  Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 250 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have heard this idea casually discussed before in regards to Detroit, but here is an example of a city on a precipice of trying this in practice: Youngstown, Ohio. Apparently, they have lost half of their population, and are seriously considering taking areas "off the grid" that are completely vacant. Here is the link to the story - it has a short text bit, but it is an audio story. http://www.npr.org/templates/s tory/story.php?storyId=1202641 2 | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 358 Registered: 01-2004 |
What areas of Detroit are completely abandoned? Are there any? I know there are some with every few people, but I can't think of any that are barren...however, small parcels yes, but I am talking neighborhoods or large tracks of land. (Message edited by tkelly1986 on July 17, 2007) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3241 Registered: 02-2005 |
There may actually be a few blocks with zero population on the far east side. Several Brush Park blocks had little more than one operating household, if any, back in the 80s-90s. There are others. | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 361 Registered: 01-2004 |
What would it take to actually get something like this going in Detroit? | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2005 |
competent leadership. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1155 Registered: 04-2006 |
I dunno much about how Youngstown is populated, but in Detroit some of the most hollowed out areas are in prime locations relative to downtown. So if/when downtown ever becomes the true CBD of the area, these areas would be prime places for development... again. | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 106 Registered: 04-2007 |
Taking away is only a temporary soloution. People would lose city services and any the land would never see development again. Sounds like a "give up on succeeding" plan to me. Count your losses and move on. Stop trying. | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 138 Registered: 10-2005 |
...or.. maybe Detroit should stop throwing good money after bad? | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 373 Registered: 11-2006 |
I don't think this is such a great idea for Detroit. Like said earlier the Detroit neighborhoods that are empty are too close to downtown to cut off. There is just no reason to do this to our city. | ||
Revaldullton Member Username: Revaldullton Post Number: 355 Registered: 07-2007 |
East Side from the Packard to Belle Isle and around to the epicenter is prime for redevelopment. If only there was something that could be done to change the world's outlook on the city to get people and money pouring in. A vigorous ad campaign world wide maybe? the good rev | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 241 Registered: 05-2006 |
quote: See below:  quote: We should not stop trying, but we have been trying to stop population loss since the 1950's and it hasn't worked. We need a new plan. We need to save what we can and work with areas that have a chance of success instead of spreading out investment over a wide area and in areas where the investment has no chance of success. I would love to wave a magic wand to bring Detroit back to the "Paris of the Midwest", but I don't have such a magic wand. The Shrinking Cities approach is an approach based on pragmatism. We are not going to be a city of 2 million again and time soon and we need to adjust our infrastructure accordingly. The city can no longer afford to support neighborhoods whose tax structures do not provide the necessary revenue. Why would the land never see development again? We would convert brownfields to greenfields that would be more attractive to developers. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1159 Registered: 04-2006 |
^What about a brownfield turned greenfield would be more attractive to a developer? The issue I have with this idea is that the reasons for the population loss are not being addressed. Honestly, I don't really care what happens to Youngstown, which is why I have no real feelings about what the planner does there. I do care about Detroit, and I would rather see more effort put into an honest review of what caused the mass exodus to begin back in the 1950s. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6223 Registered: 02-2004 |
I can't wait to se Youngstown OH. become a instant ghost town. Nobody wants to live there anymore. So does Toledo, Cincinatti, and Cleveland. Most folks in Ohio are hitting Columbus for that's where the action is. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 242 Registered: 05-2006 |
quote: Everything! The problem is that developers want "easy in and easy out". They want to come in and have a blank slate where they can start to develop. They don't want to deal with consolidating parcels and wading through the paperwork. They don't want to have to tear things down and the hassle of permits, etc. that that would take. These are some of the reasons why developments get bogged down and the developers eventually go to Brighton where an empty field awaits them. No hassles. quote: That's fine. Shrinking a city doesn't mean that all other development stops. It is one way of dealing with the problems, but it is not a panacea or the only thing that can be done. Actually, by "shrinking" certain parts of the city, you can concentrate more intently on the areas that you can save. "Addressing the reasons for population loss" sound great on paper, but how do you suppose that will happen? Get Microsoft to move their headquarters downtown? Not likely! We need to have a way to deal with our current reality instead of pie-in-the-sky wishes about a brighter tomorrow. The truth is that the Michigan economy and Detroit will take a considerable amount of time to recover. Time that we do not have to waste on unsalvagable neighborhoods. What are the reasons for population loss? Maybe racism, maybe the decline of the auto industry, maybe the bad reputation that Detroit has? Do you practically see these things ending in the next 10-20 years? If not, then we need a plan "B"! | ||
