  Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 459 Registered: 10-2003 |
So my girlfriend and I are going to the Town Pump one night for a friend's grad party, and as we are walking toward it, a bum thrusts a cup in front of us and shakes it, saying nothing. We are mid-conversation and I don't bother to acknowledge this rude crap. As we pass I hear him say "I'll slice ya neck". F-THAT. It would be one thing if I was with a buddy or something, whatever, but now I'm more worried for my girlfriend than myself and it just pisses me off. I'm sick of not being able to walk even ONE block downtown without being barraged by bums, and now they are going to threaten me when I ignore a terribly rude attempt to get free money from me? I'm sorry, get these people out of downtown. It's time to implement the Giuliani plan. Put them on a bus, drive them to Jersey, and leave them there. I love hanging out downtown, but it's really hard for me to convince others to go with me when they constantly feel uncomfortable because of this crap. OK, that being said, I probably don't mean all that, but you know how it goes when you are ticked off. Time to cool down. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1281 Registered: 06-2006 |
I've never really had something like that happen to that extent...usually bums are pretty harmless...but yes, stuff like that makes people who are less familiar with the city less likely to return... not sure what can be done about it...the panhandling law was a good move, which makes the simple act of begging for money something that the police can take them to jail for...probably won't serve as much of a deterrent though... | ||
Malcovemagnesia Member Username: Malcovemagnesia Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2005 |
Too expensive to drive them to Jersey. Just dump them off in Toledo. | ||
Detroit_girl Member Username: Detroit_girl Post Number: 94 Registered: 10-2003 |
I once had a very loud, aggressive female panhandler follow me into the entrance of Harbortown grocery store after I ignored her. "Hey, I'm talking to YOU!" F-that. The only thing to do is ignore them. | ||
Superaygun Member Username: Superaygun Post Number: 569 Registered: 04-2005 |
i work downtown quite a bit and deal with this all the time. one woman scowled at me when all the change i had to give was one quarter; another man followed me for two blocks (i am a woman, walking alone, mind you) going, "Ma'am? Ma'am? Excuse me, ma'am?" the funny thing is because i work downtown i have run into both these people a few times since and i find that just yelling at them works wonders. both of them now look the other way when they see me coming...the perma-scowl works pretty well too. they seem less likely to ask if you look mean. (Message edited by superaygun on May 24, 2007) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 828 Registered: 04-2006 |
I don't think Detroit's bums are much better or worse than anywhere else. Maybe just slightly less eloquent than Ann Arbor's... "Too expensive to drive them to Jersey. Just dump them off in Toledo." LOL. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 460 Registered: 10-2003 |
"i find that just yelling at them works wonders. both of them now look the other way when they see me coming...the perma-scowl works pretty well too." The only problem with that is when you're being threatened, with someone you care about, on a street with nobody else on it. Even if it's an empty threat, do you take the chance? By the way, why the hell is there nobody else on the street to begin with? I mean damn, it's the heart of FoxTown on a Saturday night, you can't find a place to park ANYWHERE, yet not a damn person walking down that street. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1589 Registered: 11-2003 |
SRG I have a hard time seeing you as looking mean.  | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 7599 Registered: 09-2005 |
In Detroit, like every other city in the USA, there are shelters and hot meals for anyone in need. But ya gotta be sober to get in. For the bleeding hearts who feel that these, too, must be donated to, get a backbone and tell them to sober up (it only takes a few hours) and then hit the shelters/soup kitchens. You're paying via your taxes and charitable donations to assist these folks, and when you give them loose change you bypass the system designed to help them. Your loose change serves only to drive them further from help and deeper into despair. | ||
Norwalk Member Username: Norwalk Post Number: 83 Registered: 11-2006 |
I always say im my best Borat accent "No comprend'e No English No English" An they always back off and say there sorry It's weird but it works every time! | ||
Superaygun Member Username: Superaygun Post Number: 570 Registered: 04-2005 |
LOL thanks, Gumby! but trust me, it happens! Tough call, Johnlodge. i wouldn't want to put anyone else in danger either...though it is a little more daunting to be accosted when you are alone, which is why i also carry a small weapon whenever possible. the methods i put out there are the ones that have worked for me, but perhaps i've just been lucky (though i have been jumped before, hence the weapon). i suppose as Detroit_girl stated the only other thing to do is ignore them. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 1500 Registered: 11-2003 |
I had a guy following me for about a block when I was out getting my lunch a couple weeks ago, he wasn't panhandling but he kept saying "ohh baby, I'd like to get at you" and "mmm mmm mmm" and "today is my lucky day." Once I got into the store where the guys know me I turned to him and said "Please stop that" and the guy said "Well, I guess it really isn't my lucky day" and the guys kicked him out. | ||
Defendbrooklyn Member Username: Defendbrooklyn Post Number: 177 Registered: 11-2005 |
