  Kville Member Username: Kville Post Number: 16 Registered: 04-2007 |
I started a thread a while back titled "Detroit Neighborhoods," trying to get some response on sources that could help me define specific neighborhoods in Detroit that were outside the more popular areas listed in typical chamber of commerce type of sites. Perhaps I need to focus on more specific titles one at a time to draw attention. Can anyone help me define the Harper/Van Dyke neighborhood more specifically? How far did it extend? Would another name be more appropriate? Was Harper & Gratiot another neighborhood? I used to live near Harper & Conner, but it was at a time when the Harper/Van Dyke/Gratiot area didn't seem to have the strong identity that it once had. I'd be interested in insights on the area's history and boundaries. | ||
Concon Member Username: Concon Post Number: 7 Registered: 04-2007 |
As I recall, the Harper/Van Dyke area had a newspaper for years. Burton's probably has some copies. I doubt that there were any defined boundaries but it was the center of commercial activity. | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2007 |
vandyke to gratiot and harper to french with patronage of st. joseph at its center was an area the italian community called gagalupe. i may have spelled it wrong but lived there from the mid 40s till 1960. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4228 Registered: 08-2004 |
The cornerstone of the Harper Van Dyke area was undoubtedly the 2,500 seat Eastown Theatre, one of Detroit's 4 outlying giant theatres that were similar in size and beauty to the downtown movie palaces. This building also incorporated storefronts and an apartment block. | ||
Kville Member Username: Kville Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2007 |
I remember the Eastown Theater. Beautiful building. I also remember shopping at Sears at Gratiot & Van Dyke. But I'm not as familiar with the residential areas around those streets - like the area around St. Cyril. My aunt also used to substitute teach at Burroughs School - would that area be part of the same neighborhood? I recall that once you got on the south side of City Airport and below the railroad tracks south of Lynch, the neighborhood seemed in close proximity to the Harper-Gratiot/Van Dyke area, but am uncertain about whether you'd consider that part of the same neighborhood. Also, the area below I94 seemed to have a different character than the area above. Any thoughts about that? Same neighborhood? Not sure about the "Gagalupe" name, Joken. I tried googling - the only thing that came up was a suggested correction to Guadalupe, a reference to a parish on the SW side of the city. | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2007 |
was told it meant something about a wolf or where the car go loop in reference to the street car barns at harper and gratiot. long time ago Kville | ||
Middleageguy Member Username: Middleageguy Post Number: 30 Registered: 01-2007 |
I have been told by a 90 yr old sicilian woman that there was an expression, "where the wolves pee". She was an est sider. It basically meant "way out there". She mentioned something about Gratiot, but I can't recall. So what I surmise is that the street car barns were way far away from the neighborhoods. Would that make sense? | ||
Kville Member Username: Kville Post Number: 25 Registered: 04-2007 |
Probably makes as much sense as a lot of expressions. Harper & Gratiot would have been "way out there" at one time, but it was fairly urban as long as anyone still living would probably remember. I remember the street cars running out as far as Gratiot & 7 Mile and my dad says he remembers that they did as long as he can remember too. Not sure where the street car barns would have been. | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 31 Registered: 05-2006 |
The street car barns were on Gratiot and Harper, The area was known as "cagalopa" (where the wolf shits). The Gratiot street cars went all the way to Eight Mile Rd. and made a turn-around at Eastwood Park. | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 4 Registered: 04-2007 |
your right caldogven.. went to eastwood park as a child many times. lived on milner not far from the streetcar barns on harper and gratiot. | ||
Royaloakian Member Username: Royaloakian Post Number: 86 Registered: 05-2004 |
Otto Fortuna's music studio was there on VanDyke, he had a television show in the 50's I think. My mother in law was a piano teacher there. There was a United Shirts store on the corner if I remember correctly. | ||
Kville Member Username: Kville Post Number: 30 Registered: 04-2007 |
Interesting trivia here. I tried googling "cagalopa" - but of course, nothing comes up. Too obscure, I'd guess. I'd still be interested to know if Harper-Van Dyke & Harper-Gratiot were considered part of the same "neighborhood" and how far below I94 they extended - perhaps to the intersection of Gratiot & Van Dyke? | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2007 |
