  Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1342 Registered: 02-2007 |
Ok, we can agree that a nice percentage of te Uran Density in Detroit comes from Abadoned or Burned Out Buildings (this includes downtown). A lot of people suggest tearing down every single building in the city and starting over. However, there's not much density as it is to go around as it is. Im sure if we did do that, it wouldn't make a big difference in development or desirability for the land. I suggest preserving the buildings (giving them a facelift) and creating some type of incentive for developers and business owners to consider. Do you thinkg tearing all these places down would help the cause or will it just be hurting us knowing that no one will fill those spots up? | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1484 Registered: 12-2005 |
Do you think that population and density are somewhat related? If you have a bunch of buildings all clustered together (like your solid block of text) and no one living/working/selling/worship ing in them, you are pretty much making crackhead heaven, as evidenced by other past-density area. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1344 Registered: 02-2007 |
So what do you suppose we do about it? Create more urban prairies? When I think of a big city, I don't think of big lots with Tall Weeds growing in them, or economic farming. | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 398 Registered: 11-2005 |
I bet if we did more urban farming in the areas such as the lower corridor and continually boarded up the buildings it would definitely change the dynamic of the area at least. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1293 Registered: 04-2006 |
So how do you propose to implement this? You can't throw folks out of their houses. When the freeways were put in, people were displaced for those, and most everyone will argue that was not a good thing. However freeways were an attempt at doing something. You just can't throw folks out and bulldoze if your plan is to farm it ( should the land not be contaminated, and you know it is). Have we learned nothing from the mistakes of our past? Isn't this why all large projects must have EAs and EIS's that review these impacts and allow for public input? | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 400 Registered: 11-2005 |
I am not proposing to bulldoze anything I am just saying the abandoned fields could be used for the urban farming. Buildings that are city owned or deemed abandoned we board up. Others are allowed to operate as they always have not eliminating the culture. One way to reduce contamination is to plant species that absorb the highest levels of that contaminant I do not think that all land would work for this but if the land was maintained to a degree it would definitely change the way those who live in the area even view their area. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1346 Registered: 02-2007 |
Urbanoutdoors, I do like your proposal to board up abandoned buildings instead of just tearing them down. It promotes Urban Density and eliminates the crime elements to an extent (especially if it board them up enough), but I still dislike the farming idea. Demographically and Agriculturally, Detroit is not favorable for economic farming. It's ok to have a vegetable patch in your yard, but anything to the extent you're speaking of doesn't make sense. It would cost millions to treat the land, even purchasing the species or bacteria you're describing. Mostly however, it's going out the world backwards bringing a economic luxury like this into an inner city environment (especially in huge areas). | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 402 Registered: 11-2005 |
Well I am just throwing the farming Idea out there not saying it would work on large scale in those areas but if the lots were at least maintained (picked up and grass cut) it would change the mentality. Then set up more drug rehab programs in the area. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 756 Registered: 01-2007 |
Urbanize, I need a bit of primer here, can you explain how pop/dens correlates? I know cities should be dense, and not like the not-so-dense burbs. Is it better to have a tightly packed city like Detroit once was? Or should it be planned to be a little looser? Just some food for thought, Urbanize, as I'm learning all the time. Here are some photos of the decay (composting) of our city. I guess when the soil is fertile a new city will grow: Note: press f11 when viewing photos for full size. I really love this house on Forest neat St. Aubin. The last stage before the urban parries: http://i148.photobucket.com/al bums/s22/bulletmagnet69/100_45 98.jpg?t=1183561140 A building on Mack, where someone made a living. Now a tombstone to our great past: http://i148.photobucket.com/al bums/s22/bulletmagnet69/100_45 97.jpg?t=1183561308 The final stage. Totally back to nature, the ultimate victor. This is along Fredrick Street: http://i148.photobucket.com/al bums/s22/bulletmagnet69/101_79 65.jpg?t=1183561432 This is so 'up north' it comes with bullet holes in the sign: http://i148.photobucket.com/al bums/s22/bulletmagnet69/101_79 66.jpg?t=1183561535 Who wouldn’t want to live out here?: http://i148.photobucket.com/al bums/s22/bulletmagnet69/101_79 67.jpg?t=1183561610 The beauty of the wide open land, fresh air: http://i148.photobucket.com/al bums/s22/bulletmagnet69/101_79 68.jpg?t=1183561666 I could dig this farm house: http://i148.photobucket.com/al bums/s22/bulletmagnet69/101_79 70.jpg?t=1183561720 I for one can appreciate what is going on in Detroit and I think you do too my friend. I think we have moved back in time to when we were just beginning to build. If any one wants to see life here in the late 1800,s just go on down these streets now. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 92 Registered: 06-2007 |
