn
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Username: Xd_brklyn

Post Number: 282
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To just review this scenario--

As the stadium belongs to the City of Detroit, they are responsible for making all the calls on the park's future. There were numerous proposals submitted early on. The original Corktown plan I believe was among them. For years, the city made no comment on any of the plans. Why? Because, as ItsJeff theorized, they were looking to sell the site to a big box retailer like a Wal-Mart or Ikea. After this didn't happen, they went with the Corktown plan. And then after that fell through, they then announced something like none of the plans were feasible except demolition. Ernie & Company did not get involved until now because the city was late in the game upon making their decisions public.

Again, as many have said, this process should have been started much earlier by the city. There would than have been still some of the money left that was set aside for the re-use and the stadium would be in better shape for any other use.

Secondly, I thought Ernie was working with Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy, which was a group of the Corktown group. Wasn't he asked to be on their board? Isn't Harwell's plan was to be an addition to Conservancy's, not something inoperable with it? If you want to volunteer to help the Conservancy, you send your email to Jeff Wattrick as his email has been the only one publicly announced. There's been no contact info made public for either Spicer or Harwell to my knowledge. So when I read Ernie Harwell say "People are offering to help everyday" I have to think he's getting those emails from Jeff Wattrick, correct?

Yes, saying "the population is cynical" is ridiculous because it is painting with a broom. Usually, I look to avoid such nonsense but that one got by me.

(Message edited by xD_brklyn on August 16, 2007)
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Pmb
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Username: Pmb

Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Xd - The Harwell group (as DRM noted, really the Spicer group) has turned down, by not responding, to join the Conservancy. Councilwoman Cockrel made the suggestion at a public council meeting. The Conservancy followed up, and no response has been received. Spicer, as I understand, has been known for ignoring the residents' needs and input. Perhaps in the future I will be proven wrong on that, but so far....

FYI, the Corktown plan (now the DEGC, or city plan) has not fallen through, but is being challenged by the Harwell plan.
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Xd_brklyn
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Username: Xd_brklyn

Post Number: 283
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pmb, thanks for clearing that up, but sorry to hear that development. Was wishing for the best from all parties.
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Harpernottingham
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Username: Harpernottingham

Post Number: 251
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spicer is the wild card in all this.
He wants to do things on his terms and, as such, is not cooperating with the Conservancy.

I think that's unfortunate.
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Histeric
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Username: Histeric

Post Number: 792
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a founding member of the Conservancy, a long time resident of the community, a long time proponent of implementing the recommendations of the original stakeholder's meetings and the individual who spent six years promoting the Corktown plan currently supported by the Mayor's office, DEGC and City Council, I have to say that I am deeply offended by the Johnny Come Latelies and the Broken Records who are second guessing the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy efforts. As mentioned, the Ernie Harwell group was invited to join an eight year effort to save a portion of Tiger Stadium, and become a founding Board Member of the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy, the ONLY group operating under a legal agreement with the city to save as much as can be accounted for by legitimate fundraising/financing. Instead, Gary Spicer appears to be using Mr. Harwell's notoriety to stunt/slow/kill the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy efforts. One wonders where all the Illitch conspiracy buffs are as it relates to this most current obvious attempt to erase history and schill for the bad guys. Instead, we have UrbanOutdoors, a less than six month resident of my community, son of a founding member of the Tiger Stadium Fan Club, actually lying about very important, specific numbers of seats and schilling for....he knows not what for. What a damned mess.

But at the end of the day, mark my words that the only legitimate possibility to honor both the history of The Corner and the future of the Corktown community is embodied in the mission of the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy. Any other attempts, at this late hour, will only ensure that little to no part of the stadium remains at the end of the day. That would be sad indeed and a self fulfilling prophecy of the folks like Tiger Stadium Fan Club and Son, who are still indignant about building Commercial Park, while the Corktown community can't afford such nostalgia and must focus on the future. I implore the rest of you to join us in dropping the drama for pragmatism and moving our community forward.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 524
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am sorry but I have lived here for 2 years and am actually in support of your plan rather than seeing the stadium site sit as vacant land. You should not jump to conclusions before you make outlandish comments about how I am trying to thwart attempts. I have my own ideas and ideals that are influence by my upbringing yes, but my issue is more with funding than anything I am in support of what ever corktown wants. I will voice my own views but do not expect everyone to agree. I would much rather see baseball on the site than a walmart or another abandoned lot.

