Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve
Post Number: 412 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 6:20 pm: | |
I borrowed this quote from a sports board: "What about Freeman Hendrix for president. He is the director of governmental affairs and an alum. If he was willing to clean up the mess that was Detroit city government then why not let him do it at EMU? Because the City of Detroit is in less turmoil than EMU?" EMU is in turmoil as the Pres was let go today by the board of regents having to do with the way the university handled the murder on campus last December. |
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm
Post Number: 881 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 7:07 pm: | |
Took out Vice President of Student Affairs James Vick and Public Safety Director Cindy Hall, too. The story made NPR this morning, and a wire story showed up in my local paper this afternoon. The University itself is apparently guilty of violating The Cleary Act in their handling of the case. I was a bit suprised with NPR. While discussing the whole mess, there were a couple of references to the Virginia Tech shootings, but no mention of the 1967/1970 "Michigan Murders". |
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle
Post Number: 138 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 7:10 pm: | |
It was on CNN also |
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 1317 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 8:28 pm: | |
Seems EMU has had problems for years. Not just a murder but big money problems and image issues and what not. |
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 1318 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 8:29 pm: | |
http://www.emich.edu/univcomm/ releases/071607president.html |
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 1319 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 8:31 pm: | |
A day just full of good news over there: "EMU takes budgetary action to navigate uncertain economic conditions: The Eastern Michigan University Board of Regents today approved a university budget for 2007-08 that includes significant budget cuts and keeps its tuition and fees increase to 8 percent." http://www.emich.edu/univcomm/ releases/071607budget.html |
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248
Post Number: 732 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 8:49 pm: | |
According to news reports, "EMU has a history of underreporting sexual assaults in 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005." hmmmmm...... |
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 1322 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 8:53 pm: | |
a trend? |
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster
Post Number: 18 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 8:58 pm: | |
I am probably biased as a WSU alumnus, but Michigan has a ton of state universities it has to fund. Only "the Big Three" are post-bacc, research universities. What the hell do they have at EMU besides sexual assaults that one can't get from Oakland, Western, Northern, SVSU, GVSU, FSU, whatever... why are we wasting our money on these clowns? |
Goblue Member Username: Goblue
Post Number: 150 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:41 pm: | |
Sorry Detmstr...not exactly sure what you believe to be the "Big Three"...I suspect U-M, MSU and WSU...but they are not the only post-bacc, research universities in MI...add WMU to that list...WSU has faded seriously in the last three decades...along with Detroit. |
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster
Post Number: 20 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 12:00 am: | |
http://www.urcmich.org/who/ http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0305/SUB/70302071&SearchID=732 74044913274 "Gov. Jennifer Granholm's budget for the upcoming fiscal year includes a proposal that the state's three research universities - the University of Michigan, Michigan State University and Wayne State..." -Detroit Free Press, March 16, 2006 They are also the only medical schools in the state. http://gradschool.about.com/li brary/medical/blmedmichigan.ht m Huh, and where did I come up with my silly ideas? Oh by the way, wish you'd put your money where your mouth is with your claim that WSU has "faded seriously in the last three decades". Just asking for some sort of source. Despite your name, I'm guessing you didn't graduate from the said school. |
Goblue Member Username: Goblue
Post Number: 151 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 12:34 am: | |
Dtr: You guessed wrong...U-M grad degree '65! Attended WSU for one freshman semester...it was an inferior school even back then. |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1152 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 12:45 am: | |
Deteamster--that article is wrong. Flat out. WMU has been a Carnegie Research university for years. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4851 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 2:03 am: | |
Goblue, you don't get back to Michigan much from Arizona, do you? WSU is a much better school than when I attended it back in the early 70's for 1 year. I went on to work at UofM for 4 years, and you should see all the people who work for UofM (not the professors) stuck in a 1960's time warp. It's a hoot! |
Scottr Member Username: Scottr
Post Number: 614 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 2:15 am: | |