Karl, For the first time we sort of agree... In my experiences downtown all of the bums were nice to me. I rarely give money, but never have been threated and/or harassed... | ||
Mrjoshua Member Username: Mrjoshua Post Number: 1360 Registered: 03-2005 |
Best response I've heard yet to "Scuse me sir, you have 75 cent?": "I was about to ask you the same thing!" | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1342 Registered: 12-2005 |
Save the fundamentalist bible tracts that you are handed, you know--the heavy handed ones about salvation, playing the death card. Carry them in your pockets. When the bums hit you up for money start the pitch about their eternal salvation. It works even better if you can affect a southern accent. They'll turn and walk away with no further word. | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 509 Registered: 06-2005 |
When approached by a panhandler (often 2-3 times a day), I think, "There but for the grace of God, go I." I say, "Thank you, sir (or madam); but not today." And I keep on walking. I never give cash on the street for much the same reasons that Karl mentioned. I prefer to donate to the Open Door Program at Fort Street Presbyterian Church. http://www.fortstreet.org/Open %20Door/overview.html (Message edited by Neilr on May 24, 2007) | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 160 Registered: 03-2005 |
Generally I hear them say "F-ing white boy" (or something equivalent) after I refuse to give them money. I've found the best line is "No, Sorry, God Bless" and be on your way. I've noticed some of the stories are getting pretty elaborate on the street. Many are now prefacing their request with "I'm not crazy, I'm not a crackhead..." when they are clearly both. The random denomination of change requested is always entertaining as well, "I just need 38 cents". As in, they know exactly how much change they need to afford their beer/liquor at the store. On Friday a guy tried to sell me a TV that he said "had just stolen from a truck". It was a small TV and it was in his backpack. | ||
Wsu98 Member Username: Wsu98 Post Number: 4 Registered: 03-2007 |
I usually say "No Thank You" as if they are offering me something. Either that or I tell them they sound like my wife, always asking for money. | ||
Kristina Member Username: Kristina Post Number: 32 Registered: 07-2006 |
Johnlodge, I know exactly which bum you are talking about. He's in that neighborhood every night. He asked my friends and I for a change a couple weeks ago. When we refused, he told us he was going to break into our car. And he did. Or someone did, at least. What a d-bag. | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 313 Registered: 04-2007 |
I hate to admit it, nut I always give money if I have any. I feel sorry ofr them , and I just hope that it comes back to me somehow. I know it is stupid Karl so go ahead and kick my butt, I deserve it on this. | ||
Sturge Member Username: Sturge Post Number: 15 Registered: 05-2007 |
I hate when they hit you up at a gas station. You're there filling your tank so you can't really just walking away. So I avoid those gas stations when possible. Also, did anyway get the story about "I need to visit my daughter in the hospital and I need enough money for bus fare?" One guy was asking for money for food. This was inside the Garden Bowl. So one person called his bluff and said, "Ok come with me and we'll buy some food at the counter." The guy says No thanks and leaves. | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 326 Registered: 04-2004 |
I just say, "sorry man, but I'm far in debt and OWE money." Typically, you get a look of astonishment on their face. Kind of off topic, but this past year in Ann Arbor I lived in a student neighborhood of a bunch of subdivided apartment houses. A few people were selling candles for $8 each to support struggling families in Detroit. I would have thought by the appearace of our street, they would have gotten a clue that none of us really had the money to spend or donate because just about everyone on our block was near broke or had a bunch of loans to pay off. | ||
Bigjeff Member Username: Bigjeff Post Number: 76 Registered: 08-2006 |
I know it's bad to do, but when one of our "less fortunate" folks ask me for spare change downtown. I always ask 'em if they have change for a hundred. Kinda catches them off guard. 9 times out of 10 brings a smile or a chuckle from them. I know, I'm probably a bastard for doing it. | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 327 Registered: 04-2004 |
Sturge, I hear that story a lot. It's almost like there is some master booklet somewhere of stories. Most people don't have time to listen to all that bullshit. Just ask flat out for money and if I'm in a good mood and have some change convenient, they will get some. Otherwise, I don't want to hear the story and I'll ignore them. | ||
Defendbrooklyn Member Username: Defendbrooklyn Post Number: 179 Registered: 11-2005 |
bigjeff, you are a bastard for that but it's funny. I always say na man not this week... | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1121 Registered: 08-2006 |
A chick pulled up to me while I was getting into my truck at Rite Aid and asked me for money. I told her that her Geo SUV was way newer then my '91 Dodge Ram and that I should be asking HER for money. Her jaw just dropped open in shock. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1364 Registered: 03-2006 |
I live downtown and can't stand the bums here, they are obnoxious and everywhere, the suburbanites feed them change after the game thinking they are doing something good. Time to put up signs that say "dont feed the bums" One guy tried putting a necklace on my girlfriend and i almost swung at him | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 87 Registered: 10-2006 |
