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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4696
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a list of the nation’s largest libraries by volume:

#8: U of M: 8,133,917
#16: DPL: 7,572,562
#36: MSU: 4,830,861
#67: Wayne State: 3,383,826

http://www.ala.org/ala/alalibr ary/libraryfactsheet/alalibrar yfactsheet22.cfm

I wonder if they included the volumes in the Burton Collection. I also question if Wayne State’s Medical and Law libraries were included as well. I heard that that Wayne's is larger than MSU but who knows. It is a good list though…
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Cabasse
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Post Number: 48
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Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

something quite suprising to note: detroit public library, at #16, is the biggest city-owned library in the country. (edit) i don't know how i missed boston!! that was staring me in the face when i clicked the link a second time tonight

la is next at 23, chicago at 26, nyc 27, etc.

my hometown of atlanta doesn't even make the top 100, save for emory university at 83. apl only has just over 2m volumes. (lame)

/stat geek

(Message edited by cabasse on July 19, 2007)
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Lilpup
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wayne's main is probably larger than MSU's main

I'm very surprised U-Mich and DPL are less than 10% apart
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Scottr
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Post Number: 618
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 12:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It appears to only include public libraries and university libraries that are one of the 123 members of the Association of Research Libraries.

Western Michigan's library claims 4,456,214 items, which would put it at #42 - but how many others are left out?

In any case, I think that's a great thing that so many books (and other materials) available.
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Gistok
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 2:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ya know that list does seem sort of odd... that we beat out NYC, and yet Boston beat out all USA cities.

Sometimes I question the criteria used for # of volumes... does it include periodicals, does it include other items (such as items in Detroit's Burton Historical Collection)...

Lists or "order of things" always make me leary... it always reminds me that the number of cathedrals that claim to be among the 6 largest in Europe, numbers at least 20!! :-)
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Adm70
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 3:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistock - agree. I feel the same way about population (how does a 500 Sq Mile city compare to a 150 sq mile city yet metro size and pop is ignored?) Lists are meaningless these days.
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Tkelly1986
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Post Number: 371
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 6:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here at Oxford, the Bodlean is around 20mil plus and has even resorted to storing some of the books in an abandoned mine outside of town until a new book depository is built…I know that is not in the U.S, but it’s a lot of books
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Burnsie
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Post Number: 1083
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I finished my master's in library science from WSU last year, so I'm familiar with these sorts of statistics.

UM-Ann Arbor is actually #12 on the list, not #8 as Patrick stated.

Scottr wrote that it seems to include only ARL-member libraries.

No-- the ARL statistics form just one source for the list.

A couple of people have questioned whether WSU's collection is smaller than MSU's. The ALA list rankings are accurate.

There is actually both an Association of Research Libraries, and an Assocation of College Research Libraries.
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Swiburn
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Post Number: 183
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 8:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the stats, Burnsie! I believe that Harvard has the largest college library endowment, but I'm just guessing, really.
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Scottr
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Post Number: 620
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

No-- the ARL statistics form just one source for the list.



I looked at that - the other sources are 'Public Library Data Service Statistical Report 2006', (which would seem to NOT include University libraries), and direct information from the Brooklyn Public Library and Stanford Libraries. There is no other source stated for any non-ARL university libraries, so i would assume they were not included.

I assume volume=items, not titles, correct? because if so, my previous statement regarding WMU would be correct - source: http://www.wmich.edu/library/a bout/stats.php If volume=titles, than they would be off the list, but i can not find anything that defines that.

I would also point out, that says 'University of Michigan' - NOT UM-Ann Arbor. While it might intend that, it would, at first glance, seem to include the Dearborn and Flint campuses as well.

(Message edited by scottr on July 19, 2007)
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 3203
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 8:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So how valuable is that Detroit Public Library Card now?
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Xd_brklyn
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tkelly, an ex-Detroiter living in Oxford or just visiting? The Bodlean is a library like our Library of Congress that keeps every book published with a copyright. Was just there two weeks ago. Unfortunately the library was closed for Student Day or something. Will have to get back for a return visit.

Also find this list suspect. It's difficult to believe that Detroit has 1.7 million more books than the New York Public Library, which spans over five boroughs.

Then again, maybe they refer to the Detroit Public Library system. I've heard from family that if you are an Oakland country resident you can take out books from the Monroe county libraries. Possibly Detroit is linked into this network as well. Are the Monroe, Oakland, Wayne, and maybe even the Macomb county library systems linked into one network? Might this account for the large number of volumes?
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Neilr
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Post Number: 541
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no sources or facts to add to this discussion; but here's my best anecdotal experience on this topic re DPL.
Some years ago, I came across a small reproduction of a floor plan of the Dakota Apartments in NYC. This was quite unusual because the 7th floor is the most commonly pictured in print and this was of the 1st floor. The footnote gave the source as an issue of a monthly periodical for plumbing contractors, The Sanitary Engineer, from 1884, the year the Dakota was built.
I went in to the main branch of DPL, to the Science & Technology Department, and turned a call slip for the 1884 issues of The Sanitary Engineer. 15 minutes later, the page came up from the stacks toting the yellowed, fragile, bound copies of The Sanitary Engineer from 1884.
In my experience, the Main Branch of our Detroit Public Library, is much more user friendly than those in Chicago and NYC.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 1183
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Also find this list suspect. It's difficult to believe that Detroit has 1.7 million more books than the New York Public Library, which spans over five boroughs."

