 
Cgunn
Member
Username: Cgunn
Post Number: 77
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 1:27 pm: |    |
1805 what time were these pictures taken? |
1805
Member
Username: 1805
Post Number: 67
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 1:30 pm: | |
August 7th at 8:45PM. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 602
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 1:38 pm: | |
The point isn't that slobs exist. Slobs exist everywhere. The point is (or should be) that there isn't anybody to come around on a regular basis and clean up.
I could help now and then - but I ride the bus, and there is no bus to Belle Isle anymore. So somebody else will have to help. |
1805
Member
Username: 1805
Post Number: 68
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 1:44 pm: | |
I'd have to disagree, Scott. I think the point should be that people ought to be held accountable for their own actions. Clean-up is a REACTIONARY solution to a problem that shouldn't have happened in the first place.
But, yeah, I plan to make it out there today and do what I can. |
Miss_cleo
Member
Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 763
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 2:32 pm: | |
YOu must feel guilty then if one person saying *you guys* and *bunch of slobs* makes you react like its a personel affront on yourself. lol |
Russix
Member
Username: Russix
Post Number: 34
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 3:41 pm: | |
Since the city has stopped bulk pickup, city-wide dumping is rampant. This scene is not as bad as you think. Picture a whole lot of household items dumped on this lot(old furniture, tvs, bags and bags of garbage). Then picture a massive amount of rats and flies all over this pile as the stink rises from this pile like yellow fumes. These plastic cups will hopefully be blown over by conner creek where the high levels of heavy metals and industrial solvents will dissolve these cups and indoctrinate the byproducts into the extensive toxic sludge permeating the riverbed. |
Gotdetroit
Member
Username: Gotdetroit
Post Number: 90
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 5:08 pm: | |
I drove around the park Saturday afternoon with my kids. They had a ball pointing out (mostly on that end) all the rotten/broken picnic tables, piles and piles of garbage bags, un-mowed grass, etc.
Unforch, this was nothing new to them. Even they can appreciate how retarded it is for people to toss their stuff and not take care of their surroundings.
On the downtown trash side: It might help - as I've said a thousand times - if there were actually trash cans on every corner. As opposed to one every 3 blocks in most spots. People actually walk here, leaving some folks with the dilemma of whether to toss their trash on the nearest patch of concrete or carry it for 3 blocks. Dunno, just guessing.
As for the suburbs: I will say this, I don't recall seeing that level of laziness (trash-wise) when I lived in the suburbs. But then again, the suburbs were gay. |
Miss_cleo
Member
Username: Miss_cleo
Post Number: 764
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 5:30 pm: | |
So you are saying the *gay* suburbs are cleaner?
LOL, get your panties in a twist cause I said *you guys* and b*bunch of slobs* while most of your here continually blame the suburbs for all the problems Detroit cant or wont fix, blame SUV drivers for using all the gas and blocking your view, etc, etc....seems to me the people of Detroit love to shift the blame to anyone but THEMSELVES! |
Jerrytimes
Member
Username: Jerrytimes
Post Number: 52
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 6:05 pm: | |
And this is one of the many things wrong with the city. |
Gotdetroit
Member
Username: Gotdetroit
Post Number: 91
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 6:47 pm: | |
Miss_Cleo: I bait you. Not the other way around. |
Pussygirl313
Member
Username: Pussygirl313
Post Number: 32
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 7:12 pm: | |
I get so tired of picking up trash in my front yard. People just throw trash out of there car while passing, or the kids just drop the candy wrappers/pizza boxes/water bottles....you name it and keep walking. While driving to work downtown from the eastside I have seen people disgard fast food bags out of thier window.
Many people don't care about littering. I was out at Kensington Metro Park last Saturday as a guess with a friend of mind, and the park was packed and there was no litter that I could see.
The poor folks who live in this town just don't care. Or have lost all pride. The end of the world is upon us. |
Pdombr
Member
Username: Pdombr
Post Number: 24
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 8:43 pm: | |
I was on the island on Sunday, and there were quite a few family reunions, also Cass Tech was having class reunion.
It appeared also that there were crews of people with garbage bags and such picking up litter.