I was on park ave the other night on my way to Cliff Bells and i parked beside the Kales when a guy came storming out ranting about how he was a "spot saver" and they people pay him big bucks for good spots. I said sorry and walked in. I came out and he was still there demanding the $100 that he could have made on that spot. I said piss off the end. Other times a friend of mine has offered bums granola bars,ramen noodles and powerbars from his backpack instead of money. Some take it some dont. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1365 Registered: 03-2006 |
does anyone know the girl that hangs at the gas station on warren and trumbull, shes a white girl who plays the my car is dead schtick, but then you can see her track marked arms and it's like eww! | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1199 Registered: 11-2004 |
When a bum is starting to ask me for change I just shake my head and keep walking. I used to ask them for money before they finished their story, but now I don't even waste my breath on them. Usually they just smile and walk on, but if they're persistent I tell them I am dead broke. I haven't had a problem with a bum yet, but I recognize that it's probably because I'm a bigger guy they don't want to rile. My fiancee, a small woman, uses the scowl method with great success, although one or two bums have made some sort of sexual or racial comment to her in the past. One thing that has worked for me is I maintain eye contact with them if I see them coming toward me or if they are in my path further up the block. Half of the time they don't even bother to ask me. One guy in a wheelchair once mumbled to me as I passed, "You're not going to give me anything are you?" I just said nope and went on my way. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1200 Registered: 11-2004 |
Chitaku: That same chick flagged me down once last year while I was driving by Murray Wright High School, saying the same thing about her broken down car. Nu uh lady. I wonder if trying to outlaw panhandling is the right course of action here. Why not write an ordinance that says there is a $20 fine for giving money to pan handlers? Maybe we're trying to penalize the wrong people. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2794 Registered: 02-2005 |
I've never been threatened by a bum in Detroit, and I can easily go at least a few blocks in downtown without even seeing one, let alone get approached. Quite honestly there were more in midtown when I was going to Wayne that would approach me. The only thing I don't like is when a bum wants to tell a story or make a long plea and it slows me down. If I have a loose buck, they'll probably get it with or without the story. If I don't have anything to give them, I normally just say 'don't have anything on me' and keep walking. I notice it's a lot different, for obvious reasons, if you're in, say, Bricktown and one of just a couple people on a sidewalk and you're one-on-one with a bum, compared to if your crossing Grand Circus Park after a game in a big crowd. Regarding a solution, I think it is totally within the limits of the law to charge them all with vagrancy/loitering and eventually have repeat offenders shipped out. But do you want police to be dedicated to repeatedly ticketing them, knowing full well we won't get any money from them, obviously? Whether or not you go someplace or visit downtown should have nothing to do with the possibility of running across a bum. A mature person can deal with them. Bums threatening civilians does not appear to be a widespread problem. So we might as well leave them and let all the immature/scared people stay out of the city. And if you do run across an aggressive bum or get threatened, don't forget the fact that you could get that bum in trouble. Call the cops, tell them where he/she is, and maybe you can get them charged with verbal assualt or something. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 461 Registered: 10-2003 |
"I was on park ave the other night on my way to Cliff Bells and i parked beside the Kales when a guy came storming out ranting about how he was a "spot saver" and they people pay him big bucks for good spots." I know that guy Mdoyle. He kinda tricks you a little because his clothes are clean and he looks clean shaven and everything. Leads you to believe for a split second maybe he is watching the cars. But of course he's not. At least when you say "no thanks" he doesn't tell you he's going to slice your neck. SORRY, still not over it I guess. F---ER! | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 857 Registered: 03-2006 |
I am surprised that some of you libs refuse to help these poor people. You seem to be all for forcing the rest of us to give money to them in the form of increased taxes to fund government programs, yet you humanitarians refuse to give aid to your fellow man on the street. Maybe Barnesfoto can offer some of these people shelter. Mackinaw slanders people who don't wish to be accosted on the street as immature and scared, another interesting analysis. Call the cops and get the bum charged with verbal assault? You would be lucky to get a cop to show up for a knife fight much less a "verbal assault." Do you have any stats to back up your assertion that "Bums threatening civilians does not appear to be a widespread problem?" (Message edited by perfectgentleman on May 24, 2007) | ||
Billk Member Username: Billk Post Number: 10 Registered: 09-2005 |
I just say 'Sorry, not today'. Usually thats the end of it. | ||
Gdub Member Username: Gdub Post Number: 1101 Registered: 10-2003 |
"You seem to be all for forcing the rest of us to give money to them in the form of increased taxes to fund government programs..." Not sure what the point of this thread has to do with government programs. Panhandlers are a different class, buddy. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 462 Registered: 10-2003 |