Actually, you're both right, in a way. The 'Big Three' are Very High Research Universities, while WMU, along with Michigan Tech, are a step down, as High Research Universities. The article didn't specify 'very high research', but there clearly is a distinction between them. For a fuller comparison: UofM-AA - RU/VH MSU - RU/VH WSU - RU/VH WMU - RU/H MTU - RU/H CMU - DRU EMU - Master's L NMU - Master's L SVSU - Master's L GVSU - Master's L FSU - Master's M Source: http://www.carnegiefoundation. org/classifications/index.asp? key=782 Explanation of what all that means: http://www.carnegiefoundation. org/classifications/index.asp? key=791 |
Scottr Member Username: Scottr
Post Number: 615 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 2:18 am: | |
btw, i attended WMU - i was actually disappointed to see that the school was in fact only a high research school. Did it drop during the past few years? I think they changed it all recently, because i remember them specifically saying WMU was the only Doctoral I university in Michigan. I have no clue what that meant, particularly since the groupings seem to be different now, but it sounded good. |
Slider Member Username: Slider
Post Number: 12 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 1:30 pm: | |
"What the hell do they have at EMU besides sexual assaults that one can't get from Oakland, Western, Northern, SVSU, GVSU, FSU, whatever... why are we wasting our money on these clowns?" Not that I'm defending what happened, or EMU politics, but EMU does have one of the most respected masters programs in Historic Preservation in the country. Those who have been fortunate enough to find employment in Michigan upon graduation have been invaluable in protecting our historic structures. |
Goblue Member Username: Goblue
Post Number: 153 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 4:35 pm: | |
Gistok: There is no doubt that AA is in a '60's time warp. That may be why its such a great place to live...you can actually walk down Main Street at midnight without a thought of being mugged...I've often said that if AA were in a warmer climate I'd move back there in a minute...lived there for a decade mid'70's-mid'80's...the only place I've ever found like it is San Luis Obispo, CA...I've heard that Ashland, OR is similar...gonna take a look at it one of these days. AA is in some trouble these days though...I think friends there told me maybe a year ago that Pfizer cut something like a thousand jobs that had an average salary of $85K...that's a heavy hit even for a town like AA. I do get back to MI on a fairly regular basis...grandkids in Kzoo...in-laws in central IN...have a sister in GPW...I generally avoid Detroit although the memories flood back through these posts...my parents are buried in Gethsemane Cemetary but its too dangerous to visit their graves without self-protection...and too much trouble to transport a Glock...my nephew and I flew in for a couple of games at Tiger Stadium at the end of its last year and visited the graves but he's with a federal security agency and can travel with his...I have close friends living in AA and Kzoo...so I keep in pretty close contact with the happenings of the state...read the Freep online plus receive alumni monthly newsletters from WMU and U-M. All in all it looks like the state's in trouble and Detroit is in a death spiral...very sad to see. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 9595 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 4:38 pm: | |
quote:...I generally avoid Detroit although the memories flood back through these posts...my parents are buried in Gethsemane Cemetary but its too dangerous to visit their graves without self-protection...and too much trouble to transport a Glock...my nephew and I flew in for a couple of games at Tiger Stadium at the end of its last year and visited the graves but he's with a federal security agency and can travel with his You do realize that you come off as a complete prick when you make comments like that on a board where many of the people live in the city. |
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336
Post Number: 661 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 4:40 pm: | |
I think Carnegie changed their classifications again, changing from research - intensive/extensive as the highest to the ru/h and ru/vh . Wayne State has increased the number of doctoral candidates and degrees granted as well as the amount of grant money received, so I have no idea where GoBlue is getting his notions. I suspect he is simply one of those "i will hate anything to do with detroit till I die" types |
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 1138 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 4:43 pm: | |
Q: How do you tell someone went to UofM? A: They'll tell you within 5 minutes of meeting them. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3251 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 4:49 pm: | |
Yeah, Goblue, what's the deal? I'm a current Umicher. A2 has all the fundamentals of a good place to live. But, as a famous blog about the city correctly points out, it is over-rated, and also has on ongoing identity crisis over whether it wants to go in an urban or suburban direction. After three years here, I've had my taste, and I want to move Detroit. I'm not alone in this. There are alot of future city-dwellers (successful ones at that) who go through UM; A2 gives them a taste of what they want, and certainly covers all the neccesary bases with bars, clubs, and places to hang out, but many people want someplace a little bigger. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3252 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 4:51 pm: | |