I wonder if some "bored" kids went through and knocked over the trach bins. |
River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat
Post Number: 280
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 9:50 pm: | |
Too bad the city refuses to sell Belle Isle to my consortium. We would turn it into beautiful neighborhoods of people with pride.
Real estate slowdown and the deterioration has lowered my offer to $750M. C'mon Kwame, sell me the island (with the bridge and approaches -- DYC and the USCG can stay). |
Ohudson
Member
Username: Ohudson
Post Number: 257
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 11:12 pm: | |
The homeless people go thru the trash to find whatever and dump it all out around the can. Chandler Park (and probably every other park)looks the same. |
Goblue
Member
Username: Goblue
Post Number: 239
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 11:21 pm: | |
A sad situation from the '50's when all we had to worry about was stepping on used condoms with our golf spikes in the Chandler Park Golf Course parking lot...throw aways from the night before. |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 106
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 12:09 am: | |
The underlying point to this thread lies in the fact that there are no REACTIONARY crews that would normally respond to a "flash trash" incident like this one.
It would be safe to say that other cities potentially have REACTIONARY groups/crews that would be available to pick up "trash flashes", thus, never lingering long enough to become a thread on DY.
annnnd, off we are to the classic quarrel...... the suburbs VS the D.
Good for you folks that have said they would pitch in to clean the area up. There needs to be more voids filled (<-you guys) in the cities myriad lacking areas.
Maybe it was wild teens, or wild dogs, or even wild wind. Maybe it was the city catching an extra $750 for little or no work. What if it was one, solitary person not following up on their responsibilities?
who cares......... it's what didn't happen that bugs me. |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 134
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 11:47 am: | |
A lot of people here have made some very good points, but this is the reality of our society today. People that have no respect for themselves have no respect for others-period. I see this phenomenon all throughout the region, and it seems more particularly prevalent in Detroit. If you don't believe me, just check out Dragoon or Cavalry between Fort and Jefferson. Or the Parade Ground of the Fort after a soccer game. Even after the Motor City Makeover swept through, the empty lots with the stacked debris that they gathered still remain. No one has bothered to corral the trash into receptacles that can be moved away to the dump. They have just left the piles gathered to get larger through more illegal dumping.
To help alleviate the problem, the City could demand that the absentee property owners maintain or clean-up the property that they own. If, after a year of no action, and the property owner does not maintain the property, then "Imminent Domain" should be enforced and the property absorbed and cleaned-out. I think of how easy this would be when I go from Fort to Jefferson on Livernois. That stretch of road keeps anyone with any sanity from visiting the Fort alone!!
It would also be easier for the police to do their jobs if they didn't have to police such a heaping tennement every time they are called in there. At least they would be able to see through the piles of crap!!
Tkshreve-
The City barely provides bare-bones services as it is. Remember what Kwame said in his last state of the city speech-no one is coming to help-grab a broom and sweep up your own area. If you don't like what you see, take some time and change it. Perhaps your effort will spark others to do the same.
P-girl, the end has been upon us for years. Go out and take it back yourself, just like you do when you are out there picking up trash. Perhaps some day someone will volunteer to help YOU! |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1329
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 12:28 pm: | |
"It would be safe to say that other cities potentially have REACTIONARY groups/crews that would be available to pick up "trash flashes", thus, never lingering long enough to become a thread on DY. "
True. Central Park, NY gets tons of litter and they have many people employed to pick it up. There is litter all day, every day in Manhattan, but there is also someone to pick it up. It's probably a lot cheaper to do that than to pay a toy cop to run around all day writing tickets that won't get paid.
My cousin was shocked when I told her all streets are cleaned at least twice a week here (the more high traffic areas are cleaned daily), as opposed to once a year in Detroit. |
Bumble
Member
Username: Bumble
Post Number: 299
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 1:06 pm: | |
"I like the city of San Juan."
"I know a boat you can get on." |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 610
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 1:14 pm: | |
"The City barely provides bare-bones services as it is."
