  Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 880 Registered: 09-2005 |
Article from today's Globe and Mail (Toronto): http://www.reportonbusiness.co m/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070705 .wrchery05/BNStory/robNews/hom e The article is written for a Canadian audience, but the most disturbing part is the graphic found at the bottom of the article (at least it is a graphic in the print version): THE CHANGING FACE OF AUTO MANUFACTURING $73 Average amount unionized assembly line workers make per hour in the United States, including benefits (U.S. dollars). 83¢ Amount in U.S. dollars that Chinese auto maker Chery says it pays assembly line workers per hour, a total of $132 a month. That is right: $0.83 USD. This isn't the first thread about Chery (and the Chinese auto industry), but that $0.83/hr figure is very disturbing. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1501 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think this is how Chrysler is going to make a profit off of small cars, by using their relationship with Chery. But that statistic is why the next UAW contract is so crucial to the future of the Big 3 and the State of MI. That contract will really dictate what our/their future will be. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 9514 Registered: 10-2003 |
That is why all compact cars will be made in either China, India or S. Korea. They cannot be made and still make a profit in N. Amaerica. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1502 Registered: 11-2003 |
GM already does it with having the Chevy Aveo built by their Daewoo subsidy in S. Korea. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2677 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ford doesn't currently offer a vehicle in this segment in the US. The focus is a bigger car than this. Chrysler is doing a great job retooling it's lineup to adapt to the new market realities. Last month their sales were flat. The product mix was changed significantly towards more fuel efficient vehicles. Their truck sales were off 18%, their car sales were up an astounding 55%. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 881 Registered: 09-2005 |
I think one of the major points is that eventually China will be able to produce high quality cars. Instead of Cherys, China will be able to produce Cadillacs at a fraction of the cost. When that happens the American automakers will have to move production to China to avoid losing massive marketshare to cheap Chinese vehicles (by making American cars cheap Chinese, quality, Chinese cars). | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 83 Registered: 04-2007 |
The chinese Need to get rid of communism. That's why they make 83 cents an hour. There's no union and really no business. The government tells them what they are going to make. What I don't get is how we EVER started trading with china! I mean, we STILL wont trade with cuba, and they'r like 50 miles off our coast. People of China: wake up and see that your being exploited! Restart the revoloution of the 60's this time there will be no stopping you! I mean you'r government censors Google!!! | ||
Nighternock Member Username: Nighternock Post Number: 21 Registered: 02-2007 |
Well people it's time we start making demands upon our elected leaders. The only people making demands are those raking in the profits. If the money was taken out of the political process the only interests that would be served would be the people's, not the hedge funds or the big corporations. We're living in some very sorry and troubling times. Things are likely to get worse yet before they get better. People in today's America are more outraged when a silly hotel heiress (Paris Hilton) gets out of jail a couple weeks early on a DUI charge than when a member of the President's inner circle (Scooter Libby) gets his entire sentence erased (by the same President he lied for) without serving one day behind bars for lying under oath about lies that were told that have cost many thousand of our troops their lives, not to mention the lives of untold hundreds of thousands of foreign citizens, which is making us less secure at home. I know it's painful to admit we have a problem. We're like a drunk in denial. We want our bottle. But when the pain gets great enough the people will wake up. How much more pain do you want Detroit? | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2678 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Actually that won't happen. There are many costs involved in shipping a car from China. Those costs go up as the size and complexity of the vehicle go up. Eventually the shipping and sourcing costs exceed the labor cost advantages. Don't forget there is currently only about 10 hours of labor involved in the assembly of a vehicle. The amount of labor needed to build a luxury vehicle isn't much more than that needed for an econo box. The other issue is the Chinese market will mature and start to absorb the manufacturing capacity in the country. As the capacity is better utilized the cost associated with that capacity will also rise. Thereby limiting the amount of new work they receive. We saw it with the similar rush to build product in Mexico. Mexico's costs were much lower when the initial rush occurred. Now their costs have risen and there isn't the same impetus to move plants there. Most of the talk in the auto industry is about right sourcing the location of builds. Larger and more complex products need to be built near the end user. Smaller and simpler products go to the cheapest sources. Why else would Toyota build a truck plant in Texas. They could build it in China and get much cheaper labor to build it. Building in China only makes sense when the labor costs override all the other costs baked into the vehicle. That formula works for small cars, but falls apart in more costly, higher volume vehicles. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1070 Registered: 04-2006 |
