  Detroitman Member Username: Detroitman Post Number: 1073 Registered: 06-2004 |
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/M ETRO/708090418 | ||
Jiscodazz Member Username: Jiscodazz Post Number: 41 Registered: 02-2007 |
I think it's really good to see African Americans able to pursue their desire for better schools and safer streets. Unfortunately, I'm not sure they are welcome in the numbers that they're arriving in. I grew up in the suburbs and I've see how people think. Large groups of black people make most white people crazy. Hopefully minds will be opened and stereotypes will be changed, but I'm skeptical. Man do we have a long way to go. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 84 Registered: 06-2007 |
Theres no such thing as "white suburbs." There have been minorities in most for awhile. And theyre here to stay. Last time I was in downtown Birmingham there was a record number of blacks.West Bloomfield is a melting pot of jews, blacks and chaldeans. The last few times I've been in Roseville I saw more blacks than whites.Hispanics have branched out from Pontiac and into Waterford in Oakland county, and in Wayne county, from SW Detroit to northern downriver (Melvindale etc).I haven't bought into the whole "white suburbs" stereotype for a long time. Its the most flawed assumption. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 14 Registered: 08-2007 |
Do you really think the "record number" of African-Americans you saw walking in Birmingham were residents? How can you tell? Yes, our suburbs have diversified, but OC is still lily white for the most part. BTW, where are the stats for Washtenaw? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3533 Registered: 02-2005 |
More minorities in the suburbs? Yes. More integration? Not much. Similar to UM trying to allow more blacks and hispanics in during the race preference years, with the regime having little/no effect on getting these groups to mix. | ||
Waz Member Username: Waz Post Number: 145 Registered: 11-2006 |
People movin' out, people movin' in Why? Because of the color of their skin Run, run, run, but you sure can't hide | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 2257 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: Guess you have never been to Southfield, Oak Park, Farmington Hills, Troy, West Bloomfield etc. Even Novi seems to be getting more diversified lately. | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 129 Registered: 08-2006 |
i would've guessed macomb county was more diverse than oakland county wikipedia paints it like this... birmingham: 96.13% White, 0.91% African American roseville: 93.43% White, 2.60% African American west bloomfield twp: 84.25% White, 5.18% African American melvindale: 87.40% White, 5.26% African American pontiac: 39.09% White, 47.92% African American, Hispanic or Latino of any race were 12.76% of the population. waterford twp: 92.65% White, 2.89% African American oakland county: 82.75% White, 10.11% Black or African American wayne county: 51.70% White, 42.16% Black or African American macomb county: 92.66% White, 2.71% Black or African American washtenaw county 77.40% White, 12.29% Black or African American | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 37 Registered: 07-2007 |
Novi is 87% white which is still pretty white. The burbs are getting more diversified but at least in the 2000 census, OC was over 82% white. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N ovi%2C_Michigan#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O akland_County#Demographics | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1324 Registered: 04-2006 |
Another factor explaining decline in white population is migration of retirees to the sunbelt, Darga said. He said Michigan continues to send more students to colleges outside of the state and doesn't attract enough out-of-state students to offset that loss. "Michigan doesn't have a Harvard or a Notre Dame to attract people nationally," he said. Michigan has one of the most world renown universities in the world. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 15 Registered: 08-2007 |
Yes, Pam. I know those suburbs; I was referring to the stats chart in the article. OC is definitely more diverse than Livingston but still largely white. Are we talking personal observations or statistics? Just because we "see" a lot more diverse people shopping, driving, or walking around doesn't mean they live in those places. Oak Park and Southfield have been a haven for middle-class African-Americans for some time now. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1326 Registered: 04-2006 |
Are we talking personal observations or statistics? Just because we "see" a lot more diverse people shopping, driving, or walking around doesn't mean they live in those places. Pretty much. Obviously, people can't shop in Detroit so where else would they go to shop? | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 2258 Registered: 11-2005 |
There also seems to be a growing Asian community in Novi. What are the stats on that? (Nevermind, I see that is on the chart in the link) (Message edited by Pam on August 09, 2007) | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2539 Registered: 07-2004 |
One wonders how people like Darga get to the positions they do. Um is a better school than Notre Dame.Of course some may dispute that but the point is....well there are two points: Darga is a dumb ass for not knowing his job and UM is on par with Notre Dame and even Harvard in certain areas. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 2259 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: True but your original term of "lily white" seemed to deny the diversity that is there. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 16 Registered: 08-2007 |
Thanks, Novine, for the stats. I guess the true "test" is to look at and compare diversification over time. When a suburb has an historically significant number of any ethnic group that skews the idea that it is "becoming" more diverse when in reality it has been (comparably) for some time. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 17 Registered: 08-2007 |
Ok, Pam there are many shades of lily; I retract "lily white"- It sounds pejorative and besides it's a cliché. :-) | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 765 Registered: 05-2005 |
Who cares who lives where? People live where they want to/can afford to. I dont go around noticing people by their race, they are just people. Whats the big deal. As long as you guys keep making it a point to list who lives where, I guess it will continue to be a problem for you. | ||
Oakmangirl Member Username: Oakmangirl Post Number: 18 Registered: 08-2007 |
Cleo, I think we lost sight of the fact we want more people to live in Detroit. | ||
Erichp77 Member Username: Erichp77 Post Number: 249 Registered: 12-2003 |