Then why does the City exist at all? |
Buyamerican
Member
Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 126
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 1:22 pm: | |
It's hanging on by a fine thread. GM and Chrysler still provide a tax base for Detroit and some small businesses are hanging in there as well. According to others on this site, there are still good neighborhoods in Detroit and it's citizens are paying their high taxes and are keeping their property up.
Detroit needs the Big 3 desperately right now, but until Americans wake up and support the American auto industry, Detroit as well as other cities will die a slow death. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 613
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 1:30 pm: | |
Buy, other cities are not dying a slow death, for the most part. They were in the 1970s but they've improved. Detroit is more or less all by itself in this regard. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1330
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 1:37 pm: | |
"The City barely provides bare-bones services as it is."
Then why does the City exist at all?
Exactly. |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 135
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 5:11 pm: | |
Well then, according to that thinking, what do you suggest, Prof and Iheart? Apparently we should just throw the towel in, curl up in the fetal position and go away? Since you provide no POSITIVE options, what do you want done? If you were in charge, how would you fix it? Please give some suggestions to help, not encourage the decline. As far as I can tell, the city has always
"existed" so what now?
Prof-
Apparently you haven't been to some of the major cities that I have recently. Memphis, Nashville, Savannah, Atlanta, etc. are all in the "process" of rebuilding, and although they are slightly better in job availability, the jobs offered often require two incomes because they are low-paying "service industry" type jobs that don't pay much ($6 to $10/hr). People in this city can't afford to work for that rate, so they would rather take the entitlement funding, as though not working somehow justifies that they steal from the rest of us. It is a shame.
No one here, as of yet, has even offered a idea as to how to fix it, either. I would think that with the intelligence that I've seen from the forum members here that there would be a ton of suggestions/grass roots efforts, but to no avail.
Until ALL of us are on the same page on the clean-up the trash issues, this will continue to be a black spot on the city and it's environs. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 1610
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 5:13 pm: | |
Well Penske is still cleaning downtown right? That's something. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1338
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 5:17 pm: | |
Well then, according to that thinking, what do you suggest, Prof and Iheart?
First, my statement wasn't a jab at the city, it was meant to provoke thought as to why Detroit should exist? Maybe if the powers revisit the purpose of the city's existence, they might figure out why so many people are trying desperately to leave it. So I guess my proposal is that the people in charge sit down and look at why people choose to live in a city. Take examples from other large well functioning cities in the country and the world. Figure out what is desperately lacking in Detroit (transit system comes to mind) and implement it come hell or high water.
Otherwise, they might as well roll over and die because they are serving no useful purpose. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 1612
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 5:21 pm: | |
"Figure out what is desperately lacking in Detroit"
Money and safety? |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 136
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 5:38 pm: | |
Iheart-
I wasn't accusing you of jabbing, rather, I was doing the same thing as you were-trying to stimulate thought on the subject in order to generate positive, effective ways to bring the city back from it's decline.
I totally agree with the transit system statement, but it is really much more than that. Someone or something HUGE must happen to bring the many diverse cultures of this great area together. We are, as far as I can tell, the most racially divided city in the country, if not the world. To steal a quote from a great man, "A house divided amongst itself will not stand".
We need to reign-in those that talk negatively of other races and use race-baiting and the like to address issues rather than the hard work of making friends and bringing people to the table-not drive them away. Our leaders need to do less bad mouthing of others and get their own house in order. We ned to take back the city and make it the way WE want it, not keep depending on someone to come and save us. No one has come, and no one will. Perhaps one day that will happen, but the scars that keep getting opened like old wounds will never heal until WE change things and get beyond the things that keep us down.
Please keep the suggestions coming. |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 109
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 9:57 pm: | |
Unfortunately, most solutions to Detroit's predicament involve capital, expenses, breaks, sacrifices, risks and planning. I think Detroit may have the planning part down because it is a non-expendable position. Without the money, however, plans can not be implemented.
For instance:
1- Heavier police forces including overtime.
