  Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2007 |
I'm completing a Masters degree in Community Development from the University of Detroit Mercy. Our project is based on the possible rejuvenation of the Avenue Of Fashion, with a slight variation on the theme. We're looking for people who have some context, present or historical, with this region of the city for possible interviews. www.udmercy.edu/stay-connected /news-events/newsletters/soa/2 007/01/mcd/index.htm | ||
Jman Member Username: Jman Post Number: 84 Registered: 10-2006 |
I worked there for a couple of years back in the early 60's but I doubt that I could be of any help. That was a looong time ago. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1343 Registered: 10-2006 |
No idea in which direction to send you if you are looking for more of the social or cultural context. Is Constance Bodurow still around the architecture building these days at UDM? You might want to have her put you in contact with Rebecca Binno Savage. Rebecca might be able to share with you a bit about the history of the development and architecture of that strip. Rebecca might also be able to give you more information on who to talk to. | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 898 Registered: 10-2003 |
I wonder if there's something in the archives? Seems we had a long discussion about the Avenue Of Fashion a couple of years ago. | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 116 Registered: 08-2006 |
the avenue of fashion needs street parking like that of birmingham and royal oak with lots o private security, restaurants, and a mix between national-brand retail combined with some mom n pop things. mid-rise housing set off the street to buffer sherwood forest would do wonders. the vital connections that need to be linked would be 9 mile in ferndale and woodward connecting down to the new gateway park proposal and udm & marygrove on the very edge. the clients are the UDM/Marygrove student base along with the sherwood forest, palmer park residents who hold more expendable income. the proposed upfit of the old farmer jack at 7 n livernois would be the anchor to the district. a further greening of the new blvd would help attract shoppers. there are no clubs other than bakers lounge and the lockeroom. nothing is college friendly for the college students who prove to be the largest regular clients. if the area is upscale yet casual, so many more people would not have to go downtown or uptown(ferndale, royal oak) for groceries, non-cliche clothing, and entertainment. this area needs to be diversified enough so as to not compete, but compliment the gateway park development, if it ever goes through. safety, accessibility, viability and diversity are top priorities in no particular order. happy studies- i'll be in the lorranger bldg toiling all year long | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 581 Registered: 12-2006 |
The former "Avenue of fashion" is (at its closest) 1 mile from the main UDM campus, and farther from Marygrove, so it's a bit of a stretch to say the college students will be the target market. Six and Livernois, which is exactly where the students at UDM are, does nothing to try to attract that market. 'Dad, the main Detroit Public Library has archival newspapers, which contained many advertisements for businesses on that strip. Pick a day from, say, 1952, then every five years hence, and you can start to see what was there at various points in time. As with all things D, the Ave rode the roller-coaster of population and demographics. UDM students do their shopping, dining and partying outside Detroit for the most part, and don't consider that City businesses care about their business at all. Having spent time on and near that campus, I agree. Of course, it helps to remember that UDM is and always has been mainly a commuter school, and the majority of commuter students live outside the City. They come to campus for classes, and since there's nothing nearby to keep their interest, they go back home. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3555 Registered: 10-2004 |
My uncle ran his business within a quarter mile from UoD, and that stretch on Livernois ceased being the Avenue of Fashion decades ago. It's still pretty dangerous at times, but a number of rehabbed businesses are there now. | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 118 Registered: 08-2006 |
professor i have lived on campus for the past four years. i do my shopping at the pied piper, the cvs on livernois, and the now defunct farmer jack. i did my drinking at courtney's on puritan near wyoming-it got torched i did more of my drinking at tropical hut. they used to have college nights. i get all of my food from subway, burger king, china wok, and a host of others all on livernois. all of the kids on campus do the same. so how are we not part of that market? | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 393 Registered: 11-2006 |
I would say we are a huge part of the Livernois market, but sadly it doesn't serve us very well. We use the stores that work as Hybridy has mentioned, oh and by the way China Wok is the best, Menjos though on McNichols also gets attention from students. Among on campus students I think the Livernois market has lost lots of business to Ferndale and Royal Oak, because there stores there that are really missing from the Ave, a national bookstore, more sit down resturants, opening the campus up to the neighborhood, I think are very important for the school and neighborhood to mesh well. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 583 Registered: 12-2006 |