I am sorry for posting that it was 300 seats that is what I thought I heard watrick say as did others who were there, I heard later that it will be 1000 and am sorry it was not my intent to post false information. I am not out to be your enemy and feel it is sad that you feel I am out to be yours.

The city cannot afford to demolish and would be perfectly happy with your plan if there were developers in place and that they would pay for there own portion of demolition. I just do not feel it makes sense to demolish without funding and developer. I am just a concerned citizen and am not out to just stir up trouble. Go ahead bash me that is fine, I will still support what I feel is in the best interest of the community, a plan with funding and a developer. The Conservancy has my support, if it didn't I would have only been trying to raise hell at the community meeting, instead I sat there and just asked questions that would help inform the community. It will only get my full support if the entire site has funding and a developer which I think you would even agree would make for a much better situation.

(Message edited by Urbanoutdoors on August 18, 2007)

(Message edited by Urbanoutdoors on August 18, 2007)
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Planner_727
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Username: Planner_727

Post Number: 135
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SOme concerns raised for CT are substantial. A 10000 seat stadium is a big minor league stadium, and could support a minor and other events. Three communities in metro detroit have had viable minor league plans turned down due to NIMBY. The key to any development on this site (epecially if it has major event space) is to redevelop the four blocks west of the stadium (save MI frontage) as a large parking deck (4-5000 spaces min) with residential and commercial wrapped around. A covered walk and reasonable price of <=$10 will push local lots out, making them more valuable as infill/redevelopment. A viable development for the stadium and these four blocks, IMHO, is critical to the potential of Corktown in the future as a walkable neighborhood with sustainable commercial district. Go Ernie!
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Histeric
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Username: Histeric

Post Number: 796
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not Tim McKay. Tim lives on Sixth. I live on Leverette.

Unfortunately, your idea of how development is done is influenced by the idealism of your father, which I respect until it become obstructionism to the future of the community in which I am raising my children. There isn't a developer in the country who would volunteer to take the PR hit for tearing down the majority of TS. That sad task falls to the owner, prior to a RFP. It is called a predevelopment activity, packaging the land for redevelopment, and is STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE. If the land was awarded without another open RFP, folks would cry foul, including City Council. The process being followed is how it is done properly...regardless of your idealism and naivety.

At the end of the day, the Tigers are NOT coming back. Let your father make his points in academic journals discussing public financing for sports stadiums. I will agree with all his points. Until we arrive at a DONE DEAL and the future of my neighborhood. Then the idealism and the bloviating are a threat to my family's future and I would say get over it, get on with it. No more time for intellectual masturbation. There is REAL WORK to be done.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 526
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Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 1:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a community member also on Leverette have my own opinions and as a community member will voice them. I am just concerned, looking at the memorandum of understanding that what happens if the deadlines aren't met? What direction would the city take and would it favor corktown? So therefore I hope the Conservacy can make all the deadlines, but I will say with so many question marks, I will remain skeptical myself. I would love to sit down and have a drink so we could discuss this in a civilized manner and maybe you could answer some of my questions and understand where I am coming from instead of taking a route of mudslinging.
Email me @ Scoobysnax99@hotmail.com I look forward to hearing from you.

(Message edited by Urbanoutdoors on August 18, 2007)
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Histeric
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Username: Histeric

Post Number: 798
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Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am happy to have a drink...as my intimates will tell you...on any occasion. Must be the Scot in me. But we have to start from a place of truth...like your father is NOT getting out of the way. He is still good for a negative quote to the local papers. He spoke at the recent council meetings if I am not mistaken. Dow keeps him up to speed as it were and the two of them comiserate and ultimately, piss on Corktown. I left my Corktown job of six years in large part due to the burnout that comes with having to repeat yourself over and over and ultimately...waste ones sweetness on the desert air. Your father, Bill Dow and their ilk are the desert air when it comes to Tiger Stadium and the future of Corktown. They are so dogmatic for one that they have no room left to see clear enough to care for the other. So be it. They want to remain part of a wider, national conversation about public financing, etc. I prefer to focus locally in a pragmatic, progressive manner.