For PG, everything must be turned into a partisan issue so he can rag on "libs". ;) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2795 Registered: 02-2005 |
PG, my assertion is based on experiences downtown, and hearing from other people who do the same thing. They really don't keep stats on this stuff. I postulated on immaturity/fear of the city because when people say 'we gotta get these bums out of downtown' what they imply is that to get people to come downtown you should remove the bums, and alot of people don't come downtown because of the bums. If you can't deal with the reality of homelessness and desperation, then your head is indeed up your ass and you are indeed on the immature side. I really don't agree with the attempt to turn this into a partisan issue. There are a lot of cold hearted liberals, and then I vote Republican but don't think the bums should be removed and do think it's no big deal to give them money. | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 316 Registered: 04-2007 |
PG, why always make personal attacks. You need a vacation. Too much anger at everyone to be taken seriously. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 858 Registered: 03-2006 |
Gdub - There are plenty of government funded programs intended for the homeless. The best time to catch the libs contradicting their own positions is when they are off guard talking about something else. If panhandlers are a different class, I guess you mean they are even worse off than those on welfare. So by your logic the more destitute you are the less help you deserve? I am fine with all of that but if it is OK to refuse to help people directly than maybe we should allow the taxpayers to "opt out" of the forced charity program. Mackinaw - If Detroit is going to recover in any meaningful way, the bums DO need to be gotten rid of. Every sane person knows that except you. THAT IS dealing with homelessness and desperation. NYC is a great example of that. I guess some of us aren't as enlightened and morally superior as you are in that we don't like being harassed on the street. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1124 Registered: 08-2006 |
Nice turnabout PG, you must have grown tired of people asking you to enlist in the army? | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 701 Registered: 07-2005 |
JohnLodge: When I get hounded by bums looking for a handout in my downtown, I give them a few of these Bush Bucks:  I print the up on pretty nice paper stock on both sides, crumble 'em up and fold 'em back up. When they ask me "what do you expect me to do with this?", if I feel like rendering a reply, I normally tell them "for all I care, wipe your a$$ with it". Most of the time I just keep right on walking and ignore them... | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2797 Registered: 02-2005 |
If Detroit is going to recover in any meaningful way it needs a massive budget/tax structure overhaul, more good schools public or charter, aggressive economic incentive packages for small businesses, and (if you really want the neighborhoods to be reborn) an end to the culture of violence that afflicts us. I don't think bums are high on the list for any sane person. Downtown has bums just like it did five years ago, yet people and businesses are moving there. Chicago has tons of bums. Ann Arbor, too. Where do you get these views from? | ||
Downtownguy Member Username: Downtownguy Post Number: 17 Registered: 07-2004 |
Just don't give them money. If there wasn't a supply, they would move on. If you feel guilty about it, write a check to your favorite charity. | ||
Sbradke Member Username: Sbradke Post Number: 3 Registered: 05-2007 |
I liked the suggestion of giving them granola bars and the like. I work downtown and there's a guy asking for money for breakfast in front of CAYMC all the time. I might try that. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 859 Registered: 03-2006 |
Mackinaw - When hundreds of people complain about bums, there are news reports about the problem, and there are constant references to it on this very board, I guess one could assume there is a problem. You seem to think that the presence of these people have no adverse impact on a city. NYC and Toronto found out otherwise just as Detroit is now. Did you read the rest of the thread? Don't assume because you are so mature that the presence of bums don't prevent you from being in the city that others feel the same way. People have many choices as to where they will go for dining, entertainment, shopping or even where to live. Clearly many are choosing to go elsewhere and the constant harassment is part of the issue. The reason is not just the bums, it is that it makes an impression on the visitors to the city that law and order is being ignored. This is what was discovered in NYC. They instituted a no tolerance policy on turnstile jumpers and those defacing public infrastructure with graffiti and people began to feel safer which in turn brought more into the city again. For example, when parents drop off their kids at St. Andrews or the State Theater and they see bums milling around it discourages them from coming back. If you say these suburbanites are a bunch of pussies and should stay out then that is fine. In the end it is the city that loses the dollars these people spend however. (Message edited by perfectgentleman on May 24, 2007) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2798 Registered: 02-2005 |
Greektown is the busiest and most successful part of downtown. It has tenants that have been there for decades. It has the highest concentration of bums. Explain that. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1693 Registered: 11-2003 |
