 
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 606
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 12:20 pm: |    |
EX, come to Manhattan or one of the other boroughs in the city. Trust me, you probably will never again run into anyone homophobic or remotely racist.
Its a pretty decent place to live.
You can still get some pretty decent prices on condos or rentals in the city.
the good rev
(Message edited by revaldullton on August 02, 2007) |
Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner
Post Number: 380
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 1:18 pm: | |
Thanks Rev, but Manhattan (NYC in general) is way out of my price range. I would love to live in the village!! |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 388
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 1:22 pm: | |
Now, I have no wish to dwell in the past, but to make a better future for all people, people have to understand the effects of the past and not trivialize them and just say, "Hey, get over it and just move on."
---------------------------
60 years ago, 6 million , repeat 6 MILLION people were exterminated. Catholics, Jews and GAYS. They were treated worse than slaves, for slaves were fed and housed, jews were gassed. GASSED. No one cared whether they lived and died in the concentration camps or not. The Jewish community were being extinguished
Fast forward to 2007. Jews excel in literally every business they do. Retail, Banking, they own Hollywood, news media, housing, clothing and on and on and on.....Get it?
Gays are on the higher ends of education and professional workers. Not all, but many gays are educated and have excelled. Gays are nt allowed to marry, cant adopt, and have many many rights taken from them, but again, they excel, just like the jews.......
So, some one tell me why the relatives of ancestors who were slaves back in the 1800s are still whining and complaining when jews and gays have had much more current attrocities towards their groups in more current times and to this day, still do? |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 609
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 1:25 pm: | |
Ex,
I dont know what type of work you do but NYC wages are a bit different than other cities and you can always find a room mate to share a place.
If not in the village then another area.
Just a thought . If you change your mind and you may need some insight as to finding work or a place just let me know.
the good rev |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 610
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 1:31 pm: | |
Jane,
Good Point, but you know the naitionalists[?]will come back at you with something to prove why they are still being held down and try to distort their message through written eloquence .
I guess thats what these mongers call themselves now.
the good rev |
Karl
Member
Username: Karl
Post Number: 9076
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 1:52 pm: | |
Jane, I'll be looking forward to hearing your POV on the prez of Iran as he currently states:
1. Kill all Jews
2. Wipe Israel off the map
3. All of what you described above never happened.
And Nancy Pelosi runs over there to "sit and talk" against the wishes of our President. |
Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner
Post Number: 381
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 2:35 pm: | |
Yea Jane I knew you were gonna get bit in the ass for that last post although it is very true. Karl as far as Nancy Pelosi going over to GW's head and talking with the president of Iran. I do NOT agree with that (as bad as i hate GW - and I do HATE him) Someone has to talk to these people! They are not going to go away just because we refuse to talk to them. Karl your absolutely right about your three statements. They believe EXCATLY that! The do NOT believe in Israels right to exist. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3593
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 2:42 pm: | |
Stalin killed far more than Hitler gets (credit? or) blame for. The minimum estimate is 3 million, with 60 million being the maximum deaths attributed to his regime. The actual, researched figure, though, is probably somewhere between 20 to 30 million. |
Gibran
Member
Username: Gibran
Post Number: 813
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 2:52 pm: | |
Mao, 30 million
Stalin 20-30 million
Hitler 6 million
Turkey Armenians Hundreds of thousands...
Cambodia: millions
Africa, Palestine genocide and later ethnic cleansing
Native Americans and Slavery here.
the lists go on and on....who owns suffering?
WE ALL DO....
when there is injustice or inhumanity... we need to confront it...
Iran is a rogue state that needs confrontation...
so lets work on isolation and helping bring peace around it...we openned a can of worms by being engulfed in Iraq...by not finding a viable peace in the middle-east and by funding foriegn countries that don't follow basic human rights...We have to set the standards, not perpetuate the problem. |
Public_servant
Member
Username: Public_servant
Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 3:08 pm: | |
This discussion is rather frustrating, I must say. I have been an observer on DY for some time now and have seen the need for a dialogue on race brewing for quite a while. I think it can be a healthy thing for all involved, when everyone is willing to have an open mind and admit that their perspective is just that. I have felt the frustrations of many of the African American contributors who I'm sure are not looking for any gain for themselves, but are looking to bridge an apparent gap.
Like many other educated blacks, I too clearly see the impact of several centuries of degradation of a group people based on race. This is not a black issue, it is an American issue. This is an issue that only started with slavery, but continues to this day. No one is saying that one holocaust is worse than another. I am simply saying that most individuals miss the fact that slavery in the U.S. was unlike any form before it. It was inhumane, it treated human beings like animals, and it stole any identity that those enslaved could have possibly had. And unlike other countries, this country was formed on the premise that human rights are inalienable and that all humans were created equally. The same founders of this country felt it not hypocrisy that they owned slaves. Those of you, whose family migrated here, did so because of this promise. While at the same time blacks were denied access to what everyone else believed was innate. If no one else is saying it, I’m saying it, we need everyone’s help because this is everyone’s problem. I don’t have to go into the numbers because we all are familiar with them. Anyone who says that racism isn’t a major cause of the current state of Black America is not being honest with themselves. And since when is it racist to point out racism? Do we call women who point out sexist behavior in men sexist? Do we look to men as being the authority on what is and is not sexist? This is not to say that people based on their skin color have or do not have value adding commentary. It’s more of a self check. I know I have to check myself when a woman is disturbed by an action I take. That’s if I care.