Regarding EMU, I don't know much about it, but I do like downtown Ypsi. The buildings and housing stock really mirrors Ann Arbor when you look at it without the rose-colored, A2-bias glasses. Man I keep looking back at your posts Goblue and you are one misinformed UM alum. Wayne is the number 3 school in the state and beats MSU in terms of getting a respected degree at a lower price. Like you, I went to Wayne for a short time (a year). NOT an inferior school. I admire most of the faculty there as much as I respect my faculty at UM. There are a lot of average Joes, but a lot of really smart people too in the student body. My complaints are simply based on the nasty academic buildings like State Hall, the ugly student center, and the fact that it is too much of a commuter school. It is much more of a place to be and a place to live than even three years ago when I was there. Its future is bright, but its past is certainly nothing to sneer at. (Message edited by mackinaw on July 17, 2007) |
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248
Post Number: 735 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 4:55 pm: | |
Amen Rb336. Some idiots are so small minded in that they don't feel anything URBAN can be high quality. As a grad student, I've had a very positive experience with WSU and am currently interviewing with several large, prominent corporations for good paying positions. Nothing of substance came from my undergraduate degree that I received from a SUBURBAN school because those are a dime a dozen. Employers look for the degrees and the majors - NOT what city your school is in. Which means you will get more job offers with a BA in Engineering from Wayne State than a PhD in History from Yale. |
English Member Username: English
Post Number: 541 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 7:36 pm: | |
My master's degree is from Wayne State. I'm working on my Ph.D at Michigan and have been at the top of my cohort since started in the rate of completing my quals. I love Wayne State, and if there was a prayer of getting hired there after I defend, I'd move back to Midtown in a heartbeat. EMU? Don't know much about it. Just have some professor friends who are miffed by conditions... but seems like a change is coming. Good for them. |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 2092 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 8:36 pm: | |
quote:...my parents are buried in Gethsemane Cemetary but its too dangerous to visit their graves without self-protection Are you kidding? I've been to see family graves in several Detroit cemeteries and never once felt in danger. Nobody goes there except other people visiting relatives. They are not a hot bed of crime. |
Goblue Member Username: Goblue
Post Number: 155 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 4:21 pm: | |
Pam: I hope you'll be careful...cemetaries in cities all over the country are hot spots...the locations tend to be isolated and the people who visit tend to be older, alone and thus easy targets. Some time in the early '90's I took my mother to visit my dad's grave in Gethsemane...I noticed a group of about a 6-8 young whatevers gathered maybe 100 yards away from the grave...as we visited and cleaned the marker they gradually began drifting in our direction. I got her into our car that was parked very nearby and we got the hell out of there. In the mid '90's in Kalamazoo I was out on my bike one day and on a whim rode up into a neighborhood very wooded cemetary...and into some type of activity with two cars of young people who were milling about...there was some immediate and excited pointing at me...I stood on the pedals and took off across the grass to an exit. I talked to a high ranking KPD friend later about it...he told me the info about cemetaries countrywide...said it was likely some type of drug deal...and urge me to "be damned careful." Those experiences are the source of my comments. Jt1: I regret that my comments offended you. They were my personal opinions. However, I would urge you to consider whether your hostile personalized expression lacking a modicum of civility is a symptom of your anonymity on the net...a characteristic of your personality...or...a measure of the problems of Detroit and our society at large...in that common courtesy and civility during discussions is so uncommon. Others: Since the discussion initially was regarding EMU, WSU, U-M, etc...I'm happy to point out that my comments about WSU are based on a sample of one...my personal miserable experience at WSU as a freshman...hardly a scientific sample. Of course...each of the universities has outstanding colleges within them...EMU, WMU, WSU really are more regional schools...M and MSU would fall into the national category...it was some years back that WMU topped WSU in grants obtained...which is often used as a measure of excellence...it only happened one year and likely was a function of a major grant or two which shot the school to a higher position. Another measure is the U.S. News & World Report annual rankings...U-M is generally found in the top levels of virtually every category...MSU gets into the top sometimes...I don't know that I've ever seen WSU on any of the lists...the same would be true for WMU, EMU and the other state or regional level schools. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3268 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 4:37 pm: | |