2- Public transit to alleviate the highways and daily commute frustrations of driving downtown for work. (that means less American cars sold in Detroit - The Big 3's best customers)
3- Endless city services
4- Tax breaks to lure businesses into the city (job creation)
5- Tax breaks to lure tax paying citizens into the cities
6- Major leisure developments (like the boardwalk, sports stadiums)
7- Efficient trash removal
8- Lot clearing (abandoned houses)
9- Race relations to destroy barriers
10- consumer confidence
11- etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.
There are endless things that can be done to make our city attractive. Most of them cost money, and would also take time to really make a mark on peoples perceptions. Even more so, enacting many of these actions and plans at once would be ideal to create a synergistic flow of good things into the city. If a metro detroiter sees one thing that is helping the city they may think, "hmm, about time that happened". If they see 5 or 7 or even 18 things that the city deserves. they are gonna think somewhat different about what is exactly going on.
But the more you do the more it costs. Nobody is investing right now (besides Illitch). Th city. The residents. The suburbanites.
I wish I had the answer, I really do. |
Rickinatlanta
Member
Username: Rickinatlanta
Post Number: 95
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 10:16 pm: | |
Atlanta is not rebuilding as it has a very robust economy across all sectors. Service jobs are always at a demand but also high tech, manufacturing, and financial jobs are at an all time high. |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 137
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 10:32 pm: | |
Rick-
You live there (obviously) so you should know. My experience with Atlanta and the greater Atlanta area is limited to having applied for jobs there and the fact that my bro in law is the mayor of a city just north of Savannah. My sister lived in Atlanta for years and claims that it is still struggling in a lot of ways, so apparently she or he does not know what they are talking about.
When I interviewed at Bluebird, I did not find anything about the area that was any different than Detroit with any of it's problems.
Tk-
I'm glad that at least you tried to answer my questions. My point was to elicit ideas, and that has started. Who cares who does it (politicians or residents) the fact is is that something needs to be done, and these types of discussions could start the "synergy" that you refer to. I believe that people are beginning to see a difference (when they actually come to the city) but, as you stated, too, perceptions mean everything.
Your comment regarding item #9 are the key. The problem is the dwindling constituency to foot the bill. |
Fareastsider
Member
Username: Fareastsider
Post Number: 519
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 1:00 am: | |
The people who blame bums, dog or kids need to quit being so Naive all the people there trashed it, its that simple. Im sure that if the city had more money it would be cleaned up better im sure that is part of the blame as well. |
Huggybear
Member
Username: Huggybear
Post Number: 307
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 4:32 am: | |
quote:A $3 daily fee or a $20 annual one will lead to more trash receptacles, more workers to pick up trash and better overall maintenance of the island. A cleaner, well maintained Belle Isle will increase the number of people visiting which will increase the park's revenue even more. WHY THE HELL HAS THIS NOT BEEN DONE YET?????? Because City Council says it wants to protect the poorest people in town. I don't really understand this. If you have a car, you can afford a price of admission that is less than a gallon of gas, less than a gallon of milk, and far less than a pack of cigarettes. I don't recall seeing any proposed fees that covered people coming in on foot, on bikes, or on busses. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1339
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 10:47 am: | |
"Money and safety?"
You know Detroit has never been as dangerous as some claim. If the city ever wants to be prosperous again they need to fix what is wrong now with what it has.
"I totally agree with the transit system statement, but it is really much more than that. Someone or something HUGE must happen to bring the many diverse cultures of this great area together. We are, as far as I can tell, the most racially divided city in the country, if not the world. To steal a quote from a great man, "A house divided amongst itself will not stand". "
It is really hard to teach an old dog new tricks. My philosophy is to let those who don't venture below 16 Mile stay there. Tap dancing around to change their minds is only wasting valuable time that we could be using to make fundamental infrastructure changes corrections that will make Detroit (city and metro) an attractive place to live again. |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 110
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 1:18 pm: | |
"It is really hard to teach an old dog new tricks. My philosophy is to let those who don't venture below 16 Mile stay there. Tap dancing around to change their minds is only wasting valuable time that we could be using to make fundamental infrastructure changes corrections that will make Detroit (city and metro) an attractive place to live again."
What you say has some validity to it Iheart. Some people will always be race/urban phobic no matter what help is available. As soon as you say "let them stay there" there are 20 people behind you saying "yeah man----- stay there" as it cascades into an ultimatum.