I apologize for being long winded. Just like many others on this forum, race and this region are subjects that I am passionate about. The only way for us to move forward is by finding some closure. It’s like when you’re married, and the same argument comes up over and over again. In your mind it’s settled and you are bothered by the fact that your spouse keeps bringing it up. That only means that it’s not settled. You all said your piece but didn’t come to any agreement, same here. Whether you all know it or not, we’re like family, we’re all in the same boat. If the boat sinks, we all die.
As far as reparations go, here is a simple solution. It’s no panacea, but it’s a start. Many inner city youth do not have the support system that pushes them for success. In the absence of that support system, lets create boarding schools for the most at risk youth, where they can be taken out of their toxic environment and placed in one that will nurture them to become leaders. For the rest of the inner city youth give all who graduate high school free tuition room in board for either 4yr university or trade school. With this scholarship comes strings:
1. Must graduate within 6yrs or all monies are due back.
2. Must volunteer with inner city youth as mentor.
3. This program will have a twenty year max. |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 614
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 3:26 pm: | |
Hey Public Servant,
Your post is a good one but I still need to add that the problem with these discussions is not racism in America.
We know this exists to a certain level and we know what black people have been through in this country.
The problem on this board is these few yahoos are constantly blaming white people for every single damn problem they have instead of laying the blame where the credit is due.
That is the problem.
on the reperations issue, Im sorry, but until reperations are paid to me from people of black skin for what they did to my people I cant condone it in the least.
You are asking people to pay for something they have/had nothing to do with.
Sorry, I would'nt go after anyone innocent of anything for reperations, why should the nationalist movement try this silliness?
Why do they not go after Africa for reperations?Or the Arab nations? Why only white people and this country?
If you are so adament about doing the right thing then do the right thing.
Stop being one sided and showing double standards.
Sure, I have no problem helping anyone, wanna raise my taxes a bit to help educate the children, by all means do so. But dont just raise mine because Im offering out of the kindness of my heart to help, not because I benefit in any way shape or form from slavery or racism here in the states because I do not. And don't call it reperations, call it exactly what it is.
Americans helping their own.
the good rev
the good rev |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 615
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 3:34 pm: | |
Quote:And since when is it racist to point out racism?
Its not, I whole heartedly agree . But, once again, dont just blame one entity for the problems in black america, blame all those involved otherwise, you look racist by ignoring the whole truth.
the good rev |
Public_servant
Member
Username: Public_servant
Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 3:44 pm: | |
I hear you rev. Notice I said it is an American problem. America unlike the individuals who have come and gone still remains. It's an institution that did not keep its promises to all. I believe that we all play a part in it. That is what made me decide to teach. I believe that all Americans who are able should help those who need it, black or white. I appreciate your reply. I don't care what you call it. Like you said it's Americans helping Americans. Notice I didn't limit this program to blacks, I simply said inner city. As you know this country has not had an urban agenda for years. I think we're in the same boat. |
Pmb
Member
Username: Pmb
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 4:02 pm: | |
No guilt, just Responsibility.
From the Rev:
"Im so tired of hearing about racism and slavery. Especially from people like you that have never experienced it."
As a white male who lives in the City of Detroit it is very clear that being white has great privileges. I can go anywhere in Detroit, even in a majority black city. On the other hand, I have watched my sisters and brothers with darker skin than mine get thrown out (sometimes literally) of everything from stores to banks (In Detroit, not even the suburbs!). And before you start, no, they are not homeless or crackheads.
Second, massive disparities across race exist TODAY in economics, education and other measuring bars used to rate quality of life in the USA. There seems to be one of two conclusions from this: the reality of racial discrimination and the reverberations of slavery/Jim Crow, including oppression and internalized oppression (we are only one full generation removed from it); or, a real inferiority of blacks compared to most other ethnic groups in this nation. Now, the second happens to be the viewpoints of white supremacists, which the good rev says he is not. So, my fellow white brother (sorry, an assumption, though I do not know that you are), where else do you begin explaining the problems of such disparities in 2007?
Yes, you acknowledge that people of African ancestry have been through a lot. But you say that in one sentence. Then there are paragraphs distancing yourself (and all white people?) from the responsibility of changing the existing reality, that it is all now "their" fault. You and I cannot change the behaviors/thoughts/experiences of people of color anywhere, because it is not our experience. Why not believe someone who has experienced discrimination? This is a platitude, but we are responsible for changing ourselves and our people, not others. Our job as people with white privilege, it seems to me, is to change the system that relies on some people succeeding for the sake of keeping others out. No guilt, just responsibility. Hope this helps the conversation.
peace |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1196
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 4:05 pm: | |
I am going to guess that this thread will hit 1000 responses before it finally dies. |
Pmb
Member
Username: Pmb
Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 4:12 pm: | |
Maybe Mayor, but this is some of the real stuff holding us back as a region. It's not being addressed in regular public forums. |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2332
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 5:52 pm: | |
Well, Mayor_sekou, this thread will probably surpass 1000. The good rev will add another 500 just by himself. He'll keep repeating that Africans(the Moors I think) mistreated his ancestors so that we African Americans owe him and his people, and then he'll continue to point out that we African Americans should also blame other Africans and Arabs for slavery. He wants us to think that their involvement in slavery was equal to whites involvement in slavery.
What Rev doesn't understand is that after Africans got here Arabs and Africans played no part in the continuation of slavery, Jim Crow, and racism/discrimination towards blacks.
Whites in the South could have ended slavery way before there was a civil war needed to end it. Whites could have allowed blacks the same rights as themselves after slavery. Whites could have done a lot to prevent the negative conditions that developed in the black community. Rev thinks we should just forget and forgive all that and pull ourselves up from our boot straps and overcome all that has happened to us and reverse all that has happen to us in a generation.