Do you believe an MOU with no deadlines or benchmarks would be a better way to deal with the issue. Should the question remain open indefinitely? The MOU gave us a solid year to get things in order which although a short order, was doable. Instead of assisting in achieving our ambitious benchmarks, Spicer and Co have stolen three additional months of thunder to our fundraising...which won't be able to begin in earnest til the press and the Dows and the Rashids and the Rileys and the Avantis cease from planting seeds of doubt where and when they can. One must really ask if they have been cooped by the Illitch family to ensure that every last memory is erased with their all or nothing attitude.
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Histeric
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Username: Histeric

Post Number: 799
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Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 1:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am walking up to Slows to pay a tab I left open from earlier. Just remembered. Feel free to join me. Detroit Blowpipe and Sheetmetal T shirt from the Unc, designed by Jerome Ferrrrretttti.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 527
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 7:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"One must really ask if they have been cooped by the Illitch family to ensure that every last memory is erased with their all or nothing attitude."


That would get a huge chuckle at the christmas party, You can't be serious.



"piss on Corktown"

Also that does not make any sense in that my father has many friends in Corktown which do not agree with the conservancy's plan without funding or developer.

I don't know how you can call this "my Nieghborhood"(who made you the official spokes person of corktown? What exactly qualifies you for that position?)

Sorry didn't get that drink we will have to meet up soon so that you can stop mudslinging based on your own opinions it really does not benefit the conservancy.

(Message edited by Urbanoutdoors on August 18, 2007)
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Harpernottingham
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Username: Harpernottingham

Post Number: 252
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alright, I think it's about time for a little meeting of the five families. I'm inviting the Tattaglias, the Barzinis, the Corleones, Solozzo, Abe Vigoda, Talia Shire ... everybody.

How often, if ever, have all the interested parties/players in this Tiger Stadium issue been in the same room at the same time? Probably not in a long time, if ever.

If any of you are interested in such a meeting, if indeed it's worth the effort at this stage, I'd be glad to help arrange it.

Obviously, Spicer and Ilitch and Harwell wouldn't join us, but what about people like Dow and Martin and Rashid and Wattrick and Riley and Beer, et al.?

I think the Gaelic League would be a fine place to sit down for a few drinks one night soon, if any of you are truly interested. We don't have to solve anything or agree on anything or rehash anything.

But perhaps we can clear the air a little bit, let bygones be bygones (or not), and help Corktown move forward once and for all.

I'll contact you all via e-mail.
First round of drinks is on me.

--Dave Mesrey
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Factotum
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Username: Factotum

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A few days ago, "Histeric" took issue with the fact that Ernie Harwell, assisted by his agent and friend Gary Spicer, has taken a path in regard to Tiger Stadium that is separate from that of the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy.

While it would be ideal if all who see value in Tiger Stadium were on the same page, this is not a realistic scenario. There are many reasons for desiring the preservation –- or the demolition –- of the old park. The Conservancy has one agenda, Ernie Harwell quite another.

Even without being the "insider" that Histeric explains that he is, I am well aware that the Conservancy's approach is viewed as tokenism in many quarters. I also understand that the Conservancy must deal with proscriptions that have little or nothing to do with funding issues. Certain actions taken by the Conservancy strongly underscore these perspectives.

I expect (but do not know) that Mr. Harwell wants to ensure that whatever is done with the Corner is more comprehensive than the Conservancy's vision allows and thus can result in a more significant gift to posterity. In his choice to "go it alone," I suspect that he also may have been concerned that the Conservancy's wish to ally itself with him was motivated as much by a desire to use his name as to take advantage of his knowledge and active involvement.

I am particularly annoyed by Histeric's direct attack on Gary Spicer for supposedly using Mr. Harwell’s notoriety as a weapon against the Conservancy. Mr. Spicer needs no defense from me or anyone else, but in this context, an attack on him is a cheap and safe (albeit thinly disguised) way to attack Mr. Harwell -- a man who is unlikely to allow himself to be "used" by anybody.

If, in fact, Histeric and the Conservancy have taken the historic importance of Tiger Stadium and need for its preservation to heart, instead of sniping at Ernie Harwell and his supporters and bandying their own credentials about, the Conservancy might be better advised to step aside. If they care about their own cause, they should recognize that it will be best served by allowing a man who has greater knowledge of the ball park than theirs, greater access to experts in sport, history, commerce, and entertainment than theirs -- not to mention infinitely greater fund raising capability than theirs -- to go forward. It is incumbent upon the Conservancy to support Ernie Harwell, not the other way around.
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Dialh4hipster
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Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 2141
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The problem is that the Harwell/Spicer plan is not economically viable, which I think will become apparent over the coming weeks.