-"It would cost millions to treat the land, even purchasing the species or bacteria you're describing. Mostly however, it's going out the world backwards bringing a economic luxury like this into an inner city environment (especially in huge areas)." It doesn't have to be done as a massive one time undertaking, which i'll get to in a moment. But should be a long term priority, a forestry department anyone? -"Is it better to have a tightly packed city like Detroit once was? Or should it be planned to be a little looser?" That's the heart of it right there. Most common practice subdivides the land into fairly dense parcels maxing out the land with low-rise residential if the market allows for it. We all know the market doesn't want that in Detroit. We are too scared of our neighbors. We fear how they were raised, what their intentions are, what their financial situation would demand from them in order for them to be able to eat and feed into their other addictions (no need to get into that here), i.e. theft. With so many vacant parcels either owned by the city or simply forgotten about, it makes sense to put those to use under an urban planning initiative. 'Next Detroit' would be a good vehicle to initiate the training and coordination of parcel size farming programs. Of course it can't be done in isolation. The city would have to adopt a zoning plan that would allow for high density mixed use villages that focus on education at the pre-school and elementary level. If you know your neighbors and know where your kids are and that their getting a good education and that their being taught to be good stewards of the land , people would be willing in closer proximity to each other. The thing is though, zoning doesn't allow for any except more of the same. The city should start selectively rezoning for 'no-zone' properties (at contaminated parcels, which would cost about $5,000 a pop to plant effective remediation species, not including testing, as well as recommended by conservation experts after examining michigans wildlife migratory patterns) and Special Use districts that would allow for innovation in land use. We all know that taxes are a problem with people wanting to own property in the city. If you took a single, typical residential city block and zoned 2/3rds of it as either 'no-zone' or agricultural and the remaining 1/3 as Special USe or PUD, people could pay taxes into their rent (or a new form of land ownership that is more vertical, like condos, but amiable to lower incomes and today's standards of 'quality of life' (no housing projects please)). For $120k you can buy a water filtration system that could handle community level water needs. If 2/3's of a city block were organize for sustainable use, City water and infrastructure would be a thing of the past, reducing the city's need to tax. Energy consumption is also something that can be localized, it could still be controlled by DTE. Traffic patterns could be isolated to selective access points, but that's a whole new can of worms. Think about it this way, it would take five years to effectively 'decontaminate' a site with phytoremediation. A parcel size tomato garden could produce enough of a product to sell on block level. A city block gets enough rainfall if harnessed that could serve all of the needs of that City block. Mixed use could provide employment. competetive education at smaller venues could offer new horizons for children as middle schools could compete for the best and brightest of neighborhood students (if a child is frustrated with his/her standing in life they can excel in academics and be recruited to go to another school with housing costs offset by the district their going to). I know it sounds kinda utopianish, but the concept has validity. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 1255 Registered: 10-2006 |
"I suggest preserving the buildings (giving them a facelift) and creating some type of incentive for developers and business owners to consider." Idea has already been underway for years. The Facade Improvement Program: http://www.degc.org/main.cfm?l ocation=80. It is most notable for example on the National Theatre. A building that would otherwise be potentially torn down, had it's facade improved. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 782 Registered: 01-2007 |
Charlottepaul, you can never improve on mom natures facade, not in Detroit. PS: Jb3, that sounds like I'm going to get more of the same too! Thanks, pal. (Message edited by Bulletmagnet on July 05, 2007) | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 1612 Registered: 01-2005 |
Looking at Bullet's photos, I suspect that if you folks get any kind of long dry spell this summer, wildfires may be a problem. That grassland looks tinder dry now. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1391 Registered: 02-2007 |
Guess what Ray, we got plenty of Severe Weather this evening. So how you enjoying that nice weather in Vegas? | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 99 Registered: 06-2007 |
You're welcome Bullet!....um, what did i say? Other than some crap about Ferndale i probably didn't mean. Sorry Pal. I think we all get a bit testy living in the D. P.S. what's with all the... (message edited by so n' so on whatever date)? I see that all over the place. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1392 Registered: 02-2007 |