The students who live on campus patronize the local businesses to some extent, agreed. Hybridy, when you said "all of the kids on campus do the same", you're exposing the problem. There just aren't enough students on or near campus to make a "campus neighborhood" type of vibe. When I said "UDM students do their shopping..." earlier, I was referring to the vast majority, who live in the suburbs or elsewhere in the City, and spend no more time on campus than their classes require. 6nois, you don't have those kinds of businesses because of this. What are there, like, eight or nine hundred students living on campus eight months out of the year? That's not a sufficient number of people to support the kinds of businesses you want. A small town of 900 people would not have such businesses typically. In order for that neighborhood to become anything, either more students have to live on/near campus, or there has to be some new and compelling reason to develop the area. | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 119 Registered: 08-2006 |
professor i agree on all fronts and have always proclaimed my udm priorities are student housing and student-related facilities which udm is lacking in every way | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 120 Registered: 08-2006 |
i had no idea menjos was on most people's radars-i must be out of that loop lol | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 4 Registered: 07-2007 |
I would agree with prof. There are not enough students, (or residents that are or near the typical student age, we've looked at the census tract info) that live on or near the campus to support the type of business that would cater to them, as hybridy and 6 have discussed. Thanks for the input, please, keep posting!! As an eastsider, who has travel a few miles for school, I try to support the businesses on Livernois when I'm on this side of town, but the options are limited, unless I want lingerie, or braids, or...well,......braids. In our presentation, we've already discussed proposing some of the aforementioned ideas. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 584 Registered: 12-2006 |
'Dad, you mentioned in your first post a "slight variation on the [Ave. of Fashion] theme". Can you give us a clue? | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 5 Registered: 07-2007 |
Sorry, prof. I can't, my partner, Elijah Kafer,(who happens to be completing his Masters of Architecture AND Community Development, simultaneously,) would kill me. Our presentation is 16 Aug 07, at 6 pm, in the School of Architecture. Stop By! | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3562 Registered: 10-2004 |
Noting the Muslims and Chaldeans nearby, will the Avenue sell the latest in Muslim feminine attire? By the square yard? | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 7 Registered: 07-2007 |
'Yard, thats a very interesting point. I dont know how this small strip would be able to compete with the already established clothing proprietors in Dearborn. But it's worth researching. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3563 Registered: 10-2004 |
Seven Mile near John R is Chaldean/Muslim... And a good Iraqi bakery or two. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2329 Registered: 07-2004 |
Contrary to the beliefs of those who built it, the median down Livernois is not being welcomed by the businesses and residents in the area. A by meeting with the city was just held a couple of weeks ago to discuss their grievances. I was not able to attend so I do not know what came out of it, but I was at a presentation given by the University District's president that expressed the concerns of those living and working in the area. I definitely believe angled-parking(at least on one side of the Livernois) like that in Birmingham on Old Woodward would help the Avenue of Fashion section attract more people, but that would mean eliminating the brand new median. Also, a nice size sit down restaurant would be helpful in attracting the evening crowd, but parking is needed. Right now there are too many small buildings along the Avenue of Fashion. Some of the buildings need to be converted into just one larger building(knock down some walls or build anew). For example, take three small buildings and combine them to form one big one. This would give the room needed for that restaurant I mentioned earlier. Unfortunately, the housing in this area is built up very close to Livernois, with only a small alley separating the homes from the businesses. Tearing down homes to give the businesses on Livernois more depth is not an option, but could solve the parking problem. Also, wider side walks are needed if you want restaurants with outdoor seating. However, that would eliminate any angled-parking and you still have to deal with the median, which takes up three traffic lanes. It would be interesting to see a charette done by local architecture students to see what ideas they would come up with to improve this part of Livernois. I've already given some of my suggestions. Hopefully something can be figured out so that this area can thrive again. With the higher than normal incomes of residents in the area(Sherwood Forest, University District and Palmer Woods) there's no reason why it shouldn't be thriving. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3564 Registered: 10-2004 |
Six Mile (& Livernois) was a line of demarcation separating the common folk from the somewhat wealthier. South of Six were dozens and dozens of used car lots and new/used car parts stores--the most in the US at one time--so the rumor went. North of Six was largely Jewish and lots of overpriced clothing stores. | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 8 Registered: 07-2007 |