I think Wayne has a serious respect problem in national rankings that arises mostly from its location. It's a shame. On the other hand, I have said many times on this forum that they could do themselves a huge favor by increasing admission standards and set a higher median GPA/ACT for incoming classes. I was publicly scolded by a member of the WSU administration when I suggested this in a public forum, and this left me sour. They say they have a commitment to be an "open" school available especially to people in the city. They say it is Wayne's role. I'm sorry, but I don't see how expecting a higher GPA out of applicants compromises Wayne's role in the city, or its accessibility for Detroit students relative to non-Detroit students. Like I said, Wayne has a great faculty and infrastructure, and is an asset to Detroit that we can be proud of. I am turned off, though, by a) the lack of out-of-state marketing b) the commensurate lack of marketing and effort in making Wayne a residential place and not a commuter campus. They built a some new dorms, but they really needed to hype them and midtown in general much more. c) the attitude among many in the university brass that Wayne must be accessible rather than presitigious, and that those two ideals cannot be compatible (as I just described). |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1158 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 4:48 pm: | |
quote:U.S. News & World Report's annual ranking of American colleges and universities includes WMU as one of the nation's top-100 public universities. Princeton Review included Western on its 'best Midwestern colleges' list for two years in a row. The University also had six Fulbright Scholars, the most of any school in the state of Michigan in 2006 I have no illusions about putting WMU on the same map as UM, but come on now Goblue. WMU (and I'm sure the same could be said about EMU) is hardly the community college you're making it out to be. (Message edited by focusonthed on July 18, 2007) |
Goblue Member Username: Goblue
Post Number: 157 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 4:54 pm: | |
Mackinaw: Well stated...although that I wouldn't agree that WSU's ranking problems are due to its location...the Univ. of Chicago doesn't have a problem in rankings despite its godawful location...nor does Johns Hopkins in the center of Baltimore...The University of Pennsylvania is deep in Philadelphia...Cambridge is not a garden spot but Harvard is respected...there are many others. Your observations about admissions are sad but true at so many schools...not too many years ago WMU had open admissions to one of its doc programs...all you needed was a checkbook...until too many students couldn't pass their comprehensive exams and started to sue. I won't even launch into admission standards or lack thereof for international students...the profit margin for internationals is extremely high at all universities. Higher education too often any more is about credit hour production using adjuncts or GA's paid at around $1500-$2000 per class...that breaks down to somewhere around $16-$22 per hour of work. |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1159 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 4:56 pm: | |
If you think University of Chicago's location is "godawful" I hereby revoke any credibility I lent you. (Message edited by focusonthed on July 18, 2007) |
Goblue Member Username: Goblue
Post Number: 158 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 4:57 pm: | |
Focus: Wow...somewhere I misstated...all I meant to say is that WMU isn't a top tier school...certainly didn't mean to indicate that I thought it was community college level...especially since two of my degrees are from WMU. Its a very good regional school. |
Goblue Member Username: Goblue
Post Number: 159 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 5:00 pm: | |
Focus: Well...my son did his inital graduate work at Chicago...I worried about him all the time he was there...the campus is a really nice place...but you don't have to go far from it to very quickly be deep in dangerous neighborhoods...at least that was true in the late 80's...I suppose it could have changed...I haven't been back in that part of Chicago since that time. |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1160 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 5:05 pm: | |
Many things have changed in many cities since the 80s. However, there are still dangerous neighborhoods in the vicinity of UofC, but they are not any neighborhoods that a "minding his own business" student would find himself in. =) Hell, in the early 80s, the entire city of Chicago was pretty unremarkable. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3273 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 5:33 pm: | |
Goblue, your examples are all good, but actually not applicable to my point. I should specify: Wayne loses respect simply because it is in Detroit. Wayne is actually in one of Detroit's safe and, now, quickly redeveloping areas. In a few years you could say its location will ne just as good as Penn's, and possibly better than UChicago's. Both of those are beautiful schools surrounded by tough 'hoods-- however both are among the best schools in the world. Penn is ivy league and Chicago effectively is as well, so you can't compare the effect their location has on them to the effect location has on WSU. So I was not saying that Wayne's neighborhood brings it down-- i doubt the rankings experts would care to look into the facts on Midtown anyway. It's just that Wayne is in the D and it gets docked because of that. |