I know Sterling Heights has become more diverse. When I walk or drive to work, it's not uncommon to see white and African American children playing or even skateboarding together. It's been like that for a long while now and you don't see For Sale signs popping up because of it, lol. Just a sign of the times! | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 404 Registered: 11-2006 |
It would be nice if it was that simple miss_cleo but it is alot more complex than how you speak about it. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2995 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Maybe because Northwest Michigan is bleach white??? Just a thought. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 2260 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: Because the Detroit area has been called one of the most segregated in the US. These statistics show that is changing. That is good news. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 766 Registered: 05-2005 |
Maybe because Northwest Michigan is bleach white??? Just a thought. ------------------------------ ------------------- But no one is stopping anyone from moving here. Its not anyones fault its that way.....is it? I dont stop people from moving here. So why should I feel its a bad thing? People who want to live here do. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 794 Registered: 11-2003 |
"I think we lost sight of the fact we want more people to live in Detroit." The Freep had an article on this topic in which a middle class African-American woman said she didn't want to buy a house in Detroit because of high taxes, poor city services and the dysfunctional school system. She bought a home in Eastpointe. This woman and other middle class people like her are the people Detroit needs to keep in the city. A white person in Royal Oak may not have a problem living next to someone in their city, but that doesn't mean they're going to be more willing to move to Detroit. As the middle-class continue to move out of Detroit these problems that are causing people to leave will only get worse, not better. You could say it's good news for the suburbs, but I don't see how it can be anything other than terrible news for the city of Detroit. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1328 Registered: 04-2006 |
"But no one is stopping anyone from moving here. Its not anyones fault its that way.....is it? I dont stop people from moving here. So why should I feel its a bad thing? People who want to live here do." Nobody said you should feel it's a bad thing. He's suggesting that you don't notice it because everybody you see from day to day are the same race. There is no other race to notice. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 767 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thats not true, there are Black,Asian,Native American and some other races of families that live here. Not alot granted, but more than none. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9759 Registered: 10-2003 |
2000 Census - Charlevoix 94.92% White 0.27% African American 2.84% Native American 0.20% Asian 0.43% from other races 1.34% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1.24% At 2994 people that breaks down to: 2842 White 8 African American 85 Native American 6 Asian 13 other To say there is any real level of diversity is a bit of a stretch. Not saying there is any intent to keep minorities out - just keeping the level of diversity in perspective. Also those numbers are from 2000 so they may be different now. | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 563 Registered: 06-2005 |
I'm sure I'll get relentlessly flamed on this board for saying so, but I for one have never really understood the increased value of racial diversity in a community. I'm not saying that I'm against integrated neighborhoods, but why exactly do so many consider a racially mixed neighborhood better than a segregated one? What are some of the benefits? Do they outweigh the possible conflicts that may arise? | ||
Southofeight Member Username: Southofeight Post Number: 102 Registered: 07-2005 |
Jesus, northern Michigan is as white at it gets. Any one trying to insinuate otherwise is full of shit. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 2264 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: Meeting people different from yourself and hopefully breaking down stereotypes and prejudice. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 768 Registered: 05-2005 |
Jesus, northern Michigan is as white at it gets. Any one trying to insinuate otherwise is full of shit. ------------------------------ -------------- well there isnt any sign keeping any one out is there? If it bothers you that there are too many white people living up here, then by all means gather up all your minority friends and move up here so it will be more diverse and make you happy. sheesh! | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1236 Registered: 02-2006 |
Shit, if the minorities show up in Charlevoix, we'll have to move to Canada! | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 769 Registered: 05-2005 |
so you think we moved here to get away from minorities? What a joke, We moved here for a stable job and a better life style. If no minorities live here, it is their fault..maybe they dont want to live this far North. That doesnt make this a bad place to live. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9767 Registered: 10-2003 |
Rarely will I side with Cleo but claiming that she moved to Charlevoix to be away from minorities is one hell of a stretch. I would prefer to see more diversity across the state but that doesn't change the fact that there are areas that completely lack diversity that are still nice areas to live. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1774 Registered: 01-2004 |
Now if we could just get diversity into Detroit and break up that solid ass majority ! pretty interesting to see the government definition of the various groups: "Racial/Ethnic Groups: The four racial/ethnic groups protected by Federal equal employment opportunity laws are Blacks, Hispanics, Asians or Pacific Islanders, and American Indians or Alaskan Natives. Racial/ethnic groups are defined by the Federal Government as follows:" White (not of Hispanic origin): Persons having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, North Africa, or the Middle East. Black (not of Hispanic origin): Persons having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa. Hispanic: Persons of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. Asian or Pacific Islander: Persons having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, the Indian Subcontinent, or the Pacific Islands. This area includes, for example, China, Japan, Korea, the Philippine Islands, and Samoa. American Indian or Alaskan Native: Persons having origins in any of the original peoples of North America and who maintain cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition. http://www.uri.edu/affirmative _action/definitions.html | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9769 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Plenty of homes for sale. Nobody is stopping anyone from moving in. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1237 Registered: 02-2006 |