Now, I will agree with Rev that personal responsibility in the black community is necessary to begin to improve the black community. However, since most blacks and other minorities live in urban areas, an urban agenda, as Public_servant mentioned, taken up by the federal government is also needed to help blacks overcome the affects of racism and discriminatory practices. More money put into urban schools and jobs for those who want to work is needed to improve the black community.
Unfortunately, whites, like Rev, will complain and say that the government is discriminating against them. Just look at what's happening to affirmative action. For blacks folks it's hard to get a break, but Rev can't see that since Africans kept his ancestors from obtaining wealth that could have been passed down to him so that he doesn't have to rely on his wife to bring home the bacon.
Public_servant, welcome to the forum. Good first post.
Janesback, you don't know who suffered the most among slaves, gays, catholics and jews so your last comment was biased. How do you know how well slaves were fed and housed? How do you know if being gassed is worse than being beaten to death with a whip? No need to make comparisons therefore you should have not brought that into the conversation.
Pmb, if it hasn't happened already, you'll definitely will be chastised by the good rev. How could you as a white person have the nerve to confirm the ramblings of us militants on this forum? Shame on you for seeing our points of view.
(Message edited by royce on August 02, 2007) |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 616
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 6:36 pm: | |
Ok, do you even know what the hell a supremacist is?
Obviuosly not otherwise you would not have called me that. But let me educate you (stylin,mayor,or your girlfriend or whoever you really are this time)
supremacists do not want anyone but their own kind to achieve in life, live with them, dine with them or anything else a normal melting pot includes. Kinda like the same thing you guys want.
They want to be exclusive. Kinda like the Nation of Islam which doesn't allow anyone but blacks, just like their counterpart the klan, does not want anyone non-white.
Get a dictionary.
You have never heard me belittle the fact that black americans have it rough in this country. EVER GOD DAMN IT!
You have also never heard me dismiss white peoples hands in slavery. NEVER>
All I did was educate your uneducated asses on the real truth and that is that AFRICANS AND ARABS were a huge part of it.
I knew you would make a dumb excuse to exclude arabs and africans part in slavery somehow. I told you guys that you would.
I also knew that you would dismiss the Africans part in slavery in Europe. Typical of a racist.
Im glad that you find the slaughter of untold hundreds of millions of Europeans at the hands of Africans dismissable.
Now, my wife has asked me to leave this nonsense alone and as per her wish I will leave you little black supremacists/militants/nationa lists/racists alone to your own mental dilusions.
You can call me whatever you would like to, but the fact remains that my entire family, co-workers,and friends which is a whole hell of a lot of people and %99 of them are black all know the truth about people like you which is why they are all successful and you are here whining and bitching like little children.
You are fooling no one but yourselves and the poor uneducated souls whose minds you poison with racism.
I feel so sorry for you. Your hatred for people will never get you anywhere and if you think it will, then you are severely wrong.
LOWELL, I apologize up front for this post if you may find it offensive in any way but someone needs to teach the uneducated racists the real truth.
the good rev |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 617
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 6:59 pm: | |
Quote:
Pmb, if it hasn't happened already, you'll definitely will be chastised by the good rev. How could you as a white person have the nerve to confirm the ramblings of us militants on this forum? Shame on you for seeing our points of view.
Really, because he is white? hmmmmm.
You ROYCE, are a %100 clear cut piece of trash.
Really you are. No, wait you are an asshole.
Now, report that to Lowell and Im not angry if he deletes my account I have had my say on this tired topic,now gang up this is what you 3-4 assholes on this board want.
All you do is come on this forum and start racist shit with white people so you can feel good about your low life ass selves. Aint that a shame.
Im sorry you can't handle the truth and just whine whine whine and bitch and moan.
I am sorry your lives suck, but this is your own militant racist asses faults. No one else's/
If you spent more time being constructive instead of having your collective heads up each others asses then maybe you would not feel the whole world is against you.
Now take that to the bank my black supremacist friend.
the good rev
(Message edited by revaldullton on August 02, 2007) |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 389
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 7:05 pm: | |
Royce, you stated "Janesback, you don't know who suffered the most among slaves, gays, catholics and jews so your last comment was biased. How do you know how well slaves were fed and housed?"
-----------------------
Royce, Look at the railroad builders in this country, the Irish and the Chinese. Slaves were an investment, if an Irishman or Chinaman died while building the railroads, just toss em to the side and replace him with another.
The Irish literally built the canal systems in La, yet its not rehashed daily in their lives.
Slaves were bought, people paid money and werent going to let their investment die . Too much money invested. Let a Chinaman or Irishman die, he will be replaced tomorrow. Slaves cost money, Irshmen and Chinese cost nothing....
Remember , NO IRISH OR COLORED ALLOWED.......
Whens the last time you have seen the Irish in here raising hell for those signs?
Also, Royce, I have known survivors of the holocaust, so please, dont go there. Dont assume I dont know what I am talking about, I do
Gay people in this country are discminated against daily. No, they cant adopt, no they cant marry, no they have to hide their sexuality. They used to be imprisioned until the 1940s. They were considered mental cases and hospitalized. Dont go there on what gays dont experience daily. Try telling a black man , he cant marry, or he cant adopt........right, youd have Jesse and Al on a bandwagon in the matter of minutes
Like I stated earlier, blacks arent the only ones who have had their linage used in the slave trade. Greeks were slaves, Egyptians were slaves, Assyirans were slaves, Summarians were slaves........it just goes on and on
Royce, Dafur needs help. Use your energy to save some of the one millions refugees instead of spewing your racism, ok...............Jane
(Message edited by janesback on August 02, 2007) |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1200
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 7:11 pm: | |
Maybe you should listen to your wife and leave intelligent debate to the grown ups. I don’t see this much emotion from a date during a romance movie, you sir are a goddamn drama queen.