E_hemingway has it right... the only real solution is to penalize the people who give money to panhandlers. They are much more likely to follow (and be educated by) these types of laws than the panhandlers themselves. It is also a humane solution, as long as we also ensure that shelters and charities have enough funding (through donations and tax dollars) so that there is enough food and shelter for those who want it. We don't need to forcibly ship anyone anywhere. Of course, it should always be legal to give food to panhandlers. There is NO good reason to give cash to panhandlers. Don't do it, it is wrong. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 861 Registered: 03-2006 |
Mackinaw - I am sure the casino contributes to keeping it going. There is usually a fairly strong police presence in Greektown as well which is not the case in other areas of the city. Don't assume because it hasn't failed completely that it couldn't be doing much better. With all of the negative publicity Detroit gets it is challenging to get people to come in. When they do give it a try and people get in their face and make threatening remarks do you think it makes them want to come back? I go down there and sometimes before I am out of my car there is a scumbag waiting at my car door wanting money. I am big boy so I blow it off. Others decide it isn't worth the hassle and don't come back. Whatever, go ahead and advocate the status quo. Detroit is booming and the occasional threat against your life while you are minding your own business shouldn't be a big deal. Why argue with success? If it ain't broke don't fix it brother! | ||
Michigan Member Username: Michigan Post Number: 317 Registered: 04-2007 |
PG is right about bums discouraging folks from using facilities in Detroit vs suburbs. Some number of folks will decide not to bring their children in to town, or go to a restaurant in town, or park their car in town. It is a totally legitimate and sane decision to make. In New York the system instituted was directed against "Quality of Life" crimes. Bums, Squeegee men, turnstile jumpers, unlicensed street vendors, low level drug dealers, public urinators, et cetera were arrested and run through the system. The positive effect did not come from these arrests by themselves. The real improvements came because so many of those arrested for these "insignificant" and "victimless" crimes were found to be wanted for much more significant crimes. Murderers, assaulters, armed robbers, rapists, car jackers - these, it turned out, were the same people in the city casually disregarding the same "Quality of Life" laws rules that the rest of us follow all day everyday. So the law abiding bums ended up in rehab programs and the law breakers ended up in jail. A win/win for society. I would not be surprised to see a similar result in Detroit. (Message edited by michigan on May 24, 2007) | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 259 Registered: 11-2006 |
I don't know there is something wrong with a large city free of bums. Its just part of urban life. I give change to some bums not to others, it really depends if I have it available. I feel compelled to give, if I have a small snack I tend to give that as well, or buy a sandwich. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 465 Registered: 10-2003 |
All bums have cities, agreed. But do 10 different bums need to barage me walking from my car to a Tiger's game? That's a bit much. Plus, the threat that started this thread. F THAT GUY! PG is right, I wish he could do it without sorting people into political parties and attacking the one he's not a part of, but too many bums discourage people from visiting and make them feel uncomfortable, and that means less money for the city. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 466 Registered: 10-2003 |
HAHA I said all bums have cities. I'm not even going to change it either so there. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2800 Registered: 02-2005 |
I agree, 6nois. It's an age-old phenomenon. Johnlodge, I am understanding of your viewpoint. You had a very uncomfortable, recent brush with a streetwalker. Your grievance is justified. I have problems with PG trying to speak for everyone and say that it is Detroit's top problem. There is no way that's the case. There may be a few people who are so affected by bums that they don't go the city, but I just don't see this being prevalent. The people in this region who don't go to Detroit do so for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that they often live an hour away. Most people say great things about going downtown, but cite the hassel of getting there, either on a busy highway or a "scary" surface street. Where I grew up most people embraced the idea of going to the city but always cited the 'nasty/scary/etc' drive down Jefferson or Mack to get there. I think most people, at this point, percieve Detroit's issues as being focused in the neighborhoods and not downtown. Maybe I just don't hang out around the type of people or in the sort of areas where you all live. ...let's not forget that there is a whole crowd of people who actually hate Detroit or think it's just a joke. For these people, the issue of homeless people downtown is not the deciding factor when it comes to whether or not they will visit. | ||
Bagman Member Username: Bagman Post Number: 83 Registered: 06-2004 |
I have a lot to say on this and when I get more time I will lay it all out as I see it, but I wanted to take a second to say that Detroit could handle ten times the "bums" when and if it returns to the mass amount of people that used to frequent Downtown from 1920-1970. During that 50 year period if you were to walk down the streets of downtown you would never notice the "bums" amongst all the people. My favorite example is simply found in the best book ever.....DETROIT: Then & Now. You will notice when the old pictures were taken they could not possibly get a picture of a downtown building with out showing cars and people or even horses and buggy's but they were everywhere.....in the modern photos they are bare of humans and cars? you have to be told it's Detroit. | ||