In addition, by coming in at the last minute as a "better" savior of the park than the Conservancy, they undermine the Conservancy's goodwill and fundraising abilities. When the Harwell/Spicer plan proves financially unfeasable - and it will - the original and only remaining group will have some PR work to do just to get back where they were before Harwell entered the picture.

Since the amount of the ballpark that can be saved is directly related the amount of money the Conservancy can raise, the Harwell/Spicer plan may in the long run end up harming Tiger Stadium preservation rather than helping it.

I agree that it is overall a well-intentioned effort and probably not tied to anyone's personal agenda or ego. I agree that Harwell has access to experts in sports, history and entertainment if that is an agenda that seems compatible with that otherwise residential neighborhood.

I disagree that Harwell has "infinitely" greater fundraising capabilities than a non-profit board created explicitly with the purpose of raising money. Believing otherwise just shows a lack of experience in the fundraising world.

And frankly, I think everyone needs to keep in mind that in the Harwell/Spicer plan, Tigers Stadium is actually not being preserved. It is being scaled back to the size of Navin Field, a ballpark that holds a special place in the hearts of very few people alive today.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 9853
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Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

the Conservancy might be better advised to step aside. If they care about their own cause, they should recognize that it will be best served by allowing a man who has greater knowledge of the ball park than theirs, greater access to experts in sport, history, commerce, and entertainment than theirs -- not to mention infinitely greater fund raising capability than theirs -- to go forward. It is incumbent upon the Conservancy to support Ernie Harwell, not the other way around.



Here is one thing that so many people like yourslef overlook. The people speaking on behalf of the conservancy in this thread are members of the community. Consider that there are people making their lives in the area, raising families in the neighborhood, etc.

To those families this isn't a plan to keep a novelty alive but for the betterment of their community and their lives.

Here is a novel concept. How about the people that post from here on out list the city they live in as well as the cities of the parties they are speaking on behlf of.

Let's consider the quality of life of those in the neighborhood, not the bs nostalgia of people that live nowhere near 'The corner'

I live about 2-3 miles from there.
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Histeric
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Username: Histeric

Post Number: 800
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Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With all due respect to Mr. Harwell, I don't care how much knowledge he has about the Tigers, Tiger Stadium, baseball or anything else unless he is willing to work WITH the community. The Tigers organization abandoned its interests at Michigan and Trumbull and didn't even clean up their own mess on the way out. We have been living with that irresponsible decision for almost a decade.

What I really want to know is how much he knows or cares about the Corktown community. Given the fact that neither Mr. Harwell, or Mr. Spicer have ever approached our community to determine what the community will or will not support, I think we have our answer. Action speaking louder than words and all that.

And thanks to the advice from the newbie (aka Lou Beer is my guess) but you know how Corktown feels about your advice. I know you all would prefer that Corktown just go away and shut up...kind of how we feel about you...but it ain't going to happen. Corktown has been under assault for fifty years, since the ill advised policies of Urban Renewal almost wiped the neighborhood out. The community wasn't silent then and you can be sure, never will be. We have been working on Tiger Stadium for eight years, have supported several developers who couldn't make it through the city politics, and continue to be proactive in our search for a resolution. Where has Harwell and Spicer been for all that time? The arrogance of people like Beer and now Spicer will never cease to amaze a little grass roots guy like me.

And Urbanoutdoors. Figure out where you stand cuz you keep changing your position. You support the conservancy, you don't support the conservancy, you live in Corktown, you are moving out of Corktown, you speak for the many (never named of course) yet you speak only for yourself. Once again, Johnny come Lately, we have been having community meetings about this issue for over eight years and you have been at a recent few as far as I can tell. I don't think two community organizations, with over fifty years of committment to preserving and improving Corktown, need any help communicating the community position representing the VAST MAJORITY of the residents. Thanks for the thought though.

Yours Truly,
Histerical Preservationist

(Message edited by histeric on August 19, 2007)
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Histeric
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Post Number: 801
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okey Dokey Mr. Rashid.

