  Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 175 Registered: 08-2006 |
Hello everyone, I am in search of raw footage or recordings of news broadcasts from the 1967 riots. Does anyone recommend any sources, or does anyone on the board have any of this material? The footage in question will be used in a film that I am currently producing for the University of Michigan. Thanks! | ||
Cklwbig8 Member Username: Cklwbig8 Post Number: 124 Registered: 02-2005 |
Try this. http://www.buyoutfootage.com/p ages/titles/pd_na_047.html | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1160 Registered: 07-2004 |
You don't have to toe the lefty line and call it an "uprising" if you don't want to, but at least use the Kerner Commission terminology and call it a "civil disturbance". | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 862 Registered: 01-2005 |
Detroitnerd: just this Sunday, the New York Times called what happened in Newark in 1967 a riot. The headline: "With 40-Year Prism, Newark Surveys Deadly Riot" | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1161 Registered: 07-2004 |
I wouldn't expect anything less from the New York Times. I'm one of the 15 percent of Americans who refuses to believe that paper. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1628 Registered: 01-2005 |
The NYT cranks me off constantly in their use of "Mr." in front of anyone. "Mr. Sirhan was refused parole today....."Mr. Dahmer appeared to have severe problems....etc." Nuts. | ||
Aoife Member Username: Aoife Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2007 |
The Reuther Library at Wayne State has footage. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2420 Registered: 06-2004 |
Ray, that's just the NY Times's style sheet - every media outlet has it's own style to be followed | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9562 Registered: 12-2003 |
Paging PSIP! He might be able to find you someone or thing that will help. I'll see if I can find his e-mail addy here and let him know of your desires. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 176 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thanks Cklwbig8 and Ray. I figured Wayne State would have something but haven't inquired yet. I'd rather not pay an online source if I could get the footage through a University or local news station. Gannon, much appreciated if you could get in contact with your friend. I am particularly interested in recordings of live news broadcasts or recordings of news shows from the days surrounding the riots. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9583 Registered: 12-2003 |
Gs, He's OUR friend, and a regular poster here. He's been digitizing old film footage from various news sources professionally, but I have NO idea if he can deliver what you need directly. It is likely copyrighted and owned by the stations. I believe he might be able to help direct you to a few within a couple of the local news firms that might be of service to your cause. Haven't found his e-mail yet, likely he'll show up...or Vic Doucette or another can track him down. You can always page him through the Connections side! Cheers! | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1165 Registered: 07-2004 |
The guy at Reuther who'd know is Tom Featherstone. | ||
Ed_golick Member Username: Ed_golick Post Number: 699 Registered: 10-2003 |
the current rate for footage at WJBK is $1,000 per minute. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 178 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thanks for the info everyone. Hopefully Psip will drop by. Ed, you don't suppose they'd cut a poor college kid a break, would they? | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1957 Registered: 04-2005 |
As far as I know, there are no "air checks" of the actual broadcast of any local station. In 1967, the cost for video tape was about $500.00 a reel. Almost all of it was recycled. This is why so few old programs exist today. Unless there was a kinescope made, or a crew shot it on 16mm, there will be nothing. There is a lot of 16mm film of the actual riots. That guy on the net, what is it $350 for 20 min, is about the best deal you will find. The price Ed mentioned is low. Best of luck, I don't have any idea where you might find what your looking for, Sorry. | ||
Maxcarey Member Username: Maxcarey Post Number: 143 Registered: 07-2006 |
the current rate for footage at WJBK is $1,000 per minute. Any Tiger games in that WJBK stash? | ||
Rickinatlanta Member Username: Rickinatlanta Post Number: 68 Registered: 07-2006 |
"Forty years ago this month, the city of Detroit exploded in one of the worst riots in the nation's history." Detroit Free Press 7/11/07 This headline is from today's Free Press. Forget this crap about about calling this event a "civil disturbance" or "uprising" it was a RIOT. I lived there during this time and we all know what it was. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1167 Registered: 07-2004 |
Yes, some people insist on calling it a riot. Property was destroyed. Crowds looted stores. Arson was another problem. The people refused to respond to police orders to disperse. Those are classic symptoms of a civil disturbance. But when you say RIOT, people think, quite appropriately, of a pogrom or, as Gunnar Myrdal called it, "an urban lynching." Hand-to-hand combat. Crowds pummeling innocent bystanders. Etc. By all accounts, there wasn't a whole lot of melee 40 years ago. Crowds menaced people, but didn't kill them. The disorder frightened people more than it harmed them. A great deal of the death was from jittery guardsmen thinking "snipers" were shooting at them. But was it a riot? The official report from the U.S. government chose to call it a civil disturbance. I notice that referring to it as an "uprising" identifies one as politically sympathetic to the urban community, and referring to it as a "riot" performs the same function for suburbanites. Think "freedom fighter" vs. "terrorist". These words make political distinctions. People who want to avoid politically freighted words might choose the word "insurgent" instead. And, as for 1967 being a "race riot" -- no way. It had deep racial dynamics, being a pitched battle between a white supremacist institution (DPD in 1967) and a black urban community galvanized by disinvestment. But were whites and blacks duking it out on Woodward? No way, brother. | ||