I have made a habit of not addressing you since your last little meltdown but yet I notice you continue to mention me at almost every single opportunity. "You Mayor, are a %100 clear cut piece of trash." Really? Why? Because I pointed out how this debate will go on and on until this post has well over 1000 responses, is that it? And that offends you how? That makes me a racist asshole, how? You know what don’t answer that because I am sure you cant and I am positive whatever attempt you make will only serve to confuse me further.
So go ahead stop posting. Spend time with your wife or go browsing youtube for clever video clips ,or whatever it is you do. Because this online posting thing is just not for you. |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 618
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 7:11 pm: | |
wow Jane!
Standing Ovation Babe!
the good rev |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1201
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 7:14 pm: | |
Oh... you edited it. You meant Royce. Okay then you get a reprieve ignore my previous post I might just go ahead and delete it but my point about you being a little too emotional for your own good stands.
And BTW, there is only one Mayor here, me. |
Pussygirl313
Member
Username: Pussygirl313
Post Number: 31
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 7:17 pm: | |
I wonder what Bill Cosby would say about this topic. |
Diehard
Member
Username: Diehard
Post Number: 88
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 7:30 pm: | |
I'm Irish and I want reparations for my ancestors being discriminated against. I'm also female and I want reparations for my great-grandmother being denied the right to vote. I'm also Catholic and ... oh never mind.
Just thought I'd step in for a minute while I'm making more popcorn. Carry on.
(Not to belittle anything said here - this is VERY educational and long overdue.) |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 9:18 pm: | |
Ok...here's mine
The real deal on racism.
I'm only talking to black people here.
Here is why the hard times continue. Blacks need to take the ability to survive all of the things Blacks have and do this...
In no particular order
1.)Trap the money! Stop eating Chinese because the money spent there leaves the/your community. This also goes the same for Korean boutiques and hair supply stores. If you have no money to change your situation you will not be able to change it. Spend money with black people and keep the money in your own community and then it can multiply and improve the community that it is in. Stop allowing the money to be extracted and go elsewhere to build and improve other communities.
2.)Understand that this is a capitalistic country. You need money to do just about anything in this country and as a Black man or woman you are foolish to EVER walk around talking about money is not that important.
3.)A handful of whites came to Africa and bought or captured Africans. I don't care who started the whole slavery thing...Africans, Arabs or Europeans...that is not the point(stay with me). White people came to a continent that had a climate they were not used to. They dealt with it to GET the PROFIT.
Learn from them. Learn to do things that you do not really want to do to GET to where you want to go. African Americans consume so many things that they know nothing about. Electronics for one. Everybody(kids) want the latest "this" or the latest "that" and what black parents need to do is require that they understand how they operate before they are allowed to have "one". I mean the circuit boards and what they are made of and why the new one they want is better. Not just the fact that it is better...but what makes it better and then maybe some of the money could be spent with those blacks who grow up to become engineers and start an electronics company that competes with the Japanese.
4.)Do business with Black businesses.
The reason that Arabs and other nationalities tend to come into Black neighborhoods and make it is because for one thing there is not much competition from other Blacks. In other words, because black people are not "feeding" themselves or supplying themselves with hardware from a local black owned hardware store, other races jump at the opportunity.
5.)Because black people have so much jealousy with each other, They don't do business with the few black owned businesses because most of the time there is some hang up why they don't. "The store is never stocked" or they are afraid the proprietor might get rich off of them. Smart! so make another race rich with your money and watch your capital continue to go elsewhere.
NO...I'm not going to lie...you are not going to have a good time making this change. White people who first came to Africa are not the ones who are enjoying the colossal benefits of the no cost labor that slavery provided. I'm not saying that they enjoyed nothing, but their offspring are the true reapers...I'm saying that black people must start to "legacy think". Leave property to your offspring and teach them what this is all about. Stop having them start at the bottom over and over every generation.
The first generation and sometimes the second does a lot of suffering but after you get the ball going as a race you will move forward.
Blacks are some of the most loyal people to brands and do business with them whether they respect them or not. This must stop! I used Chinese restaurants as examples and I will illustrate my point.
You go into an establishment that does not keep the floors clean and lock themselves behind bulletproof glass and they hire no one form your neighborhood . Yet you continue to patronize them. It's not their fault and it is not white people's fault...this is something that you could simply say, "Hell No! and walk out. But you do not. You do not respect yourselves, why would anyone else? The same thing goes for brand name clothes that do not hire black people, do not operate their business in black communities and most of all are not black. Is a suit better because it is "Italian" made. I doubt it. Do as the Japanese do...put something in front of them they know nothing about and a few minutes later they taking it apart to understand how it works. Tear an Italian suit apart and learn the stitching techniques that make it so much better and then make one yourself and put your name on it and you now have the same quality. Don't stop there..Continue to research and develop new ideas in fashion and become the next icon yourself. Wear your own brand.
I'm not saying that racism does not exist and that it does not cause a lot of problems...I'm saying...take responsibility for what black people can do something about.
White people wanted entertainment...they built Coney Island and Cedar Point. Black people should learn to design and engineer for the purpose of building their own as well.
I hope my points are taken well...
I'm expecting to get clobbered on this...I have my helmet on...