Digitaldom Member Username: Digitaldom Post Number: 647 Registered: 08-2004 |
Drive along Lodge Freeway and notice all the burned out houses.. i counted AT least 7.. YES THIS IS RECENT! I just drove by there on my way home from Dearborn TONIGHT.. I couldn't BELIEVE how many vacant lots.. Take lodge to the Davidson.. YEAH I KNOW it's highland park.. (blah blah blah).. Look right at davidson freeway near I-75.. Vacant lots everywhere.. Youngstowns plan was NOT just shutting down neighborhoods.. It was ALSO forcing even the non-profits to locate all the new housing projects in one location..Not all over the city.. to spur commercial development.. They left that portion out of the report.. BTW would Highland park just give up and become part of Detroit already? Seriously! Keep the name but become part of Detroit.. They failed with Police, fire and city services.. Detroit can at least get some tax revnue from that area (not much).. AND include that area in there plan to redevelop Detroit as a whole.. AND include total police coverage through the city.. I suspect it's difficult for police to DRIVE around Highland park to patrol the city.. Just my thoughts.. On top of that.. The fire department and the surround area would be helped big time by a fire department station in Highland park... Has this been proposed in HighLand park? Are the residents against it? Please inform? Thanx, Dan | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1172 Registered: 04-2006 |
"What are the reasons for population loss? Maybe racism, maybe the decline of the auto industry, maybe the bad reputation that Detroit has? Do you practically see these things ending in the next 10-20 years?" IMO, it isn't really convenient to live in the CoD. What does the city provide that the surrounding suburbs do not? Transit is not cheap (i.e. you essentially must own a car). Mass transit is not efficient and next to non-existent. Few to no services, little to no access to even basic shopping needs. Unaffordable property taxes and fluctuating property values. It's really a quality of life thing and the crime rate is just a small part of it. Developers are cherry picking over the CoD because it provides no stability. What is the point in living in a city if it isn't convenient to be there? That's why Detroit has been and is continuing to lose its population. This plan might make it look a little prettier in the short term, but it does nothing to solve the problem... and I'll bet it certainly won't spur development. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 379 Registered: 11-2006 |
All a plan like this does is removes the urban fabric that makes Detroit, Detroit. By do mass reversions to nature you are removing the buildings, and places that are draws to redevelopment. Anyone can live in a city full of cookie cutter houses and office parks, but you would be hard pressed to find the amount, quality, and diversity of architecture in Detroit. From Classical to Art Deco and Gothic Revival its all here and if you remove it we just become another office park. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1081 Registered: 11-2003 |
Iheartthed wrote, "I would rather see more effort put into an honest review of what caused the mass exodus to begin back in the 1950s." One of the best sources is Thomas J. Sugrue's book, "The Origins of the Urban Crisis: Race and Inequality in Postwar Detroit." 6nois-- I think people are talking about taking completely demolished blocks off-line, not relocating people. Relocation would be more of a headache than it's worth. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 732 Registered: 02-2007 |
Ithica has approached immigrants (maybe I saw this on this forum)... to come in and rebuild a city on the decline....why not try to attract refuges from a diverse regions of the world and have them come to Detroit? Maybe too simple of a solution...but it could be an interesting idea..a new shot of cultural life....they had folks from the Sudan to Bosnia, Viet Nam to Pakistan...think of the new foods and markets... someone would have to let go of the greed and develop micro-lending opportunities... | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 385 Registered: 11-2006 |
There is a great documentary on gentrification at Thomas Video. Flag wars is about gay couples moving into and renovating homes in a mostly black historical district in Columbus Ohio. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1177 Registered: 10-2003 |
"One of the best sources is Thomas J. Sugrue's book, "The Origins of the Urban Crisis: Race and Inequality in Postwar Detroit." Have it, read it, loved it. Everyone interested in Detroit should read this book. | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 758 Registered: 04-2007 |
I've brought this up before, and it may sound crazy, but what do you guys think of urban homesteading? Say the city gives you land for free if you'll improve a parcel and stay there for say, twenty years? Sort of like what still gets done in Alaska. Just throwing it out there. |
