  Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 971 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20070808/OPINI ON01/708080311&theme=School-De troit-schools | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1786 Registered: 06-2006 |
excellent article | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 844 Registered: 01-2005 |
One hopes that a new school superintendant, even one with no experience running a major city school system, would bring something to the table which might lead to improving the whole mess. However, her decision to hold a "retreat" in Ohio for the Board and the Administration is just more of the same old bad judgment that's been the modus operandi of the DPS for years. Notwithstanding that the Detroit News this morning blessed the idea, holding such a meeting out-of-state is a transparent attempt to avoid the mandates of the Open Meetings Act. If it's so important, why not hold the meeting in Detroit in a closed session, and to hell with the Open Meeting Act; what's anyone going to do about it? The DPS is, and has been for years, doomed. It poses a major threat to any economic viability we now have, in downtown Detroit at least, and any hope for meaningful improvement of the City in the future. The Skillman Foundation, which apparently suggested the retreat and is paying for it, it part of the problem rather than an engine of meaningful reform. I believe that the hordes (75%) of young people who drop out of the system, and end up pumping out babies and ending up in jail, are a bigger threat to this area than al Quida is to the country. It's time to privatize "public" education in Detroit and turn the job over to properly funded charter schools, religious schools for those who want them, and for-profit corporate educators. Weed out the lousy teachers and double the pay of the remaining, effective ones. Good teachers, like everyone else, will follow the money. Nationally known and respected guys like Newt Gingrich, who have the guts to speak out publicly on the issue, do us a service, yet the dissemination of the facts will inevitable result in yet a further diminution of Detroit's status in the eyes of the world, undoing all of the positive PR and whatever meagre achievements we've accomplished. We deserve it. Do what it takes. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 325 Registered: 05-2004 |
Guys like Newt always want people to do what they say and not follow their example. He's a fine guy to listen to. Ever since he served his wife with divorce papers (while she was in the hospital with cancer), I have tuned him out. His kind of compassion I can do without. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 2006 Registered: 12-2003 |
Does his personal life actually demean his message? Even when it is the truth? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3655 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Yes, apparently so for some. Progressives are moved more by feelings and emotions than by logical thought--especially when they're painfully factual and interfere with their lost causes. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 601 Registered: 12-2006 |
I agree with sj. It doesn't matter who's doing the talking. The points he made are valid and critical. If the school system continues to operate as it has been, nothing else the City does will make much of a difference at all. | ||
Ferntruth Member Username: Ferntruth Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2006 |
ok, Detroit sucks. There everyone happy now? I didn't put too much feeling and emotion into that did I, Livernoisyard? =) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3656 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Because you believe that Detroit doesn't suck, why don't you express your own actual opinion and substitute Newt for Detroit above? | ||
Bumble Member Username: Bumble Post Number: 288 Registered: 11-2004 |
Oh, please, sj, Livernoisyard, and professorscott are all obviously predisposed to agree with Newt. That's an emotional rather than logical response. It does matter who does the talking and Newt doesn't have a lot of room to operate, to wag his finger, at anyone. It's too bad he's doing the talking because what he says needs to be heard. I'll wait for the day when Hillary Clinton is given the same latitude on her valid and critical points of view, but I won't hold my breath. | ||
Sarge Member Username: Sarge Post Number: 713 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Or ORF, Pam, Alan55, DS, Rb336, Ferntruth, Michigan, Johnlodge, Jams, Barnesfoto, Bumble and so on and so on and so on.......... | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3658 Registered: 10-2004 |
Rodham's high disapproval rating is how she's perceived by the overall electorate. Nobody's forcing her to run, so she should accept her lumps. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1568 Registered: 10-2003 |
 | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1569 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Or ORF, Pam, Alan55, DS, Rb336, Ferntruth, Michigan, Johnlodge, Jams, Barnesfoto, Bumble and so on and so on and so on.........." Hey I don't know what to make of this list I am included on. Are you calling me a resident liberal? ;) | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 390 Registered: 01-2004 |
I find Livernoisyard’s comment pretty crude and sensational, but regardless, as a progressive, I agree with some of the stuff Newt is saying. The DPS is a joke and the problem is that there are people in the DPS with a vested interested (their inflated pay-checks) in keeping the status quo. Like many other Detroit bureaucracies, corruption is rampant. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 603 Registered: 12-2006 |
Bumble, I'm not the least bit predisposed to agree with Newt Gingrich on any topic whatsoever. In this case, however, he's correct; and just as I won't automatically agree with anything he (or anyone) says, I don't automatically discount it just because of who is speaking either. The DPS is a train wreck from top to bottom and is holding the City and region down. Somebody has to do something, and that's true whether you like having it pointed out or not. | ||