Kville,the borders were gratiot/vandyke to harper/french. | ||
Kville Member Username: Kville Post Number: 31 Registered: 04-2007 |
Thanks Joken. I'm not sure how to visualize that, since those two intersections would be corners on the SW & NE, but I'm assuming that the area probably encompassed the territory east from Gratiot/Van Dyke over to French and west from Harper/French over as far as Van Dyke and Harper. | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 33 Registered: 05-2006 |
Kville... I would say it was Van Dyke from Gratiot to Georgia, and Harper from about Frontenac to Mc Clellan. | ||
Kville Member Username: Kville Post Number: 33 Registered: 04-2007 |
Thanks Caldogven. That kind of answers my original question about whether Harper-Van Dyke and Harper-Gratiot were part of the same neighborhood. It appears they were/are. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4305 Registered: 08-2004 |
From an old archived thread, I know that the Harper Ave. Streetcars went as far as Harper & Morang (between Cadieux & Moross), where the turntable & comfort station was located (near the 48224 Kensington Post Office). | ||
Senior Member Username: Senior Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2004 |
Joken, Kville, etc., You guys are close, but no cigar...The old Italian neighborhood at Harper & Van Dyke was known as "Cugga Luba" (where the Pigeons roost). One of my old grade school pals, Tony Imbrunone, brought me up to speed on the old neighborhood years ago. His Father, "Cango" Imbrunone was raised there and I'd believe he would be considered an authority on the area. His nickname stemmed from the strictness of his Parents, and whenever his buddies would want him to go somewhere, his answer would be "cango" which became his moniker. Senior | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 9 Registered: 04-2007 |
i remember the name from the old neighborhood. grew up with them guys.family names like imbrunone,crimando,cusmano and provensano were well known. thanks senior. | ||
Caldogven Member Username: Caldogven Post Number: 34 Registered: 05-2006 |
Joken Did you know any of the Provensano's who lived on McClellan near Warren? | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 10 Registered: 04-2007 |
Cal., i knew a sal and rick provensano who lived on milner. also Senoir,, the lombardo family. | ||
Larry Member Username: Larry Post Number: 163 Registered: 08-2004 |
Some photos of the Eastown Theatre http://cinematreasures.org/the ater/2075/ | ||
20043_stotter Member Username: 20043_stotter Post Number: 31 Registered: 03-2007 |
What was the name of the small theatre on the west side of Van Dyke, one block south of Harper? They had summer matinees featuring the old classics, frankenstein, wolfman, dracula etc. We would ride the bus from Outer Drive and VD., to that theatre during summer vacations to see Karloff and Lugosi. | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 12 Registered: 04-2007 |
it was called the vandyke theater STOTTER. | ||
Joe_j Member Username: Joe_j Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2007 |
Does anyone remember Joe Latorre's Grocery on Peterhunt and McClellan? How about Pete DeMarco? His store was on Rboerts and Harper. There also was Speed's Gas Station on Harper and the Harper/McClellan Market on that corner. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 5930 Registered: 02-2004 |
HAH! That near NE side Detroit ghettohood is long dead! White folks moved out low-income black folks moving in creating a psychological ghetto increasing their negative stronghold. They could have the power to fix their communities, but it takes unity and action not talk, bicker and brothers killing brothers. | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 18 Registered: 04-2007 |
hey joe; i remember latorres market. went to school with his daughter ann marie. harper/mcclellan market was the only large market in the area. there were many corner stores though. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 277 Registered: 11-2006 |
That theater building is amazing. I wish I had the money to buy it, and fix it up. It would be perfect. Too bad the block isn't complete anymore. The building next door was really cute too. | ||
Joe_j Member Username: Joe_j Post Number: 3 Registered: 05-2007 |
As I remember Joken, she was a little older than I and seemed above it all. do you remember the small store near PSJ where a nickel could get you a bag of candy? Did Tony Cusamato have a twin sister? I tossed the Detroit News for two years, probably around 1954-55. We picked up papers at the station on Georgia. My route included McClellan, