  Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3386 Registered: 10-2004 |
... 5th from the bottom. And Metro Detroit is 3rd from the bottom of the top 200. Or is that the city of Detroit... 5th smallest job growth Best Places For Business And Careers The Best States For Business (Message edited by Livernoisyard on July 11, 2007) | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1694 Registered: 02-2007 |
Mr. Negativity has left his mark for today. What's worse is that is that Mr. Negativity gave a Cliff Hanger Title in the form of a red herring. (Message edited by Urbanize on July 11, 2007) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3387 Registered: 10-2004 |
Bitch to Forbes about their negativities, why doncha? Urbanize: Forbes?, I wanna piss and moan. Forbes: [Click] | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 1073 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yeah that was really sh!++y. F that. | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 97 Registered: 04-2007 |
I'm through listening to Forbes and their trash. | ||
Iseries840 Member Username: Iseries840 Post Number: 494 Registered: 08-2005 |
Why do people that hate Detroit & Michigan like to spend so much time here? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1601 Registered: 06-2006 |
^It's upsetting to see, and you can call it trash, but in reality there's not much of an argument to be made that MI should be any higher... | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 1757 Registered: 03-2006 |
One of the problems we have can be found in the last column of the table, I hope it makes her proud. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1285 Registered: 08-2006 |
The data seems flawed. One of the tables listed Youngstown OH as a better place for business then San Jose CA. Hello? Silicone Valley vs. Steel Bust town. What are the columnists over at forbes smokin'? Must be some strong shit. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1120 Registered: 04-2006 |
Warren is listed seperately from Detroit on that list... None of the other large metros seem to do that. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3388 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:Silicone is not the same as silicon. You've been watching too many breasts lately... Silicon Valley and the Silicon Hills in Austin have been offshoring for this entire decade. They're not the same as during the 1990s. | ||
Dsmith Member Username: Dsmith Post Number: 119 Registered: 07-2005 |
Cambrian, it appears that the negative within Silicon Valley's ranking is the cost of doing business there. It's simply not plausible for many startups to afford the rent and talent costs out there. That's a quite serious problem. | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 540 Registered: 12-2003 |
Livernois...... why do you live and die by lists? Top Tier schools, Forbes Best Cities, etc, etc... Does your CD collection only consist of top ten hits? It should because anything else isn't really worthy is it? One can often find satiety in things that aren't the best or highest rated. Hence why this website exists. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 245 Registered: 11-2003 |
There are bright spots, people... Looking at the numbers, with Warren having a population 2,500 thousand - which is 2.5 million in conversion - I think that's where they're lumping the suburbs, and specifically have subtracted the city of Detroit (I believe it's their lump term for Wayne County, as even under rosy estimates, the CoD does not have 1.9 million people). Check out the list of Michigan Metros, separated. http://www.forbes.com/lists/20 07/1/07bestplaces_Best-Places- For-Business-And-Careers-MI_7R ank.html So there are good signs in this as a REGION - which is where we should be focused. The incessant Detroit vs. Suburbs talk, frankly, is a complete waste of energy and if we spent that energy working on common issues, we'd be much better off. So - "Warren" at 141, and Ann Arbor (Washtenaw County, at 345,000 people), at 74, are not in the complete basement. I personally think that if Detroit embraced a balanced, entrepreneurial approach, making it easy for businesses by keeping parking open, increasing the visible security presence (I, as much as anyone on this board, knows that Downtown is safe - however, we must realize the perception is otherwise, and perception, in the business world, is reality), and killed the psychological roadblock of the income tax by right-sizing government (there are too many duplicated services between the city and the county), and working with the state to eliminate insurance redlining, Detroit has a ton of potential of being a diverse, small business mecca. But it HAS to do those things. Now having been on both sides of the issue, it's very, very clear to me where the problems are on both sides as far as small business economics, and what's the most frustrating is that the government of the CoD, with a little help from their friends in Lansing, could fix it all on their own. p.s. - There are people making 60k a year living in YMCAs in Silicon Valley. It's not all roses, at all - I know someone out there with a 2.5 hour commute, one way.... | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1786 Registered: 11-2003 |