"I mean you'r government censors Google!!!" They aren't the only ones... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C ensorship_by_Google | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3341 Registered: 10-2004 |
Some security analyst stated on the radio that some of the higher-paid Chinese auto workers were making far in excess of $0.83/hour--more like $5/hr. Just like only some 15% of US auto industry workers are overpaid the UAW compensation plus perquisites. It's not uncommon for some of the Tier component plants to pay not much more than the now-raised minimum Michigan wage. Even 2-tier UAW plants are now paying $13/hr or so for all new hires with few bennies. When those workers are factored into the average US compensation, the average wages for the various classes of auto workers is nowhere near $73/hr. Not even close to that. The next UAW contracts due to be negotiated will be interesting reading come Labor Day. Perhaps, these contracts might not extend for the traditional four years, due to the massive changes during the past four years and the uncertainty of the next four. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 828 Registered: 11-2006 |
To some extent you get what you pay for. At the same time 73 dollars an hour is obscenely high. If the UAW doesn't recognize this and come in line with the competition on labor costs, they will commit murder/suicide for the big 3 and themselves. | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 611 Registered: 05-2005 |
$73 per hour in wages and benefits?!! Is that true? Any link/info to back that up? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2395 Registered: 06-2004 |
LOL, Future, it goes up every time it's published somewhere - probably driven by the nasty health insurance premiums. Even the Big 3 and UAW back universal health care. | ||
Jenniferl Member Username: Jenniferl Post Number: 377 Registered: 03-2004 |
Given the cheap quality of Chinese products (i.e. that junk you buy at dollar stores) and their disregard for safety (i.e. lead in kiddie jewelry, poison in pet food ingredients), I'd be afraid to drive one of those Chery cars. | ||
Ccbatson Member Username: Ccbatson Post Number: 842 Registered: 11-2006 |
Of course they do, it will decrease their costs. Ask the individuals if they want socialized medicine for themselves and their families...that is a better question. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 3344 Registered: 10-2004 |
That $73/hr figure is probably not far off for UAW workers, after considering all the costs involved. It was reported two years ago that the jobs bank workers cost the automakers an average of around $130K to 135K annually. However, even minimum-wage paying employers pay far in excess of the minimum wage for their help too. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2536 Registered: 12-2005 |
The original post quoted U.S. wages "including benefits" but the Chinese wages (union affiliation unspecified) mentioned no such benefits. I understand many Chinese workers' expenses (medical, housing, etc.) are heavily subsidized by the state. We should compare apples to apples and be wary of those who would lead us to do otherwise. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 129 Registered: 02-2007 |
I heard 71.00 cost per employee/hr on NBR or somewhere recently. 71,73,53 whatever, it's a long way from 2 or 3 dollars an hour the Chinese are making. And impossible to ever compete with. With the economy dwindling not only here, but in other parts of the country as well, regardless of what the media is saying, it's just a matter of time now. Sweeping reforms are inevitable in regards to trade. It's not going to keep going like this forever. The current administration is so grossly inept at doing anything for this country it's laughable. 47 million Americans with no health care, most of them children. Our current government operates on borrowed funds from foreign governments, to the tune of 1.5 trillion dollars. We're spending 10 million dollars an hour in Iraq. And the media barely mentions any of it. Should be a total public outrage. Hopefully, things will be better after 2008. Someone stated, Our republic is strong enough to withstand 8 years of anyone. 12 years is probably stretching it. Detroit and the economy in general, I have a feeling is going to be Chery's and China's worst nightmare. This free ride their getting isn't going to last forever. It will serve these companies right that pulled their manufacturing and sent it over there. They'll wind up with a worthless facility in the backside of nowhere. "Globalization" We'll see.. | ||
Brushparkbub Member Username: Brushparkbub Post Number: 13 Registered: 03-2007 |
70 bucks an hour is more than many lawyers make. it is more than many people with advanced degrees make. it is more thank teachers make. it is toooooo much. forget talking about chery. lets really focus on the real problem. union wages are out of wack with reality. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 231 Registered: 05-2004 |
Is that Chery... Chinese for Yugo? | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 1098 Registered: 04-2006 |
^I'm pretty sure that $70 estimate factors in health care and pension costs... |