(Message edited by Kaptansolo on August 03, 2007) |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 10:11 pm: | |
I guess what I am saying is that even if white people were to suddenly say, "ok, it's all our fault". What would that really do for black people? |
Karl
Member
Username: Karl
Post Number: 9080
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 10:55 pm: | |
Jane, thanks, I learned alot from your last post.
Mayor, time to take a ride in the Seville and cool off. You are intelligent and may be wise someday, but you are young and too hotheaded (outspoken) now. Chill and listen.
Kaptansolo - forgive me for reading along, I'm white. Excellent points, I hope you'll share more. I hope Mayor (as an aspiring black mayor) is listening. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 885
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 12:37 am: | |
Hey Kaptan- My grandfather would have advised people to go further. Why are you eating in a chinese restaurant at all? Why are you paying someone to cook instead of saving that money and cooking your self? The bottom line is this- America is a country of industry and Americans are industrious. Use that industry to advance toward your goals. Instead of sitting on the sidelines, wasting money on products and services that you don't need, get up and do it yourself.
I see more and more wealthy Americans talking about "simplifying" their lives and getting rid of all the non essential distractions. Shoot, these are the people that can afford distractions and they realize that they don't want them. Where is the movement among black public figures pushing blacks to simplify, economize, save, and prosper? I haven't seen it, if it's out there I'd like to know about it so I can support it. |
3420
Member
Username: 3420
Post Number: 121
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 12:45 am: | |
Kaptansolo
That was an excellent point and post. How old are you? I sometime wonder the same things you are saying. But I'm an everybody come together to help out each other no matter what race or gender you are person. But one of the best post I read in a while. |
Blksoul_x
Member
Username: Blksoul_x
Post Number: 40
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 1:02 am: | |
'KKKaptansolo'
PLEASE TURN OFF CHANNEL ZERO!....
Obviously you have been watching to much of it!__go figure!
blksoul-atcha! |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4555
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 1:22 am: | |
You know what Kaptansolo I agree with you on a lot of what you say. But there are several things that I will interject later however. But for the most part from what you typed I agree whole heartedly.
But there are several critical things that you have left out completely (albeit not intentional I hope). That makes it not quite that simple...
(Message edited by Detroit_stylin on August 03, 2007) |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2333
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 1:54 am: | |
Well, Rev, I told you several posts ago(over 600 in a month is entirely too many) to give it a rest. Now, look what you've done. You've made yourself sound like a mad man. Take your wife's advice, mayor's advice, and now my advice: take a break from this thread. Go discuss something on the other forums. You'll feel better.
Janesback, the fact that you know Jewish people that experienced the Holocaust doesn't excuse your comment about slaves essentially having it better because they were housed and fed and they were valued property. Again, who are you to make that judgement? African slaves were separated from their families, never to see their loved ones again. African slave women were raped repeatedly and forced to have the children of their rapists. African slave males were beaten and whipped to break their spirit. All these things were terrible atrocities. All the things that happened to the Jews during the Holocaust were terrible atrocities. Neither groups atrocities should be labelled more terrible than the others.
Also, Jane, Chinese men and Irish men came to this country freely. They may have felt that they had to tolerate the conditions imposed on them while working for the railroad companies, but none of their horrors can match slavery or the Holocaust. They could walk away from their atrocities, slaves and Jews couldn't.
Kaptansolo, I'm curious as to whether you are black or white. You make some interesting points, but some of your suggestions aren't that cut and dry.
Karl, you are a(n)____________(Karl, what do you think most of us would write on this line?). You too need to take a break from this forum(9000 posts in just two years). If you are retired, then find something else more worthwhile to do then spend all of your time irritating people who don't share your extremist views. Most people on this forum, including myself, are tired of your self-righteousness. Do you believe that if you beat us over the head with that self-righteousness that it's finally going to sink in? Go fishing, see your grand kids, or take a trip around the world. Just leave us alone for awhile.
BTW, Karl, you last post directed to Mayor sounded pretty bigoted, if not racist. More reason for you to take a break from this forum.
(Message edited by royce on August 03, 2007) |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4559
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 1:57 am: | |
Ummm Royce....
Every post Karl has ever made was laced with bigotry... |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 2:10 am: | |
lol Karl. I was not hardly suggesting that if you are not black you should or cannot read my post.
I am merely suggesting that there are some things that black people could do that require nothing from Whites or any other race. SOME things definitely not all.
I did not want to talk about what has already been stated over 100 years.
I'm saying that black people need to also understand that going into business is not only about being your own boss. Too many times I see this and I realize that the proprietor did no real research on what the community needs nor does he really understand that he is "serving" a community. Your customers are your bread and butter...learn how to treat them as customers should be treated to retain a loyal following. That means get your butt up and be open on time. Again...take note from the successful white people. Don't be so quick to say they are white and that is not how black people do things.
The main thing I am saying is that it is your right to whine but it is not going to change anything. White people offered the Indians $24 and a bottle of liquor for the island of Manhattan. Yes, they did take it by force as time went on...my point is...they were focused and had an objective.
What are black people's objectives in making white people admit there is racism????....OK...it is here...GREAT! They are not going to stop it just because you demand that they admit it. Like I said...if they admit it...then what?
Black people still need to know how to do things for themselves. They still need to know how to build things for Themselves.
Huge example.