DV -- What exactly do you mean by "keeping parking open"? Just curious. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 246 Registered: 11-2003 |
The city sits on a bunch of garages, and could greatly affect the parking prices and times. Parking needs to be inexpensive - $5 or less, everywhere (ala Birmingham, Royal Oak - downtown Royal Oak, I can get a 3-month pass for $110 - that's $30+ a month) and open consistently. Garages, (public and private) many times, open and close at weird times it seems - and the ones that are open, it costs $15 or $20, which is a heck of a surcharge to put on someone to come spend money (not counting Tigers games, etc). That was one of the top complaints that my clients always gave me - they feel like they shouldn't have to "know" where to park - just be able to park at a reasonable rate at the closest place to where they are going. I have learned that for the most part, business people who are not downtown every day do not want to have to bother with knowing exactly where to park - or take the time to do research before they come down - they're going to go after the closest available, preferably right next to where they are going, and if there are barriers like a two-block walk, or a perceived high price, they count that against you when evaluating you against your competitors, because you are inconvenient to them and their schedule. (Message edited by Digitalvision on July 11, 2007) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9602 Registered: 12-2003 |
Birmingham gives the first two hours FREE. IF we did that, the horrible and ugly surface lots would take a hit. I'm not sure that is a bad thing. My bet is that street (and mezzanine) level retail, restaurants, and smaller specialized shopping would go through the roof. Those surface lots might soon have value to be built upon, but the only way to encourage that...EVER...is to reduce their cash income value now. Who really cares about independent parking lots anyways...with all of the city-owned lots and private ones? They are blight and should go away. Parking nazis would take a hit too. Perhaps they would never consider this specifically for this reason. I'd bet that the entire city government doesn't have a single person with the guts to stand up against an active income stream in order to promote business...growing the city in order to replace that meager restrictive revenue stream with a collection of growth-oriented major ones?! (Time to make this a public department again within the police, anyways. It was a mistake to give a private firm the ability to skim off the top then increase business any time they wanted by writing false tickets.) | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 247 Registered: 11-2003 |
Amen, Brother Gannon. Amen. That is the vast majority of downtown's "blight." Their lack of spine is directly correlated, as I learned in the last mayoral race, to the amount of cash parking lot owners and companies donate to campaigns. After all, the fastest way to make change anywhere in this country is through the checkbook. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9603 Registered: 12-2003 |
H-m-m-n-n, in THIS case it is the fastest way to avoid change, though! | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 984 Registered: 11-2006 |
Get to the root of the problem and fix it. If it is taxes, lower them, if it is logistics/parking/whatever, fix it. This isn't hard and it isn't unimportant. Wake up politicians, if you don't fix it, you will be part of the problem, not the solution...and we (the state of Michigan) don't need, or want, any more problems. To the voters; please keep this in mind when elections come around. It matters very little how much tax money goes to local pet projects when we are bleeding businesses. What good will those pet projects be once everyone has been forced to leave the state for lack of opportunity? | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4496 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I love it when Detroitists sound like the George Wallace America-Love-It-Or-Leave-It crowd. To paraphrase Sinclair Lewis' comments about America: I love Detroit and Michigan but right now I don't like either. (Message edited by Jelk on July 11, 2007) | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11630 Registered: 10-2003 |
I love it when Mr IQ quotes others, as well as books, cause he can't come up with anything on his own.  | ||
Bussey Member Username: Bussey Post Number: 541 Registered: 12-2003 |
Did it take you long to draw that sweet dog? | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 544 Registered: 02-2007 |
I know a few people who have looked into moving here. They weren't concerned about taxes - in spite of the tax critics, Michigan has always been middle of the pack, while some of the faster growing economies have been on the high end - they were disgusted by the state of the roads and other infrastructure issues. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4497 Registered: 10-2003 |