Ferntruth Member Username: Ferntruth Post Number: 73 Registered: 11-2006 |
Thanks Sarge! I appreciate you including me in such esteemed company! Just doing my part to piss off the Reich wing. (there's that damned Nazi comparison again!) | ||
Ferntruth Member Username: Ferntruth Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2006 |
quote: "Because you believe that Detroit doesn't suck, why don't you express your own actual opinion and substitute Newt for Detroit above" So now you can tell what my actual opinions are? You must be truly blessed with ESP like that! You ASSUME you know what you are speaking of, and that just illuminates your ignorance. | ||
Sarge Member Username: Sarge Post Number: 714 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: No, just someone who has been engaged in a dialogue along the following lines: JL: I like cornflakes. LoonyTunes: You hate America, love terrorists, are lazy and condone the murder of millions of African Americans without anesthesia! JL: No. Really. Cornflakes are pretty good. LoonyTunes: Why do you think a nanny government owes you your cornflakes? Why can't you get your own cornflakes without the help of some corrupt and criminal union? Or some lazy liberal loony leftist politician who can't understand facts and makes decisions based solely on emotion? Why do you think the government is the answer to everything?!?!?!?! JL: WTF?!?!? I'm just saying I like cornflakes.....If you don't like cornflakes, so be it. LoonyTunes: Were you raised in a ghetto on paint chips?!? Did you attend public schools staffed by unionized teachers who can barely read? Vulgarities really distract away from your argument, although you really had no point or position anyway. JL: Are you completely insane?!? All I said was I like cornflakes. LoonyTunes: Nice try, JL! JL = clueless. JL: I'm done talking to you. You're nuts. LoonyTunes: A typical liberal leftist. If you can't win, and you can't in a battle of logic if you're a liberal, you take your ball and go home!!! LoonyTunes1: And we'll take that victory because you have now forfeited as a result of your having to confront a superior intellect. Silly leftist. Who else belongs on the list????? (Message edited by Sarge on August 08, 2007) | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1574 Registered: 10-2003 |
LOL Sarge. | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 44 Registered: 07-2007 |
DPS is an abomination. It's a travesty that Calloway is set to make $280k in a system that continues to use out dated textbooks, lacks appropriate security, and has at least an equal number of dropouts as it does graduates. Why couldnt some of her compensation be tied to performance bonuses? She'll come here with abosolutely no incentive to accomplish anything substantial, and when she fails, will blame it on other ancillary things. And now they want to have some conference in Ohio? Supposedly at a time when DPS is hemorraging money? Why cant they lock themselves in a room at COBO and meet? Cater some fucking sandwiches, or better yet, use some of their excessive salary and go to McDonalds. This is the exact reason the middle class is running the hell away from the D. This sort of malfeasence is criminal. Newt is right, he is just to white and rich for poor blacks to understand. | ||
Docmo Member Username: Docmo Post Number: 285 Registered: 10-2005 |
DPS has been failing for years. The State stepped in a few years back and most residents cried out about their lack of local control and how "The Man" was taking over their kid's education. Newt has a good point here. Some of the outcry over the State takeover was due to the fact that so many of the residents of this city are public employees. Drastic changes to the school board might actually drastically change how public employees are compensated. Can't have that now, can we? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 606 Registered: 12-2006 |
'dad, They're having the conference in Ohio in order to get around the Open Meetings Act without violating it explicitly. They're violating it in spirit but as any good attorney will tell you, laws don't have "spirit". If they lock themselves in a room at Cobo they are explicitly violating the law. By haveing an open meeting in Ohio, anyone "can" attend but as a practical matter nobody really is able to. The whole purpose of this supposed conference is to be able to meet in a place the public they are supposed to represent can't get to. You could shoot them all, but another group just like 'em would come along. I have felt for a long time Detroit is too big for a single school district, but it's written into state law that Detroit has to be a single district, for some long-forgotten reason. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 13 Registered: 07-2007 |
What!, Detroit has poor failing schools? I can't believe this! I was told by all the paid ads on radio and t.v. that Detroit had excellent schools. I thought the great schools are why everyone is moving here. | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 46 Registered: 07-2007 |
Ive always thought that DPS should be comprised of no more than 200k students, and run by a group of philanthropists. I went to one of the better schools in the city, and was ill prepared for college. What incentive does middle class families have to move into one of those newer homes if their neighborhood schools are Carstens, Remus Robinson and Southeastern/Finney? | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 4062 Registered: 10-2003 |