Rickinatlanta Member Username: Rickinatlanta Post Number: 69 Registered: 07-2006 |
How bout some definitions of Riot? a public act of violence by an unruly mob rioting: rioting: a state of disorder involving group violence take part in a riot; disturb the public peace by engaging in a riot; "Students were rioting everywhere wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/web wn Riots occur when crowds of people have gathered and are committing crimes or acts of violence. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot a violent disturbance of the public peace by three or more people www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/pries tly/vocab.asp But whatever..... | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1168 Registered: 07-2004 |
Right. The dictionary is pretty clear on that. But most people don't refer to the dictionary when they hear a word; they conjure an image instead. And the image they conjure for "riot" often involves fighting, bloodshed and pogroms. And that's why people in an academic or sociological setting try to use their words carefully. Hence the bias against calling it a "riot." | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 181 Registered: 08-2006 |
Sorry Detroitnerd, but you're way off base. You can't say something like "It had deep racial dynamics, being a pitched battle between a white supremacist institution (DPD in 1967) and a black urban community galvanized by disinvestment" and then go ahead and then deny that it was a RACE RIOT in the next sentence. Your description above is the very definition of a race riot. I understand your concern for public misconception, but this is Detroit. Take your PC side-stepping to Larry King Live. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 182 Registered: 08-2006 |
Also, what do you think people were saying back in '67 when this happened? Heck, what do you think people would say NOW if an unruly mob were to clash with the police? "Look out, there's a huge CIVIL DISTURBANCE down the block! People are saying this is just like the 1967 Violent Disturbance of the Public Peace!" (Message edited by gsgeorge on July 12, 2007) | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1644 Registered: 01-2005 |
"A great deal of the death was from jittery guardsmen thinking "snipers" were shooting at them." Yeah, I suppose they started all the fires, too. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1169 Registered: 07-2004 |
Yeah, I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm only telling you what you'll hear in academic and institutional environments, which tend to use bloodless language. But that's the point: They're not trying to inflame any passions. Anyway, among those who study civil disturbances, there's scholarship that drives these distinctions. "Riots" in the United States, historically, were actual pitched battles between communities, and race riots involved actual bloody, hand-to-hand fighting over territory. Think Tulsa in 1921, or Chicago in 1919. After WWII, they became what urban researchers like to call "commodity" conflicts, and involved a lot less street melee. Black communities found themselves not in conflict with white mobs but with white cops and white troops instead. Anyway, what academics talk about in their settings has little sway over how we all talk. But there's a reason for it. Call it what you want. I was kind of poking fun in my original post anyway. | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 863 Registered: 01-2005 |
"What you'll hear in academic and institutional environments." Perhaps you are thinking of academic papers like this from Vanderbilt University? It uses the R word: The Labor Market Effects of the 1960s Riots Working Paper No. 03-W24 William J. Collins and Robert A. Margo ABSTRACT [article] Between 1964 and 1971, hundreds of riots erupted in American cities, resulting in large numbers of injuries, deaths, and arrests, as well as in considerable property damage that was concentrated in predominantly black neighborhoods. There have been few studies of a systematic, econometric nature that examine the impact of the riots on the relative economic status of African Americans, or on the cities and neighborhoods in which the riots took. We present two complementary empirical analyses. The first uses aggregate, city-level data on income, employment, unemployment, and the area's racial composition from the published volumes of the federal censuses. We estimate the "riot effect" by both ordinary least squares and two-stage least squares. The second empirical approach uses individual-level census data from the Integrated Public Use Microdata Series for 1950, 1970, and 1980. The findings suggest that the riots had negative effects on blacks' income and employment that were economically significant and that may have been larger in the long run (1960-1980) than in the short run (1960-1970). We view these findings as suggestive rather than definitive for two reasons. First, the data are not detailed enough to identify the precise mechanisms at work. Second, the wave of riots may have had negative spillover effects to cities that did not experience severe riots; if so, we would tend to underestimate the riots' overall effect. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1170 Registered: 07-2004 |
OK, I'll qualify it for you further: You'll find a tendency to not use the word "riot" in academe. Now, when it comes to you guys, you really are ... a riot. ;) | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1295 Registered: 08-2006 |
What of the infamous raid of the Blind Pig at 12th and Clairmount that was credited as starting the '67 riots? Is the building still standing, in use? Any one have pix or a history of it? | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4407 Registered: 10-2003 |
No Cam....there is currently an apartment complex at that corner now. I have been spending a significant amount of time on that stretch of 12th between clairmount and the boulevard for a project that I am currently working on... | ||
Maxcarey Member Username: Maxcarey Post Number: 144 Registered: 07-2006 |