Yaktown Member Username: Yaktown Post Number: 169 Registered: 02-2006 |
Whenever I venture downtown, I always carry a pocketful of Canadian money. That way, the bums will have to go over to Windsor and spend it. Voila, Canada's problem now! | ||
Jasoncw Member Username: Jasoncw Post Number: 364 Registered: 07-2005 |
lol | ||
Imperfectly Member Username: Imperfectly Post Number: 235 Registered: 06-2004 |
Sometimes I give change, but only to the ones who don't yell at me. The quiet bum gets my pennies. Also, I honestly do not care what they spend that dollar on. If I was homeless I would probably be drunk too. I say this in jest , sort of , but when I think about the life they lead on a day to day ...I would want to be out of touch with reality too. I feel guilty and thankful all at once. A good bum story : I had my dog outside of my place in Lafayette Park and a gentleman of the homeless variety was walking down my street, he commented on my dog and I said thanks or something and then he said Have a good day and god bless you ! I said you too with a smile. Sometimes treating another human like a human is all it takes to spread a better vibe. I have all the compassion in the world until someone is violent or scary. I ignore them. What else is there to do in that moment ? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2804 Registered: 02-2005 |
Well said. | ||
Crash_nyc Member Username: Crash_nyc Post Number: 888 Registered: 08-2004 |
I work near Grand Central station in Midtown Manhattan (bum central). If I gave money to every bum that I encounter on a daily basis, I'd go broke. Instead, I donate to City Harvest: http://www.cityharvest.org/abo ut/index.html City Harvest is a great idea that Detroit should adopt. It's a simple solution to urban hunger that just makes sense. | ||
Adamjab19 Member Username: Adamjab19 Post Number: 779 Registered: 11-2003 |
Detroit has forgotten harvest which just had an article in the Freep . BTW, Johnlodge, post 466 replying to your own post 465, funniest two posts in a row!! I went downtown a few weeks ago and the people around Cliff's bar and Adams area bugging me to park! They are the one's that bug me. | ||
John_galt Member Username: John_galt Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2006 |
We are so lucky we have the "shall issue" concealed pistol law. If the bums get violent or threatening, give them .38 or .45, and I don't mean cents. Otherwise, ignoring them usually works pretty well. | ||
Eric_w Member Username: Eric_w Post Number: 206 Registered: 02-2007 |
I won't give them money simply because it's for dope or booze which they do not need. There are plenty of soup kitchens & shelters. | ||
Southofeight Member Username: Southofeight Post Number: 90 Registered: 07-2005 |
"the suburbanites feed them change after the game thinking they are doing something good." You "almost" swung at him? Wow, you're almost tough. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5921 Registered: 02-2004 |
Johnlodge, Since Gov. John " Chicken" Engler closed most of the mentally ill hospitals in Michigan. Lots of bums, schizos and mutants are running about in our Michigan cities including Detroit. And since people lost their jobs. Most of them don't even think about having a another game plan to start a next job field, most of the people started to lost their homes, families and even their minds into another character of a DUMB animal. You're going to see these vagrants every day in ghettos of Detroit and its up to you if you want to help them or not. Just give it about 20 to 30 years and these leftovers from the Coleman Young era will disappear forever. While gentrification and rising property values claim the inner city ghettos of Detroit for good. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 951 Registered: 10-2003 |
If someone is playing an instrument I'll drop some money in the box, but when someone just comes up to me and asks for it, I ask them if they take debit cards. | ||
Yelloweyes Member Username: Yelloweyes Post Number: 143 Registered: 02-2007 |
I ignore them. But had two ideas about "rounding them up" 1. "round them up" in some huge busses and drop them off in BFE northern Michigan and make a survivor TV series out of it. 2. Drop them in Birmingham. That community seems to have a lot of extra money. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5922 Registered: 02-2004 |
MACKINAW, You quote that if Detroit is going to recover in any meaningful way it needs a massive budget/tax structure overhaul, more good schools public or charter, aggressive economic incentive packages for small businesses, and (if you really want the neighborhoods to be reborn) an end to the culture of violence that afflicts us. I SAY: tell that to King Kwame and the rest of black dominant city CLOWNSIL. Their political views are in the African American ideology. Their way they talk is black and their attitudes and personality is black and how they perform city services is black. Now don't let my viewpoints conclude that I'm a racist. Because for me being a Christian, I look into their hearts of every race. I don't think bums are high on the list for any sane person. Downtown has bums just like it did five years ago, yet people and businesses are moving there. Chicago has tons of bums. Ann Arbor, too. Where do you get these views from? I SAY: That's right, every American cities have their homeless problem, and it takes people like you and me who has a Christian, Muslim and Jewish heart to fox them all. If we want to change people, the person must change for his or herself first. It's takes action NOT TALK! | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2805 Registered: 02-2005 |