Seven Mile and John R are Chaldean/Muslim, but it is a fairly insulated community, and have well established purchasing patterns. I have no Godly idea (pun intended), where this community purchases clothing, although I would suspect Hamtramck. Studies and surveys would need to determine if this would be a viable business opportunity. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 588 Registered: 12-2006 |
Royce, we are stumbling because we remain married to the proposition that everyone must drive everywhere. The median was meant to encourage pedestrian traffic. At Seven Mile you can park just west of Livernois in the former FJ lot and walk the entire district from there. If, however, we expect shoppers to drive from store to store within this small district, then the median does not make sense. I welcome the median as it opens opportunities that did not exist when Livernois was an antipedestrian highway from nowhere to nowhere. But that's just me. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 394 Registered: 11-2006 |
I personally like the median. I think it makes Livernois look like a real city street instead of some blighted wasteland. Now however I was thinking today on the beach, and in Saginaw, St Mary's the local Hospital has started a program that gives incentives for employees to buy houses in the neighborhoods around the hospital, so why shouldn't this be the case with profs at UDM. With the schools "commitment to the urban enviroment" you would think this would sound like a wise plan. This would also increase demand for regular businesses. That along with a strong commitment to improving housing and campus life a major change could take place. Another near by point that could be tapped is U of D Jesuit H.S. just on Seven off of Livernois. | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 555 Registered: 06-2005 |
I did not attend either of the public meetings that Royce referred to; but I did watch the City Council on Channel 10 a day or two after the meeting at Gesu. A number of residents from the University District, Green Acres, and the neighborhood west of Livernois came to the Council table to air their feelings. A major point of contention was that the entire community had not been notified of any of the community meetings. Most people said they heard of the meetings second hand and that the contact lists used by the city were not adequate. Another concern that was expressed was that the median impeded safe left turns and blocked traffic. A major concern, especially of those who live west of Livernois, is that there has been a great increase in truck traffic on the residential streets, especially Stoepel because of the difficulty that trucks have making left turns from or onto Livernois. The merchant who first requested the median has since left the area. Nobody at the Council meeting was in favor of the project. To a person, they were opposed. The Recreation Dept. suggested that they would slow down the work while they tried to improve the plan. That was not good enough for the residents. They contend that it is not working and want work halted and reversed. Most of the Council seemed to support the residents. | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 121 Registered: 08-2006 |
i may be wrong here, but i believe UDM was a major driving force in the median. the administration has hopes to extend it southward to the lodge. but we all know it has become a graveyard for bumpers and other misc, auto parts. i have no idea if this work has started or if it is even on the boards anymore. speaking of the area...has anyone heard what happened to the apartments they broke ground for at livernois and the north side of puritan? | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 397 Registered: 11-2006 |
From what I heard it was construction is supposed to resume after the Lodge construction is done. But Hybridy you are right. | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 14 Registered: 07-2007 |
Professor Scott, Would you be interested in allowing I and my research partner to interview you concerning your views and opinions on the Livernois? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 590 Registered: 12-2006 |
Sure, no problem. The question is how do we get a hold of each other since I prefer to remain quasi-anonymous here. Any suggestions? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 592 Registered: 12-2006 |
Meaghansdad, I figured it out. You know someone named Julie Kim? I'll tell her you're trying to get a hold of me, and she'll tell you how  Prof. Scott | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 123 Registered: 08-2006 |
professorscott, please do share. if you know julie kim, you must have some ties to the soa. but, i don't think you're a current faculty member. i could be wrong though. some interesting conversations could be had. you could sit in on some masters crits, if you haven't already. please do share-or give a clue at least | ||
Meaghansdad Member Username: Meaghansdad Post Number: 15 Registered: 07-2007 |
Im not familiar with Julie Kim, but I am familiar with Will Wittig, Donzetta Jones (New Assistant Dean). Or, if you want, email me @ mcdprogramcapstone@gmail.com | ||
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy Post Number: 86 Registered: 04-2007 |
I have only been to Livernois one time since the changes, but I think they are on target. The best mix for a pedestrian shopping district is SLOW traffic, plenty of places for pedestrians to cross the street, and a nice median that serves both as a pedestrian safety island and calms traffic. There should be a stop light every two blocks, max. Then you'd see great a great shopping district reappear before your very eyes. |