It's to let the other members know that the poster edited their mistakes or made changes to their original response. We're not perferct you know, LMFAO! (Message edited by Urbanize on July 05, 2007) | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 104 Registered: 06-2007 |
That's ridiculous. Takes all the fun out of it. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 105 Registered: 06-2007 |
quote: "PS: Jb3, that sounds like I'm going to get more of the same too" more of the same of nature? I didn't make this planet, i just exist here. Pretty sure though, that no matter how many plants and insects i memorize, i'll never know them all. Buildings and urabanity on the other hand... more of the same of clean water? yeah, sounds awful. more of the same of alternative land ownership? O.K, i'll give you that one, but at least the air would be clean. more of the same of people? mice? pigeons? what? | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1398 Registered: 02-2007 |
"That's ridiculous. Takes all the fun out of it." You'll have to speak that up with Lowell. Most of us just ignore it. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 784 Registered: 01-2007 |
Jb3, I just like the wide open spaces. So it's nice when I find that in the middle of Detroit. I mean, what other city has a nature area like ours? http://i148.photobucket.com/al bums/s22/bulletmagnet69/100_83 39.jpg?t=1183769828 http://i148.photobucket.com/al bums/s22/bulletmagnet69/100_83 38.jpg?t=1183769877 Cool, no? People want to think of Detroit as a bunch of skyscrapers, and such. I think if you took either of those photos and put the name "Detroit" across it in bold letters, it would make a far better postcard then the ones of the sky line. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 114 Registered: 06-2007 |
I'm with ya. very cool. I like the open space too. Obviously, black bears like it as well as evidenced by the one climbing telephone poles in CA this morning. Of course this caused all the highway gawkers to stop and wonder, 'why would a bear climb a telephone pole?' I wonder. hmmmm | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1510 Registered: 02-2007 |
I could of swore I saw some big Panther-Like Feline in my Alley one time. These animals are re-claiming their land (lol). These animals are becoming less and less frightened by humans everyday, I swear. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 115 Registered: 06-2007 |
That was my pitty-boxer mix. I swear she's more agile than a cat. Good for keeping the possums and coons at bay as well, not too mention rabbits. Loooovvvees chasing rabbits. Wouldn't know what the hell to do with one if she caught, but the chase is what's important. Cheers!  | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 788 Registered: 01-2007 |
And cheers to Rover as well. | ||
Abracadabra Member Username: Abracadabra Post Number: 50 Registered: 04-2007 |
Those pictures look so familiar...... http://youtube.com/watch?v=Db8 DY3JkFiw | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1520 Registered: 02-2007 |
lol Abracadabra. Watching the first 5 seconds made me laugh. | ||
Urbanoutdoors Member Username: Urbanoutdoors Post Number: 412 Registered: 11-2005 |
classic abra! | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 877 Registered: 10-2003 |
Urbanize, Your questions are filled with over-generalizations and incorrect assumptions. There are no answers to your questions, because your questions are not valid. Any attempt to define the entire city of Detroit with a broad generalization is simply ignorant, and it will only lead you down a path of error and futility. Likewise, any attempt to figure out a "one size-fits all" answer to all of Detroit's challenges is an exercise in futility. If you really want to find answers to the problems in Detroit, the first step is to recognize the fact that Detroit is comprised of a multifarious array of neighborhoods. Downtown is very different than Delray, just like Brightmoor is very different than Boston-Edison, just like Mexicantown is very different than Midtown, just like Rosedale Park is very different from Rivertown. There is no blanket solution that will work in all of these different neighborhoods. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 791 Registered: 01-2007 |
Abracadabra, way to go! I wish I could photoshop them onto my pix. LOL | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 127 Registered: 06-2007 |
I wonder where Lindsay sydney Greenbush is today. Child stars and where are they now? LOL. Leave it to the French to care so much about LHOP to give it a U-tube slot. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 128 Registered: 06-2007 |
quote: "...and it will only lead you down a path of error and futility." welcome to the Dark Side young paduan Urbanize! | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 927 Registered: 06-2004 |
Why not use this opportunity to create more urban parkland and forest preserve (like Rock Creek in DC)? | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 88 Registered: 04-2007 |
I really dont know WTF you guys are talking about... Detroit is a city, the 11th biggest in the US. If you wanna have big open fields and trees start a Grayling Yes or something. I like my cities 1920-50 style, big, tough and polluted. I love the traffic, the noise, the lights. If you don't, maybe it's time to move... | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1593 Registered: 02-2007 |
Yeah, but you only get WWI and II big and lightning when you're in the Top 10. |