Nigeria has oil and due to colonization by the Europeans the oil is extracted by white people and hauled off to other places to make a profit. Nigeria has been "free" of colonialism for almost as long as Pakistan and India. (Yes I know a lot of the "freedom" is on paper only) but, why is it whenever the refineries that are there break down ...they have to be serviced by whites from Europe. You mean to tell me that as long as oil has been coming out of your own backyard, no one has studied the machinery enough to learn how to fix it. I hear Africans all the time here in New York City talk about how they were so rich or came from a privileged household in Africa but due to a radical military leader overthrowing the government they have lost everything. Funny, of the engineers that I know from Africa, none of them are too up on how to run a refinery for oil in Nigeria. Not even how to fix it.
The Pakistanis and the Indians(east Indians)are testing nuclear capabilities. They were freed from colonialism about the same time as Nigeria and they have obviously been busy learning about nuclear power. Why haven't Black people??? In Africa or America????
It's not that Black people are anywhere near dumb but black people are certainly not taking advantage of the things that they can. AGAIN...I'm not saying that racism does not exist.
Black people are too caught up in the American lie about freedom and being able to do whatever you want to do. Like I said earlier...All white people who had something to do with the slave trade did not necessarily want the job but it paid and it advanced them as a people and somebody had to do it.(Clarification- I do not mean that somebody had to enslave another race...I mean that it was a dirty job and a dangerous one) Imagine being on the Atlantic with a lot of people and at any moment the possibility of revolt is there. My point again...is whomever it was that did the job...they did it with a goal in mind. Black people need to have the same focus.
Black people are so wrapped up in things that have nothing to do with true progress. White people do whatever it takes to reach their objectives. They lie no less than Black people and any other race for that matter but they have an objective. Black people scheme as much as white people do but not for the advancement of black people. Too busy getting over on one another to stop and look at the bigger picture.
Black people need children who are going to become engineers and work in research and development to advance themselves as a people. Unfortunately, I hear all too much...black parents encouraging their children to do whatever they want to do. They should be telling them what needs to be done in the black community and make them understand that they have a responsibility to take part in black folks advancement. I'm not talking about basketball, hip hop or anything else that has nothing to do with "infrastructure" for black people. Those who have money illegally or legally should be willing to invest in other black people who are ready to take on the challenges of building a strong community...unfortunately...even if they were interested(and most are not) in doing such a thing....there is not much they could really invest in. I don't mean the restaurants that Michael Jordan and Oprah opened in the mid-nineties in Chicago. I'm not talking about Prince's Glam Slam nightclub in Minneapolis or Sylvia's restaurant in Harlem. I'm talking about research and development firms or the automotive designers that could be the building blocks of an African American automotive company. Oh...I forgot ...blacks don't have any engineers who do that or who are willing to take the risk and be the first to try and build something like that. (Thumbs up for Oprah building a school in Africa). Like I said...those whites who came to Africa to extract slaves probably were not in love with the heat and the journey across the Atlantic was not a cruise trip either. It was work. Blacks need to realize this and accept the fact that the first ones are going to struggle...any volunteers? Hell No!!! because no black man or woman with a degree is going to struggle like that to start an empire. "Hell I got mine and I'm going to enjoy my life"...yeah "F" that!
White people endured a climate they were not used to. They did what it took. Why can't black people???
"I'm not going to go down there and take a small shop and start trying to produce a car on my own" "I mean Henry Ford did start with a whole bunch of factories right???"
Drive over on the corner of Edison and Second and read the plaque in front of his first mansion and read about the machine shop that was above the garage because Edsel showed a keen interest in automotive design.
Some black people had the money to do things like this with their children and did not.
I'm not saying that these opportunities were always there but, when they are...a lot of times black people do not take advantage.
Yes it does look as though white people just do as they please. Not so. They are very disciplined. I'm really going to step on some toes here.
White people know that even though this is a free country that at 16 or 17 or anytime before they finish college and have made a mark...they do not need any children.
A couple I know (black man/jewish woman) had a scenario like this...
The wife wanted to know what one of the main things that attracted him to her and he stated that she was the first woman he had been involved with that did not already have children. She was very upset and felt that this should not be a attribute that can be reason for interest.
The funny thing is when I thought about it. He had a point. How hard is it to find a woman under 25 in the black community and the hispanic community for that matter that does not have children already???
Why does this matter...you ask????
White people get the financial burden and act accordingly. That is to say that behind closed doors there are many white women who have had to pay a visit to the abortion clinics as well when they were young...my point is...they know this not the time for a child. They know that they need to be in a position first to bring children into the world.
Take a lesson black people. Why do they wait until they are in a certain position because it make s sense. Stop thinking that, "everything is going to be alright and the lord will see you through". I'm saying that black people have learned this lesson enough times and it is time to wake up. Stop talking about if I don't have it then it was not meant to be or the lord must have decided that I needed these children or else he would not have given them to me.
I mean I am just talking about the facts here right now. No loaves of bread are falling from the sky...white people get it...why don't black people????
Yes I know, before somebody tells me about the white people who live in trailer parks and are also on welfare and have the same problems as blacks. I just want to say that I have no reason to make comparisons to others who are losing a game. Measure yourself against those who are winning. I'm not talking about the being equal too thing that "Ice Cube" pointed out years ago and said. "who are they to be equal to?"
I'm saying if you are whining about what they are doing to you and that they have everything and will not share with you then learn what they are doing so you don't need to beg or complain about what they are not doing for you...you will be at the very least attempting to do for yourselves. Learn how they created what they created here in America. Hold on black folks...I did not say get in a ship and go and colonize a land somewhere. I'm saying some of the concepts that whites use to get ahead could be exercised by blacks and it would get the ball going.