Actually I was quoting a speech not a book. You're just jealous I can quote someone other than Kid Rock. You want something of my own. Ok here goes: I don't like the prevailing anti-intellectualism in Detroit and Michigan. Every place has their share of douchebags and retards but no one celebrates their ignorance like Detroiters and Michiganders. People in this town act like they should be embarrassed of their college degrees or knowledge of art and culture or ability to do anything more complex than repeatedly put a quarter panel on a car until they can retire with a pension. I actually once heard a guy at a bar bitch that finish carpenters were pussies and fags. Real mean do rough carpentry. I mean seriously what the fuck is that. I don't like the fact that Michigan/Detroit politicians of all stripes give lip service to the importance of higher education in the information age/new economy and then turn around and cut funding to state universities. I don't like the fact that low protestant religiosity influences our political system from the right in the suburbs and from the left in urban areas. I don't like that fact that the majority of Michigan urban dwellers consider using buses, bicycles, or even walking an indignity. I don't like the fact that the state of our public transportation system leads me to agree with the majority of urban dwellers about the buses. I don't like the fact for all the hot air about the diversified post-industrial entrepreneurial economy, there is disproportionately more money lent out in payday loans and subprime mortgages than venture capitol. I don't like the fact that there is a loud and dedicated minority who thinks all that is irrelevant if Detroit can just get a Cheesecake Factory. See now I have to go and quote someone else. "Let them eat cake," says Marie Antoinette. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1705 Registered: 02-2007 |
Great Comment Jelk. You summed up everything backwards about Detroit and Michigan in a nutshell. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 248 Registered: 11-2003 |
Perfect, Jelk. Perfect. I don't know if there is anything to add to that well-written summation of the issue at hand. So the problem is defined. What is the next step, Jelk and others? My first idea is to get out and do it. My thoughts on a Cheesecake Factory or anything else is that if you want to have a specific retailer in a certain area, and you really feel passionate it's going to make an impact, go get the money you need to buy a franchise, and do it yourself (and don't let the fact you don't have any money now or people think you're crazy stop you). It's amazing what the power of the mind can do - and the power of thousands of people doing instead of talking. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1286 Registered: 08-2006 |
"Silicone is not the same as silicon. You've been watching too many breasts lately... " Funny! Nice deflection to a question about your flawed lists. Dare I say you agree with me that your Forbes lists are bogus and baseless? | ||
Bumble Member Username: Bumble Post Number: 251 Registered: 11-2004 |
It was pointed out to you why Youngstown might have an advantage over Silicon Valley, so perhaps the list isn't as bogus as you assert. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1287 Registered: 08-2006 |
If that's so, why is Youngstown as impoverished as it is? If it has got such a good business climate then smart companies would have taken notice and snapped up office space all ready. | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 199 Registered: 06-2007 |
It goes to show you where we are headed in the future. Ive said it before.... you ain't gonna see no big revitalization of the Detroit Area. If you can't keep people from moving because of the current situation here, then you know where this is going to lead to, even with all the whole downtown revamping. If you can't bring the people & the cash flow..it's not going to work...Sorry folk's, we are going to go further down the road that people don't want us to go on. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 891 Registered: 07-2005 |
Supersport wrote: quote:I would rather read what "Mr IQ" writes any day of the week over the whiney, hypocritical and retarded rantings of a wannabee Detroit cop / casino dock worker like yourself Sporto. | ||
Bumble Member Username: Bumble Post Number: 252 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote: I don't know and I don't much care. You asked a question, and it was answered for you. Your turn to refute it. Or, you can whine about someone pointing out that you don't know the difference between silicone and silicon. | ||
Bumble Member Username: Bumble Post Number: 255 Registered: 11-2004 |
Amen, Quozl. Amen. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1288 Registered: 08-2006 |
You mean this? "Cambrian, it appears that the negative within Silicon Valley's ranking is the cost of doing business there. It's simply not plausible for many startups to afford the rent and talent costs out there. That's a quite serious problem." A good point, but still does not answer why we don't see more software stuff going on in OH. Then CA. But go ahead bumble, if you wanna swallow what ever Forbes shovels at you be my guest. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9621 Registered: 12-2003 |