Yeah, it was a joke. =) | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 1775 Registered: 01-2004 |
I wasnt joking. | ||
Number1 Member Username: Number1 Post Number: 13 Registered: 07-2007 |
Racism doesn't only occur in the suburbs. Some Detroit residents can be just as unwelcoming of diversity as people in the suburbs. Its a problem that sadly occurs on both sides of 8 mile. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1334 Registered: 04-2006 |
^How many black flight situations have you witnessed because a white family moved into a neighborhood? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1238 Registered: 07-2004 |
Didn't they used to call "integration" the period in between the first black family moving in and the last white family moving out? | ||
Number1 Member Username: Number1 Post Number: 14 Registered: 07-2007 |
Iheartthed I was referring to the use of racial politics that occurs in both the suburbs and Detroit. The fights between Detroit vs. Suburbs have often become Black vs. White. This has led some black people to believe that the suburbs are only for white people and has led some whites to believe that Detroit is only for black people. Some black people feel threatened when other ethnic groups move into the city, because they fear becoming a minority again and being discriminated against. Only a very small percentage of people on both sides feel this way, but that perception does exist. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1337 Registered: 04-2006 |
^I agree with the majority of that... but I personally think the majority group south of 8 Mile is a lot more receptive of diversifying their area than the one north of 8 Mile. Add to that the economic choke hold that the majority group north of 8 Mile has traditionally had on the region (and the country) and you see the reasons for the rapid and severe decay for the large city immediately south of 8 Mile. The majority group south of 8 Mile doesn't really have the power (economic or otherwise) to exert much influence on anything north of 8 Mile, whereas the reverse is not true at all. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 85 Registered: 06-2007 |
Ill totally agree that Northern Michigan is overwhelmingly white...But even Traverse City is getting into the 21st century slowly. My brother lived up there for a little bit. When I went up to visit, I saw a black youth skateboarding,and was a bit surprised.But my bro told me then that actually there is a section of town that has a visible black population. At roughly 16,000 people, it isnt that big a place. Granted, the block population is extremely small,theyre still making inroads. If I were black, Id still probably avoid a lot of the backwoods small towns up that way, but TC itself is pretty tolerant of just about anyone. | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 444 Registered: 11-2006 |
I see many integrated groups of young blacks and whites hanging out in Ferndale and Royal Oak. A part time substitute Royal Oak teacher told me he sees groups of blacks and whites hanging together in the hallway at the high school. Ferndale has several black owned businesses, neighborhoods are becoming increasingly diverse yet to be perfectly honest I have some of the same concerns many white Americans have about changing demographics. The race issue has two sides: some of the brothas and sistas bring their chips on their shoulders when they cross 8 mile. Middle class educated, and African immigrant blacks are probably percieved as less threatening than working poor blacks. I dont care who chooses to move the community I reside in as they are Americans in another part of their country just dont bring a racist hostile attitude, that is not the direction most Ferndale residents want to move toward. White Americans who see an influx of blacks into their communities are concerned about crime and unruly youth: they tend to perceive black-white relations in the context of whites are more often victims of racial animosity than vice versa. White suburbs tend to be conservative. Ferndale on the surface is progressive but but if you dig deep into the minds of longtime residents subconcious perceptions and realities are brought to the surface. Many white Ferndale residents at the same time realize that black Detroiters moving into suburban communities are simply looking for a better standard of liveing for their families. My brother just married his black girlfriend (shocker as he was as at one time a brutish brawling almost hardcore racist)when they started dating she stayed near Gunston off of Gratiot on the eastside of Detroit and now my brother and his wife and her children live in Royal Oak and her kids attend a decent school. When I was in interacial relationships I always felt more welcome in the suburbs than the city. Will Ferndale experience white flight? Probably, but not at the same rate as other cities. | ||
Jenniferl Member Username: Jenniferl Post Number: 390 Registered: 03-2004 |
A thought regarding blacks who shop/hang out in suburban downtowns like Birmingham and Royal Oak... Even if the black folks don't live in those suburbs, I still see their presence as a sign of progress. Less than ten years ago, blacks avoided many of these places because they kept getting hassled by the cops or treated like potential criminals every time they walked into a store. But now black folks and other minorities obviously feel more comfortable coming to the 'burbs. Otherwise, they wouldn't be there. And on the flip side, more suburban whites seem to be comfortable hanging out downtown Detroit. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6334 Registered: 02-2004 |
The ethnic change is coming. Blacks moved away from Detroit to suburbantopia. Whites have move away from suburbantopia to Ex-urbantopia. Hispanics and Asians and even Arabs moving left and right. Sounds like diversification to me. And they all want good schools, jobs, homes, community services and many more. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3551 Registered: 02-2005 |
And multicultural, often white inflow to the city, in gentrifying areas. Surprised you forgot that, Danny. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 1248 Registered: 09-2006 |
If I move back to Detroit the last place I will be caught is in the suburbs, I would rather live in another city first. |