I know that even in education sometimes...many times the information that blacks learn is not the same as what whites learn....but black people must admit that even when the door is opened most would only go in and take things to "enjoy" themselves rather than focus on building solid foundations.
Take 24 hours and do not use anything that is not made by black people. If you find this difficult and it pisses you off then DO something about it. Let it be known in your head how much black people are not doing and then sit down with others and decide what you need first. Don't get your hair done with anything that is manufactured by another race and then you will see what is needed to support a race or community. This will cause you to "break it down" to the building blocks. If you don't like how you look, feel, smell or what you are eating...then that is where black people must begin.
"Damn, you mean I cannot use any nail polish?"
That is correct...find out what is in nail polish...and realize that black people need a few youths to go into that field (chemistry) and apply it to this new need so that there can be nail polish for black people by black people. Those blacks who get rich from their nail polish sales will then have to buy cars made by other blacks...because someone else will have said in the town meeting that we need some youths to go into engineering and design automobiles and trucks to transport the nail polish. No one use a cell phone and no computers until blacks have enough people who are PRODUCING the computers and cell phones(and repairing them) that will be obviously needed.
I know everyone probably thinks this is idiotic what I am saying...but this is how a nation is built...I think.
What will happen I can say for sure is that no other race will get rich off black people other than black people because NO dollar leaves the community...except for taxes.
Every time something gets broken in the black community they are waiting on someone white to come and repair it. Why? Because they do not know how????...and it is not because they could not learn. Black people choose not to in most cases because it is not "fun" and "enjoyable".
Again...somebody has to do it. A community must have civil cervices.
When the tornadoes or microblasts hit Detroit in 1997 and 1998 the white guys from Asplundh (this is not spelled correctly) were there to clean up the city of the trees and other debris.
If black people don't know how to remove trees then this is something else that must be learned.
Yes I know that there are black civil engineers and electricians and plumbers. I'm just saying that apparently there are not enough of any of them if black people always need white people to build or fix something for them.(how many blacks worked on the design, engineering or even the construction of the new Davison Freeway) And if there are enough of them then they are not focusing on what the black community needs and doing something about it.
If white people start trying to stop you from learning how to take care of yourselves...then you have a hell of an argument.
Again...I'm still wearing my helmet.
(Message edited by Kaptansolo on August 03, 2007) |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 2:22 am: | |
3420-I was born in 1968 at Providence hospital. We were living on Caldwell street then.
I grew up near Grand River and Greenfield and the suburbs of Taylor and Ypsilanti.
I went to Redford, Northwestern and Belleville High schools.
Eastern Michigan University/U of Michigan-Ann Arbor and U of Minnesota.
I have lived on both coasts and Minneapolis as well.
Today, I live in New York City.
Royce-I intentionally wrote the post from a "lack of color point of view". I wanted to try and just state facts from a "Martian's" point of view to see what an "alien" would conclude.
I know they are not the most practical ideas nor are they that cut and dry but I am trying to get my ideas focused in the right direction(advancement) without joining a racist cause...black or white. I definitely do not have all of the answers...but the fact that some here were willing to say I agree with some of what you are saying and then maybe what I have said can be expanded into practical applications by others who have ideas...not form another black whining committee or a white "I did not do it" committee.
I just wanted to state what I see and not worry about why it is like that...Fix the problem first...and then we can all argue about history forever.
White people talk and argue about history as much as black people do...Look at the history channel sometimes. The difference is only a certain percentage of white people are going to sit around and ONLY talk about September 11...forever. Another percentage is GOING to CLEAN (take action) it up and continue with life. Black people can talk, argue and whine too...nothing wrong with that as long as there is a percentage of black people who are "fixing" the problem.
Ok black people are here...and this is not where black people want to be what should black people do about it?
Not to say that whites have nothing to do with it....but there is a lot of prep work that needs to be done on the black side of the fence first.
(Message edited by Kaptansolo on August 03, 2007) |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 2:44 am: | |
Maybe the problem is: (False side issues)
When so called "leaders" attempt to determine what "THE" problem is;
When after all the true problem is when "leaders"
are only Truly looking out for their own self interests or the interests of the people that bought them into power. |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1206
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 5:41 am: | |
"BTW, Karl, you last post directed to Mayor sounded pretty bigoted, if not racist. More reason for you to take a break from this forum."
Hmmm.. I dont know on that one. That doesn't come off as bigoted at all to me, I dont know maybe I am missing something. And lets keep it going people were past the 500 mark now, we can make 1000. |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 5:58 am: | |
I'm on my way to work and I want to leave this here...
The Pakistanis and the Indians(East Indians) and the Koreans who are doing nuclear testing have something to "whine" about.
They have done the leg work and learned about a technology and are trying to use it for the generation of electricity and probably some weapons of mass destruction as well. Let's not get lost in what they are using it for. I want to focus on the leg work part.
They learned about it...on their own!!!
White people have decided that they cannot use it. This is where white people are wrong.
The above is an example of what true racism is.
When black people reach the point where certain information or a technology they have learned and researched and are now trying to apply for the advancement of their people is impeded by someone white or any other race that comes along and says..."you cannot use that"
Then...and only then....will the whining be legitimate. |
Michigan
Member
Username: Michigan
Post Number: 887
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 10:30 am: | |
first of all, the Irish came here because the British were starving them to death during the Potato(e) famine. They didn't want to leave Ireland, they had to because everyone was dying and the Brits would not allow in food.