Maybe Newt should come to the D and take over the DPS, see how well he does it, see if he can do it better than Adamany and his gang who couldn't shoot straight and snuck off in the virtual dark of night back to their corporate sinecures. Due to the extreme economic and racial segregation of Metro D, the DPS as school of last resort, the one that can't say no, faces a nearly insurmountable problems. It begins makeup of the student body, drawn from one of the most impoverished, highest single-parent, developmentally-disabled districts anywhere. These kids, the big majority of whom are good kids wanting the same as kids in more priviledged settings, are in a tough and unfair situation. So are their teachers. They need smaller class sizes, state of the art and secure facilities and the best teachers, all things an impoverished district cannot afford. IMO it would be beneficial if all teacher hiring could be done in a reverse auction - bidding for a West Bloomfield PE teacher would start at $20K. The longer a job went unbid, the higher it would pay. BTW, $280K is not out of line for a position of that responsibility and that size revenue. In the corporate world she would be underpaid. | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 48 Registered: 07-2007 |
In no way should she be receiving, with benefits, car, and security detail, in excess of should be a $400k a year benefit. How can you compare a supposedly not-for-profit venture with an entity whose sole purpose is to create wealth for its stockholders, with a crashing public school system. Remember 600 Michigan SCHOOL TEACHERS with a third of the administrators salaries have BEEN LET GO!••••••••• Within the state it has come to light the a suburban school district has layed off about 80 teachers but the superintendent GETS A $30K bonus,, a car FOR WHAT? It's time for radical change in DPS, yet with this exorbitant salary, the hire of all of her administrators from her previous employer (cronyism, dont we have enough of that ALREADY?) it seems to be business as usual | ||
Ja1mz Member Username: Ja1mz Post Number: 56 Registered: 02-2007 |
Newt for Mayor of the D...or Prez of the USA...he can't do worse | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2570 Registered: 10-2003 |
Turnout for yesterday's School Board primary election was only 5%. If you were looking for a sign that citizens are taking charge and progress is just around the corner, that wasn't it. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3663 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: | ||
Jenniferl Member Username: Jenniferl Post Number: 389 Registered: 03-2004 |
Someone should do a reality show where they take ten poor kids from Detroit and send them to a nice upper-middle class suburban high school for one semester. At the same time, take ten kids from that suburban school and send them to a Detroit public high school-- not a magnet school or a selective school like Cass Tech, but a run of the mill neighborhood school. It would be interesting to see what happens to both sets of kids. I doubt if anyone would ever do this, though. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2571 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote:And your point is? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 608 Registered: 12-2006 |
Lowell, Glad to see you on this thread. $280K is too much for someone to fail at any job. I can screw up schools for half what they're paying the current super. In 1931 someone pointed out to Babe Ruth that he was paid more than President Hoover; the reporter who told him that asked him if he thought it was fair. Ruth's legendary response: "I had a better year." It's ridiculous to blame poverty, segregation or anything else. Other big cities have similar problems and have done a better job. Detroit Public Schools is not accountable to anyone but its own bloated bureaucracy. About fifteen years ago I had to meet with someone at one of the "area" offices. Very plush digs, expensive furniture, new carpeting, and so on. A quarter mile away was an elementary school with broken windows and bathrooms with broken plumbing, classrooms with no chalk and ten year old textbooks (and not enough of them). Money is a problem but so long as we have an entrenched bureaucracy that would rather spend the limited funds on itself than spend the funds on education, the amount of money dumped into that trash bin won't matter. I'm still hoping someone can suggest something helpful. Break up the district is my only suggestion. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 609 Registered: 12-2006 |
Jennifer, it would be easy to find the parents of the ten poor Detroit kids who would be willing to send them to a "nice upper-middle class suburban high school" for a semester, or for four years. I'll give you a thousand dollars if you can find parents of ten kids from "that suburban school" who would be willing to wreck their childrens' futures by sending them to the neighborhood Detroit high school. It's a tragedy of the worst kind; we're throwing away tens of thousands of kids with potential every year on the altar of power and control. Someone ought to be shot, but maybe shooting is too quick and painless a death. No matter what good things may happen in Detroit, if we don't do something about the catastrophe of the City schools, nothing else really will ever matter. Is anyone here a DPS official who would like to comment? Not "teacher", I know that's a tough gig and I sympathize. I have to try to reteach some of the kids you've tried to teach. I want to hear from officials. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 83 Registered: 06-2007 |
Jennifer-Not a bad idea. Network execs would love to use that kind of idea. I fear what the results could be, though. In honesty, I think the inner-city kids would find the suburban schools harder academically but not as polarizing socially.I think there would be some extreme hostility toward the wealthier suburban kids,sort of like "you have your rich schools, why are you infiltrating our place. Keep yours, and leave ours to us." Just look at how defensive they get when the state threatens a takeover.I graduated from a public high school in a very affluent area. We had a few kids who enrolled after moving out of the DPS district.Made friends and found a clique in no time.Not sure that would happen if the situation was reversed, though. If you don't pitch that idea to the execs than I just might. |