Instead you should be inviting people to come to your city to experience the things you like so much about it. It is pointless to assume that there is nothing you can do for groups of stubborn people.
Things are so bad between cultures that small nuances are misconstrued as personal jabs and piss-lines in the dirt.
[a mind is like a parachute - it only works when it's open] |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1342
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 2:06 pm: | |
Instead you should be inviting people to come to your city to experience the things you like so much about it. It is pointless to assume that there is nothing you can do for groups of stubborn people.
If I were running the show, the invitation would always be open. I don't discourage anyone from suburbia who wants to support the city. My position is that the city is fighting a very important battle with very limited resources, and suburbia has historically been content with not pitching in to save the city. So what value will it bring to waste efforts trying to change the minds of people who aren't interested in changing? |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 623
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 2:33 pm: | |
If you look at what other cities have done in order to rebuild, one of the commonest things (over the past quarter century) is to reinvest in and rebuild public transportation. It's not a cure-all by any means but it provides a lot of opportunity. And, if you have good transit, then a lot of people can afford to live on less pay than people used to make in Detroit.
Detroit, instead, has cut and cut and cut, from a system that was barely so-so to begin with. In the past ten years Detroit has cut over 20% of its bus lines, eliminated overnight service on nearly all of them, cut mid-day, evening and weekend service on others, and many of the remaining routes run at frequencies of a half-hour or worse.
So if I was going to run things for a while, my first thought would be to divert money from other things that are less important (go read the City budget; you'll find dozens) and put it back into this basic urban service.
That would be a first step.
Look at my question earlier: why does the City exist? In order to answer that, you have to be able to answer this question: what does the City offer to a potential resident or business owner that suburbs do not? So anyone questioning why I'd ask that, please answer this: as of right now, what is the answer to that question?
Note I said "resident or business owner" because they pay taxes. Don't say things that visitors can enjoy just as well like "Tiger games". Anyone living in Royal Oak can go downtown to see a game without living in Detroit or owning a business there. |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 111
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 3:01 pm: | |
Prof - The city does not offer many opportunities to residents and business owners, unless you are in the business of booze, cigarettes, drugs, pawn-shops, dollar stores and gas stations. That is what the common denominator of business has succumbed to in the city. Larger businesses I wouldn't be able to comment on.
Furthermore, look at the latest threads and discussion about grocery stores. Farmer Jack is gone altogether. The big players want nothing to do with detroit. 7-11 pulled out of detroit 4 years ago. These types of "staple" businesses are essential to providing an inviting atmosphere to potential residents.
In a nut shell, I don't think the city offers many things at all to attract new citizens, and especially not new businesses considering the aforementioned.
Building up the public transit systems is a great idea. We need to be able to move around the tri-county area fluently, but remember it also goes against the grain of the Big 3. The big 3 receive very good consumer loyalty from this city, and taking away customers from them will hurt the metropolitan economy even further. It is sort of a catch 22. Unless we decide the Big 3 are no longer a focus on the success of Detroit and Michigan as a whole. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 626
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 3:24 pm: | |
Tkshreve,
The big 3 don't sell enough cars in metro Detroit for them to worry about how we get around. I believe the big 3 are an anachronism, but ignore that for the moment. Even in cities with excellent transit, most people own cars. I have read that about 1/3 of City of Detroit households don't have a car as it is.
So I don't see how improving transit in such a minor automotive market as Detroit will make all that much difference. If the big 3 want to increase sales, they have to figure out how to appeal to more customers in markets like NY and LA, and overseas. We just aren't that important, to them or anyone else, as a market. |
Buyamerican
Member
Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 128
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 3:58 pm: | |
The question is this...why did the 7-11's leave Detroit, why did Farmer Jack leave, why doesn't big business want anything to do with Detroit?
Could it be that the crime statistics in Detroit scare people away? Could it be that the lack of protection, both police and fire, could be reasons? |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 112
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 4:16 pm: | |
Prof - I travel for a living and spend up to 2 weeks in different cities throughout the year. It shocks me how heavy some of these cities support foreign auto manufacturers. It's well above 50% in most of the cities I have been to. Those include: Raleigh, NC - Portland, OR - Columbia, SC -
I really can't blame most of these people because the foreign auto makers do have a superior product in many ways.