Just remember that the Conservancy's efforts are founded on and informed by:

The original stakeholders meetings of 1999

The ongoing votes of the Corktown Citizens District Council over seven years

The ongoing votes of the Greater Corktown Development Corporation over eight years

The vote of a special project Citizens District Council formed this year to confirm support

The support of the Corktown Residents Council

The support of the Corktown Business Association

ETC., ETC., ETC.

To even suggest that the Conservancy hasn't sought and received consensus from the neighborhood is at best, disingenuous...in spite of your particular position or lack thereof.
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Histeric
Member
Username: Histeric

Post Number: 802
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, where did that Urbanoutdoors post go? Now I sound like I am talking to myself.

Lowell, I don't mind being outed by the kid. As you know, I have been on the site for almost eight years and outed myself at least a few times. I am no longer staff, just a volunteer who can freely express his opinion.
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Factotum
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Username: Factotum

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lou Beer?

No.
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 4081
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Neither I nor any moderators have intervened on this thread. As long as there is there is no name-calling posts remain. Authors of posts have the right to amend or delete their posts up to 24 hours after creation, so if anything is missing or altered it by that action.

All said, I share the perplexity as to why Ernie Harwell would choose to get suddenly concerned and involved in a process that has been so long in the works, so far advanced and supported by the local community.

No one would like the Tigers to be playing at the Corner more than I who supported efforts of the Tiger Stadium fan club on several occasions.

But time has moved on, the Tigers aren't coming back and the plans of the Conservancy make sense to me. Rebuilding the site according to their plans would, IMO, be a great improvement in the further adding to the vibrancy emanating from the reviving Corktown community. It is my hope that Mr. Harwell would join that effort nad not hinder it.
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Innercitydoc
Member
Username: Innercitydoc

Post Number: 54
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070821/U PDATE/708210436
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Tigersfan9
Member
Username: Tigersfan9

Post Number: 116
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Harwell's plan to save Tiger Stadium growing
August 21, 2007
By JOHN GALLAGHER
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER

Hall of Fame announcer Ernie Harwell’s plan to save Tiger Stadium is daily growing in size and scope, and now includes holding boxing matches and amateur football as well as baseball at the site.

Speaking to the Free Press this afternoon, Harwell and his attorney, Gary Spicer, also raised the possibility of adding about 10 acres of nearby surface parking lots to their redevelopment plan for the ballpark.


Advertisement

Those ideas come in addition to those already mentioned by the duo, including their hopes to hold gospel music concerts there and to operate various museums at a revamped Tiger Stadium – one for Detroit-oriented music, another to house some of Harwell’s huge collection of baseball memorabilia.

Asked today why, at age 89, he wants to spend so much time on the project, Harwell grew philosophical.


“In America, we have a tendency to knock down anything that’s over 30 years old and make a parking lot out of it,” Harwell said. “Whereas in Europe they preserve all these beautiful buildings and structures that have a history. I sort of like the European approach.”


Their efforts face a high bar of skepticism from city development officials, who plan to demolish all or most of the stadium later this year unless Harwell and Spicer come up with sometime solid by Oct. 1.


George Jackson, president of the Detroit Economic Growth Corp., on Monday had dismissed the Harwell and Spicer effort as a “PR gimmick.” He added, “Our decision will not be based on a public relations campaign. It’s going to be based on financial substance, period.”


Contact JOHN GALLAGHER at 313-222-5173 or gallagher@freepress.com.

Find this article at:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070821/NEW S01/70821061
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 5154
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Without getting involved in the Conservacy versus Harwell fray, I do think one thing should be enforced by the city.... NO MORE PARKING IN EMPTY CORKTOWN RESIDENTIAL LOTS for any future events at whatever form the corner of Michigan & Trumbull takes on.

That neighborhood was blighted for decades by Tiger parking, and Corktown should be healed (via residential infill) of all those gap-tooth empty weed strewn lots.
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Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 2359
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 2:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Enough already, Ernie. I can see preserving part of the stadium to use as a sports museum(not just baseball). I can see preserving the field. However, I can't see boxing matches and gospel concerts.

Preserve the field and use some of the old seats to create a seating area for spectators. What remains will be used for retail and residential.

BTW, what part of the actual stadium would you folks want to see spared? My choice is the right field section with the overhang, between the foul line and the bleachers. Most unique part of Tiger Stadium in my opinion.

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