I like the quotes, too, Jelk. Thanks. Anything out there you like?! | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3394 Registered: 10-2004 |
This quote was taken from a DYer (perhaps, attending college) quote:[Spellcheckers cannot detect English usage errors. Too bad for many DY forumers.] BTW, the following are the Forbes stats for the two cherry-picked front-runner (compared to Wayne County--Detroit, #198 of 200) cities brought into question--Youngstown and San Jose. Strange! I don't see any mention of software in either. Could it possibly be that there are other businesses or industries other than software (which is currently being offshored at high and increasing rates)? Forbes ranked their cities according to the defined criteria--mentioned in the listing... #176 Youngstown OH Population: 592,000 RANK Colleges 117 Cost of Doing Business 72 Cost Of Living 9 Crime Rate 90 Culture & Leisure 162 Educational Attainment 183 Income Growth 134 Job Growth 171 Net Migration 163 Overall 176 #183 San Jose CA Population: 1,774,000 RANK Colleges 57 Cost of Doing Business 199 Cost Of Living 200 Crime Rate 37 Culture & Leisure 35 Educational Attainment 10 Income Growth 177 Job Growth 199 Net Migration 194 Overall 183 | ||
Vintagesoul Member Username: Vintagesoul Post Number: 26 Registered: 06-2007 |
Jelk. I cannot agree with you more. Tell me where to sign up to help, DV. I agree that there needs to be more participation. I'm a big believer in action too. | ||
Bumble Member Username: Bumble Post Number: 256 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote: This was your assertion; please stay on track. | ||
Yelloweyes Member Username: Yelloweyes Post Number: 152 Registered: 02-2007 |
Yeah LY. Detroit and Michigan are going down the shitter. Soon nobody in Michigan will have jobs and we will all live a miserable life suffer a painful death. Michigan, Detroit in particular, is an awful place, similar to the Hell described in the Christian religion. Is that your message. Oh yeah its not YOUR message you're just the messenger. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1131 Registered: 04-2006 |
Did they explain how they weighted the criteria? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3395 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Just ask them. I usually get my questions answered when directed to the right people. Or OTOH, are you implying that some witches or warlocks there at Forbes were busy stirring their cauldrons? | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1289 Registered: 08-2006 |
(Message edited by Livernoisyard on July 11, 2007) LY loves the edit feature to fix various punctuation or spelling errors. That's why you see the above message after just about every one of his posts. I'd venture to say he uses it more then any other DY poster, college attending or not. Sure, I use it too, but not every time. Wow! that's a lotta grammar gaffs. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3396 Registered: 10-2004 |
Anything to please, Cambrian... Moving on to more important areas: Why is it that you are so sensitive in your reactions to all those lies put out by Forbes and others of their ilk? By now, you surely must have seen or heard them all. If you'd like, you should consider mounting your steed and charging a windmill that Forbes may have left standing. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1132 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Or OTOH, are you implying that some witches or warlocks there at Forbes were busy stirring their cauldrons?" Keen eye, inch high! I was just curious as to what their strategy is since you did not specify, and I didn't see it explained when I browsed the list (albeit, briefly). There are clearly some inconsistencies in how they define the cities. There also appear to be some fundamental differences between what they define as a good business environment, and what reality defines as one. Why isn't their publication based in Provo, UT if that's the absolute best place to be? Instead of NY which comes in at a disappointing #113. Why doesn't a premier business magazine have a office presence in the corporate mecca of Boise, ID, yet they have one in has been metro Detroit? If job growth is the heaviest weighted factor, then a place like Youngstown going from zero to 1 would statistically look better than a place like San Jose going from 100 to 101, but does that really make it better? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1133 Registered: 04-2006 |
>LY loves the edit feature to fix various punctuation or spelling errors. That edit feature also told on him not too long ago. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 944 Registered: 06-2004 |
What makes a good business climate depends on what type of business you are running. If you are running a technology based business, then human capital is the primary criteria. This is why companies stay in Silicon Valley despite its high costs. The list is idiotic because its not particularized to types of business activities. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 439 Registered: 04-2006 |
it says our regulatory environment rank is "3" (of the 50 states) which i assume is a good thing... (the number one state had a regulatory rank of "1") so... what does it mean? |