I thought that there was an open area mini-park on that spot. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3985 Registered: 10-2003 |
This in the mail bag from independent radio producer Chris McCarus [who did the ItsJeff piece among many other excellent Detroit related pieces]. http://michigannow.org/archive s.php quote: | ||
Swiburn Member Username: Swiburn Post Number: 177 Registered: 07-2006 |
There is a small park with a metal sculpture to designate the riot area (at l2th and Clairmount) Originally the site of the Economy Printing Co., the top floor of which was the "blind pig." | ||
Economy_printing Member Username: Economy_printing Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2004 |
There is no building on the sight of the Building where the Blind Pig was on 12th a few doors above Clairmount. The building was not on the corner. The corner building was selling shoes at the time. The actual building was home of the Economy Printing Company. Their sign can be seen in various photos taken on July 23,67. Economy Printing was there in the 40's as well as old phone books can attest. I dont know if the Blind Pig was on the first or second floor. The police entered from the back. In post riot photos, the building had a for sale sign on it. It can also be seen in the 1968 photos when Robert Kennedy made an appearance on 12th St. There is another site besides buyout footage that has some expensive footage of the event. If I can remember what it was I will post it. I have footage from both. | ||
Swiburn Member Username: Swiburn Post Number: 178 Registered: 07-2006 |
Thanks for the post, Economy_printing. Yes, as soon as I typed my entry, I remembered that the printing office was in the middle of the street. The blind pig was upstairs. When the disturbance first started, the police hoped it would be like l966's "Kercheval Incident" when block captains quelled the disturbance before it got out of hand. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3986 Registered: 10-2003 |
Just a note on "a small park with a metal sculpture to designate the riot area". The artist, John "Jack" Ward is a close and long time friend of mine who was also a house mate at my Highland Park house, a cooperative of mostly artists in those days, at the time he created the sculpture which was fabricated at the Wayne State Foundry that he was managing at the time. He is originally from Port Huron and now has his own long-running bronze casting foundry north of Atlanta. I saw him just last week. When they dedicated the park and 'unveiled' the sculpture, there was no mention made of the riot, of the park being dedicated to its memory or any relation to the riot being mentioned whatsoever. The same was true in requests for proposals for a sculptural centerpiece for the park. No mention of the riot. [One of those elephant in the room situations I suppose.] Instead it was viewed as part of a broader part of a revitalization and beautification of 12th Street, soon to be renamed Rosa Parks Blvd., the new housing to the south and the broadening of the avenue. As a result, Jack did not realize the significance of the location at the time he was awarded the grant; he was just a young sculptor happy to make money making art for some new city park. Nonetheless, and not surprisingly, an assumption has grown almost into an urban myth that the park and sculpture were meant memorialize the riot. The somber and minimalist nature of the sculpture lends support to the myth. At the time there was a lot of sentiment for not wanting to look back at the riot, but move on and look forward. In some views contemplating the riot is like asking a rape victim to talk about the rape -- a 'who wants to be reminded' attitude. Maybe that explains why there is no Michigan State Historical marker on this very significant site. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 917 Registered: 07-2005 |
quote: A Historical Marker for a riot? Is there a Historical Marker in Philadelphia for the 1964 Columbia Avenue riot? In Los Angeles for the 1965 Watts riot? In Omaha for the 1909 Greek Town riot? In Newark for the 1967 riot? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1173 Registered: 07-2004 |
Sometimes, there are monuments to unfavorable events. Would you have them remove the memorial from the Murrah building? Or start demolishing all the holocaust museums? The function is supposed to be educational: Never forget, lest we repeat these horrors. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 918 Registered: 07-2005 |
No I would not have them remove memorials or Museums. I was posing a question. Are there Markers in Cleveland, Newark, Watts, Belle Isle (start of the '43 Detroit race riot), Plainfield, NJ commemorating where and why the various riots were started? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1176 Registered: 07-2004 |
Oh, I thought you were upset. Disregard ... | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 2216 Registered: 10-2003 |
D Stylin, are you in the WSU MUP program? I agree that a commemorative marker needs to be placed at the site. However it may not neccessarily qualify as historic since most historic things need to be 50 years or older. The condition of the park at 12th and Clairmount represents the attitude metro Detroit has about racial issues: ignore it and hopefully it will go away or at least stop being discussed in polite company. However, as Lowell stated, its the 2 ton elephant in the room that no one wants to deal with. We'd much rather pretend it's not there, walk around the topic and try and put up with the smell. 12th and Clairmount is the epicenter of post-industrial, post-modern Detroit. 8 Mile might be the fault line, but it started at 12th and Clairmount. 12th and Clairmount has permanently changed the way our region thinks about race, city and suburbs and regional development. Our region and its developemnt patters and attidutes, by and large, are the way they are today because of what started at 12th and Clairmount. It's time to stop running and ignoring and time to start acknowledging the reality of 12th and Clairmount. I haven't seen or heard of any commemoration events for the neighborhood and I too have been studying it extensively as part of a class for the past few months. Hopefully we'll come around for the 50th anniversary |