Goblue Member Username: Goblue
Post Number: 160 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 5:39 pm: | |
Mackinaw: I see your point...I misunderstood...Chicago, Baltimore and even Philly all have better PR departments than Detroit...and you're right...politics plays a part in all such rankings. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3274 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 6:03 pm: | |
But, if we could lift the stigma, we could see that the Wayne's neighborhood is similar to Penn. It's not quite as beautiful-- Penn is spectacular and has a ton of great architecture--but both have reasonably vibrant and intact neighborhoods with lots of young residents, both are a couple miles from each city's respective downtown, both have access to cultural attractions (with places like the DIA and DSO very close at hand for WSU), and both have blighted areas within a mile of campus. Penn deserves to be #7 in US news. It is Ivy league and an outstanding school. It's location does not have a stigma attached that brings it down to an inappropriate ranking like 15 or 20(in fact I think Philly strengthens it as a good place to go). But Wayne being in the 4th tier is total disrespect. It should be tier 3 at least, ranked on the list of top schools maybe, but not with the Tier 4 bottom feeders. Tell me that isn't a symptom of a stigma. US News people are probably too scared to come and visit. |
Yvette248 Member Username: Yvette248
Post Number: 745 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:25 am: | |
All of these people who got fired also got a golden parachute. To a tune of a half million bucks. Oughta be a law that if you get fired for breaking the law, your contract is cancelled. No severance pay! |
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy
Post Number: 66 Registered: 04-2007
| Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 11:08 am: | |
U-M, MSU, WSU, WMU, and Michigan Tech are all usually listed as top-500 universities worldwide, and CCS (across the street from Wayne), is a top-10-worldwide design school. Eastern has only recently begun to move into the doctoral-granting category, and is one of the oldest and most respected education schools in the country, turning out more teachers than any other school in the U.S. |
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve
Post Number: 416 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 1:29 pm: | |
Quote (Mackinaw): "On the other hand, I have said many times on this forum that they could do themselves a huge favor by increasing admission standards and set a higher median GPA/ACT for incoming classes. I was publicly scolded by a member of the WSU administration when I suggested this in a public forum, and this left me sour. They say they have a commitment to be an "open" school available especially to people in the city. They say it is Wayne's role. I'm sorry, but I don't see how expecting a higher GPA out of applicants compromises Wayne's role in the city, or its accessibility for Detroit students relative to non-Detroit students." ********* I'm going to repeat something I suggested a while ago in a different thread: I think WSU is actually two universities wrapped into one. 1). Urban, undergraduate school with many of the 'open admision' type considerations which aren't found at Penn, Chicago, etc. (that is one mission) 2). Graduate and professional schools which are highly selective in their admission policies (that is another mission). I do have an undergraduate degree from Wayne but it was so many years ago that I can not speak to current admission policies (I rely on posters on this board for that info). I do remember, though, that when I was thinking of grad school (not right after undergrad) that Wayne was pretty selective in the area I wanted to study. |
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve
Post Number: 417 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 1:37 pm: | |
I might clarify: Many universities are VERY selective at BOTH the undergrad and graduate levels. Some universities are NOT selective at BOTH the undergrad and graduate levels. Wayne doesn't seem to fit EITHER paradigm (best I can tell). |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3282 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 1:48 pm: | |
You paint the picture of what Wayne is very well. I just think that it is all shades of gray and ratcheting up the undergrad end of things would earn them the top 100 ranking they deserve. This matters in how well you attract qualified applicants from places outside metro Detroit. Wayne does have selective grad schools, yet in spite of this, the law school-- which has a median LSAT of 156 (70th percentile) and median incoming GPA of 3.5-- has dropped from top 100 to tier 3 to a highly undeserved tier 4. And this really matters because law is based on prestige, to a good extent. The perception of Wayne worries me. I think they need to pull a few strings and brush up in a couple areas in order to overcome the 'D' stigma. Of course, as Detroit redevelops further in the coming decade, things may take care of themselves. |