Last night, while waiting for a friend to spring his car from a bad parking spot that we got before the baseball game, I spent over a half hour, actually closer to an hour, after midnight, standing on State St. near the entrance to Capitol Park. A rough count of the people that passed by then yields these results: three homeless people, two of which approached me to talk (about sports, actually). Yes, I did drop some money on those two. If I just ate a pizza that cost 12 dollars, then surely i can give a dollar to a fellow human being who asks for one because he's hungry (or thirty, I don't care). Yeah so three homeless people and no threats thankfully right there near Cap. Park, and in that late hour probably 100-150 people walked past the corner of Woodward/State. Something I would not have imagined seeing five years ago. So let the judgments of my change-giving to bums begin. | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 323 Registered: 06-2005 |
This of course is not just a detroit thing. Nashville has over 2000 homeless. They are all over the place. I didnt really realize how bad it was till I took my sister and brother in law downtown one night. Man they are everywhere! Some agressive, some not so much. Just a city thing I believe. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 6120 Registered: 02-2004 |
Johnlodge, Do you think that the Guiliani plan to boot out the po'folks to Jersey is going to solve the bum problem? NO!!!! It may work for New Yorkers but not for Detroit. Everyone has a right to roam free either in America either as a civilized person or a wild animal. Every human being either you're spiritually SAVED or a SINNER has everyday problems and the MUST use their brains to solve their problems. If they can't THEY LOSE! The people of the Detroit and suburbs needs to step up and help, psychologically and spiritually treat they poor right away because if we don't, the next bum or po'folk you run into will either ask you for money or proceed with a threat. ARE WE CHRISTIANS, MUSLIMS, JEWS OR OTHER RELIGIOUS PEOPLE OR ARE WE COERSIVE HYPOCRITES? | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 319 Registered: 01-2004 |
I think the hypocrisy of the politicised religious right in the US is exactly what Danny is talking about. They are all mobilised and passionate about impeding civil liberties, the right to privacy, practice ones own religion and express themselves, but when it comes to God’s children who are down on their luck, many take an aggressive stance towards individualism (the protestant work ethic so engrained in our society). Whether these people’s poverty is a result of the failure of the market and a capitalist society where wealth is the result of labour and labour needs a poor working class to be productive or behavioural decisions, it is difficult to say, as it is becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish who/what the agents of dis-welfare for these people are. Thus, some argue the responsibility lies with those who benefit from the system to alleviate their distress not only out of the need for a healthy, educated population, but also human decency and the knowledge that we are equally prone to the risks of being poor and discarded. | ||
Dannaroo Member Username: Dannaroo Post Number: 78 Registered: 05-2006 |
speaking of bums... On Tuesday night I was at a concert at the Majestic Theatre and while I am never surprised to see a few homeless people milling around, it looked like they were having an early evening convention across Woodward sitting on the grass in front of McDonald's. There must have been about 40 people just hanging out there (that's loitering in my book). Oddly enough, even with the increased number of homeless concentrated right at one spot for a few hours, I didn't really notice more than normal actually panhandling. | ||
Civilprotectionunit4346 Member Username: Civilprotectionunit4346 Post Number: 134 Registered: 06-2007 |
Spare some change....change??? Does any here watch SouthPark...Move them to Cali' it's nice and warm there. Ive had my shares of run-in's with the homeless downtown. Me and my friend will usually point at someone across the street and tell them that guy over there look's like he might have some money, other thing's is I have just ignored them and heard them mutter random threat's... F---ing white boy's and other stupid insults. | ||
Sturge Member Username: Sturge Post Number: 33 Registered: 05-2007 |
LOL that was a good episode. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 2477 Registered: 12-2005 |
I don't see how tickets could be legally given to those who donate to panhandlers. How could you possibly write such an ordinance in a way that could differentiate between gifts to panhandlers and gifts to "legitimate" charities? Also haven't there been several court decisions protecting panhandling as free speech? I'm not defending either of these groups. I'm just saying that the problem would likely have to be approached obliquely through vagrancy, loitering, etc. Some organization in Phoenix had some success with a newspaper distribution idea. They started a small advertising/donation-funded newspaper and gave bundles of them to the homeless for free. The homeless would then distribute them to people stopped at traffic lights in return for a small donation which they kept. The newspaper was quite good, IMHO, and carried legitimate news articles. Essentially, they were simply given something constructive to do. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9469 Registered: 10-2003 |