This list doesn't appear to consider them as one library (Queens is ranked higher than NYPL). Come to think of it, I always here of them referred to separately when spoken about publicly. Maybe they are funded solely by their respective borough/county?
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6nois
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Post Number: 381
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As long as your home library system is part of the Michicard system you can get books from almost any library in the state of Michigan Detroit Public Libraries are in the system. The link goes to a complete list of systems involved in the program.

http://envoy.libraryofmichigan .org/isapi/4disapi.dll/Directo ry/Results.html?Category=Michi card&Name=&Director=&City=&Cou nty=&Cooperative=&Class=&cb_qs ac=nosel
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Patrick
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Burnsie, I am also in the LIS program. I had several professors question these stats as well. I wonder if these numbers reflect current deaccessioning efforts. I am aware that nothing from the UGL stacks is ever weeded out. I can’t say the same for Purdy/Kresge. I know at Wayne in the UGL stacks nothing is weeded out. Libraries today seem to be slowing down. I highly doubt the Burton was included. If you have ever been in the stacks you’d realize just how enormous this collection really is.
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Texorama
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Post Number: 30
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is something odd with the count--the staff at the U-M grad library in Ann Arbor will tell you that theirs is the largest collection in the world that's open to the public. Don't know, again, whether that's the entire system or just the graduate library. NYPL does have good stuff spread out all over the city, with comparatively few at the main branch. Anyhow, would certainly agree that the DPL is a remarkable and undervalued archive.
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Jimaz
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Post Number: 2693
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All these libraries are impressive but doesn't the internet mean that they're destined for obsolescence?

I guess I'm hoping to hear reasons why that is not the case. :-)
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Patrick
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Depends on who you ask. Some professors feel the book will be around forever while others feel that the book will be extinct. Today, most students don’t know how to perform proper research in a library setting. These students are more adjusted to working online. I know a girl that went to MSU and never once used a book from their library system in 4 years. Brick and mortar libraries are turning into community centers rather than houses of research. Many offer day care and video games as well as non-reading activities.
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Iheartthed
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I know a girl that went to MSU and never once used a book"

Go figure.

lol.
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6nois
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Post Number: 382
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I doubt that the book will disappear. There is something about reading from bound pages of paper that can never be replicated by the internet. I love the internet and I guess you could say it is the tool of my generation, but I will always use books. I may be biased thought I used to work in a library.
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Burnsie
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Post Number: 1085
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patrick wrote, "I know at Wayne in the UGL stacks nothing is weeded out."

If the UGL is designated a research library, that would explain the minimal weeding. Research libraries keep most things, even if they're obsolete.
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Scottr
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Post Number: 621
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

There is something about reading from bound pages of paper that can never be replicated by the internet.


exactly my thoughts, but put into words much better, and I am not biased by previous job experience. Particularly old documents, no scanner, or display, will ever compare to the original. However, I think digitizing collections is a fantastic idea, not only for archival purposes, so that most information on those pages is safe from fire and other disasters, but to make it more accessible, while protecting the originals from excessive wear and tear.
quote:

15 minutes later, the page came up from the stacks toting the yellowed, fragile, bound copies of The Sanitary Engineer from 1884.


Neilr, that is really impressive. I haven't had any experience with the DPL, but knowing that they have such things, AND that they can get it in a reasonable amount of time, impresses me enough that i may have to make the trip, even if there is nothing in particular i need. Hell, it's taken me longer than that to find merchandise in my store's 750 sq. foot stockroom.
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Pffft
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Post Number: 1302
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I know a girl that went to MSU and never once used a book"

And with the MSU Library, and its wonderful grad stacks, right there. This is the kind of person who now does research via Google and Wikipedia, and hasn't a clue how unreliable those sources are.
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Jimaz
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Post Number: 2701
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Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For preservation of archives, digitization is crucial.

Granted, with digitization, some microscopic accuracy is initially sacrificed but for a very good reason. Even acid-free paper will decay over time, however whenever a digitized document is copied, any sub-half-bit-level degradation is automatically rounded (corrected) to the nearest bit. It must be copied on a regular schedule to continually restore the first digitized copy but copying the analog instead would progressively and irretrievably degrade the information over time.

At some point in the distant future, historians will have access only to our digitized documents which have been restored in this way. They may be aware of mythical analog originals but will regret the inaccessibility of that part of their history.

Project Gutenberg

Google Books

I myself prefer a good original analog hardcopy but future historians will not have that luxury.

(Message edited by Jimaz on July 19, 2007)
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 4710
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Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Off topic: Open Content Alliance may give Google a run for its money in a big way.

http://slashdot.org/articles/0 7/07/20/193243.shtml

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