Buyamerican - because they were not worth the money and time ----- yes ----- yes |
Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1847
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 6:40 pm: | |
quote:...the jobs offered often require two incomes because they are low-paying "service industry" type jobs that don't pay much ($6 to $10/hr). People in this city can't afford to work for that rate...
People can afford to work at that rate in Detroit as much as they can in any other large city, especially with the cost of living in Detroit being relatively low. Not saying you can live well on that wage, but you can get by, people in other countries live on a lot less. Detroit has a number of big problems, but the existence of $6-10/hr jobs is not one of them. |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 140
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 10:15 am: | |
Dougw-
Getting by was not my focus. You might make it on that rate, but I couldn't.
If your rent is under $500/mo, I guess that you could live on that wage. But how do you save to move-up? I also agree that someone in Phuket may be able to live on that wage, but singularly it would be very difficult to make it. That is what I was saying.
I could not imagine raising a child on that wage, either.
Let's do the math:
40 hrs x $10/hr= $400.00 GROSS
Tax at 17% (lowest bracket)= $68.00
leaves $332.
$332 x 4=$1328 NET
There are other taxes, too. Let's ignore them for now and go on:
$1328-$500(min rent/mo)leaves $828 ($207/wk) for food, transportation costs, med. ins., utilities, etc. I suppose if you were extremely thrifty, you could make it on that wage. You certainly could not on $6/ hr, in my opinion. Add in a child or a catastrophic illness, and you're tapped.
Cost of living being relatively low? Put the pipe down, please!!
This is what I was alluding to.
Res |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 113
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:07 am: | |
"You certainly could not on $6/ hr, in my opinion"
Since when do people only make $6 an hour?????
Minimum wage is $7.15 and going up again sooooon.
Thanks Jennifer!! |
Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1850
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 1:30 pm: | |
Yes, you need to be thrifty to make it at $7-10/hour, but it can be done. There are other options such as sharing a household with another wage earner.
My point was that the existence of these lower-wage jobs is NOT a significant cause of some of the bigger social problems discussed on this thread, such as littering, dumping, blight, crime, etc. Unemployment may be a partial cause, though. Also, it's not as easy as it used to be to go on welfare, so I doubt very many people consciously choose to take entitlement funding rather than a minimum wage job.
(I agree that getting down to $6/hr is pretty tough, so I have no real problem with the recent minumum wage increases.) |
Tkshreve
Member
Username: Tkshreve
Post Number: 117
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 2:15 pm: | |
The minimum wage hike was designed to keep up with bloated living expenses like gasoline, insurance, property taxes, rising food costs (cheese, milk, tomatoes, etc.), heat (gas), tuitions, luxury taxes to mention a few. In reality, most of these goods and services will be affected by the minimum wage hike again. A lot of industries expenses are directly related to minimum wage workers in one way or another.
My industry (restaurant) has been a prime example of this cause-and-effect. Have fun paying higher prices for eating out from now on. Or go to little ceasar's every night. Blechh!
If greedy corporate America would stop reading and reacting to the bottom line of their profit-and-loss statements we may have been able to avoid the calamity we are in right now. Unfortunately, capitalism has driven our country to slash costs, ship jobs (overseas), consolidate wealth, streamline efficiencies AKA eliminate jobs, pay shareholders, pollute ecosystems, exploit weaknesses of all fashions or IOW, maximize profits.
It will be a cold day in hell before American businesses ALL decide to do what is in the best interest of the country.
Think about the oil companies and Enron for starters.
I'm getting my torch ready. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 1:12 pm: | |
Sorry to bring the discussion back to trash on Belle Isle, but if you want to get an earful of some colorful language, just call the Union 140 office.
Yikes!The lady that answers the phone will take your head off, followed by the Union steward. Neither would give me their names, but boy, it sure was refreshing to hear colorful language.
I suggest, keep calling them: they really hate getting calls from concerned citizens. |
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