/quote{On Tuesday night I was at a concert at the Majestic Theatre and while I am never surprised to see a few homeless people milling around, it looked like they were having an early evening convention across Woodward sitting on the grass in front of McDonald's. There must have been about 40 people just hanging out there (that's loitering in my book).} While I think that something needs to be done regarding the panhandling and homeless issues in Detroit I question your thread. Not the info but the intent. Since when is it illegal or bad for people to relax on the grass on a summer day? Would it have been different had it been punk kids waiting for a show to start at the Magic Stick? Go after the panhandlers and homeless that cause problems and add services in Metro Detroit for them but is it necessary to villify people minding their own business on a patch of grass in the summer? | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 448 Registered: 05-2006 |
"The homeless would then distribute them to people stopped at traffic lights in return for a small donation which they kept. The newspaper was quite good, IMHO, and carried legitimate news articles. Essentially, they were simply given something constructive to do." I use the Detroit-Windsor tunnel usually a couple times per week. On the Detroit side,at the light on Jefferson, there is usually a guy trying to stuff some newspaper in my window. Is that what he is doing? | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 829 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Do you think that the Guiliani plan to boot out the po'folks to Jersey is going to solve the bum problem? NO!!!! It may work for New Yorkers but not for Detroit. Everyone has a right to roam free either in America either as a civilized person or a wild animal. Every human being either you're spiritually SAVED or a SINNER has everyday problems and the MUST use their brains to solve their problems. If they can't THEY LOSE! " Ok I'm not really condoning that plan, but just for the sake of free thought, why would it not work here but would in New York? How would driving all the bums to Gary, Indiana be any different? Again, I never really condoned this plan, I was just in a fit of anger at having been threatened by a jackass. | ||
Gdub Member Username: Gdub Post Number: 1123 Registered: 10-2003 |
I liked the sign I saw one carrying after a Cubs game a few weeks back. Scrawled on a piece of cardboard: "Why lie? I need a cold beer" I almost gave money to that one. Almost. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 726 Registered: 01-2007 |
Johnlodge, I'm doing a series of Detroit photos titled "Urban Throw Rug", (or something like that) : http://i148.photobucket.com/al bums/s22/bulletmagnet69/101_79 21.jpg?t=1183167574 | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 198 Registered: 05-2006 |
I work downtown and am approached daily by people asking for change. I have never been threatened or had anybody be anything but polite to me. I have some experience working with homeless advocates and I have been told that the main reason why homeless people get upset is that they are ignored and treated like they didn't even exist. The scowling or ignoring is actually what sets them off. Is it really so hard to say "Hey, how are you doing? No I am sorry, I don't have change for you right now but have a blessed day and take care." Does it hurt to look a guy in the eye when you talk to them? I think that because I treat them with some common courtesy is the reason why I have never had a bad experience. I do occasionally give them money because I feel that it gives them a degree of control and empowerment over their lives. Sure, many of them probably use it for alcohol but maybe there are one or two who telling the truth and are really trying to get a bus ticket? How many of us can say that we wouldn't drink if we were in that situation? Hell, I would. You are all so tough and judgemental, I challenge you to spend one night in Detroit and then tell me you wouldn't drink or do drugs if you had to face that every day. I think the idea of carting them off to another city is the stupidest thing that I have ever heard. How is that going to solve the problem? How long before Toledo (or where ever) figures that out and starts shipping them back? Actually, the problem of shipping off the homeless to other areas is the REASON why there are so many homeless downtown. It is common for the police in other areas to pick up their homeless and dump them in Detroit. Maybe we can solve our unemployment problem by shipping the unemployed to Toledo? Hell, lets ship our seniors there too and we won't have to spend any resources on them either. Pack up the handicapped too and let's get rid of them. Idiotic. When are we going to realize that we have to find a way of dealing with these problems instead of just pushing them off? People who think there are enough shelters and programs for the homeless are delusional. Have you really spoken to people who work with the homeless or are you just going by what you "read somewhere"? What we need are not shelters, but permanent supportive housing and drug and alcohol addiction programs. We need to treat people who have mental illness as human being who simply have an illness. If we chose not to spend money to solve this problem, then we should not complain that the results are that they are reduced to begging and stealing. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 788 Registered: 11-2005 |
This is a great site: http://www.snowsuit.net/ A talented photographer doing portraits of the homeless, telling a little bit of their story. (“I came to Detroit in 1970 to get my life together.”) Sometimes they're trying to turn their lives around. (“I do the best I can; I rinse my mouth with clean water every morning.”) I never give money directly to panhandlers, only to reputable organizations, but this site really does help you remember that these are people - whether they say they want to slit your neck or not. |