KapS- exactly what I was saying. My Grandparents believed in doing everything that you can for yourself. The fact that they founded a successful manufacturing company that put several generations of his family through college and that I am the third generation President/CEO of is a tribute to that industriousness that is missing here. If people want something they need to make it happen, maybe it is the "will to power". Whatever it is, stop wasting time and money on anything that you don't need or can do yourself, and stop wasting energy complaining. Focus that energy and work all the time at it.
One very important thing that I have learned- you have to sublimate yourself and your ego to the advancement of your agenda. When things don't go your way look at yourself. What did I do wrong? What can I do better next time? How can I improve my attitude and performance? What could I have done differently? Then, make those changes. You think the "white man" is holding you down? Well, find out why. Change the things that you can to make them more accepting. This is not "Uncle Tomming", it is GOOD BUSINESS. I don't think black people realize how much of their identity white people sacrifice to get ahead in business. Kissing ass and kow towing and fitting in are SOP for most people who want to advance. Doing the same thing should not be a point of shame for blacks, but it is. |
Karl
Member
Username: Karl
Post Number: 9102
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:18 am: | |
Royce, you are an idiot.
I happen to know that Mayor owns a Seville. Is it racist to mention that fine car, the purchase of which supports Detroit? I've owned 2, Mayor has owned at least one. I'm white, he's black.
That would make you the racist.
As to my posts/opinions here, ignore 'em. If I want to post all day and night, or not at all, tough. And as to the trip around the world, how do you know that I'm not on one right now? There's this new thing called the Internet....
As to your bigoted whining, keep it up - if it illustrates the majority in Detroit it helps others decide whether they want to spend their time/money/lives in the COD. If not a majority, folks can decide if they can tolerate you as they compare your likeness to a mosquito. |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2334
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:29 am: | |
Karl, I find it interesting that you didn't address my comments about your self-righteousness. Again, 9100 posts in two years. You obviously must think that you have something important to say, but why do so many forumers ridicule you? Detroit-stylin's last post confirms that. Yet, you keep commenting. Who's the idiot, Karl?
(Message edited by royce on August 03, 2007)
(Message edited by royce on August 03, 2007) |
Karl
Member
Username: Karl
Post Number: 9106
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 11:46 am: | |
Yeah Royce, I ignored that part of your silliness for your own good, but apparently you want more so here goes:
I believe the most extreme form of self-righteousness exemplifies itself when someone tries to squelch others' POV (think Hitler and how he killed Jews/gays) Royce, I could care less if you have 10 posts or 10,000. I read your POV and ponder/accept/ignore it. I would never be so self-righteous to tell you to quit expressing your POV because others disagree or ridicule you. If you whined and complained about your verbal whippings here, I might suggest posting less - otherwise, are you not one to promote "tolerance" yet you cannot handle words on a screen? You, Royce, are the self-righeous one, and like Hitler, seek to silence those who disagree with you.
I consider most of styin's posts lousy one-liners, feel free to take them seriously if you must. |
Ordinary
Member
Username: Ordinary
Post Number: 243
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 5:23 pm: | |
I can't believe it but I've read every post on this thread.
I think I can sum up what Accraghana, Royce and Blksoul_x are trying to say:
"It's a white man's world."
And that is the truth.
Any white person that doesn't think that being white is not a definite advantage in America is simply lying to himself.
Revaldullton, Perfectgentleman, Karl, and Kathinozarks, you make many good points about hard work and responsbility but you are in denial about the advantages you've had.
Karl, the post about naming your child Matthew instead of Tyrone was possibly the stupidest post I've ever seen on any of these threads. And I never read anything about people asking for reparations.
The flip side of the apology coin is the forgiveness coin. There is a great need for the blacks to forgive the whites for things that are out of all of our control and get on with taking care of business. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 205
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 11:53 pm: | |
Quote:"Any white person that doesn't think that being white is not a definite advantage in America is simply lying to himself."
Well it's actually a disadvantage depending on the situation. For us small business owners, there are many vendor lists we cannot get on if we are white. The lists are closed to all but minorities. There are many benefits from the government for small business, but some only for minorities.
If all people knew the laws and whats available, there should be no black women hurting financially. They have the most available to them. A white man comes in last on every list. Which incidently is discriminatory in and of itself.
You are/were right about white folks having an advantage in certain arenas. Thats not so much the case anymore though. There are a few ardent ignorant's still out there, but for the most part I think everyone has realized on both sides of the card, it's time to stop the nonsense and get along with each other.
If a black person gets turned away from an opportunity without explanation, I can see how that person would quickly go to the race issue. But the very same thing happens to whites and quite often. The fact is life can be difficult. And can be for everyone.
P.S. Karl must've never heard of Tyrone Powers, a famous "white" actor from last century. |
Kaptansolo
Member
Username: Kaptansolo
Post Number: 45
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 2:25 am: | |
Some Trivia on the Power family
There are four men named Tyrone Power in that family. Starting with Tyrone Power born in 1795 in Ireland. He was also an actor. His son's name was Harold and his grandson was Tyrone Power Sr.(father of the Tyrone Power you speak of Sstashmoo).
and this Tyrone Power has a son also named Tyrone (b.1959) as well.
The one you speak of was also linked romantically to Dorothy Dandridge.
Maybe Karl thinks that naming his son "Tyrone" would be naming his son after a white man who had a thing for black women?
I doubt that Karl thinks this about the name but that was a stupid post about what name you would choose for your son Karl.
(Message edited by Kaptansolo on August 06, 2007) |
Royce
Member
Username: Royce
Post Number: 2340
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 3:11 am: | |
Ordinary, I applaud your diligence in reading every post. I appreciate what you had to say in your post. Some people have a hard time seeing different people's points of view. I'm glad you were able to see them. |
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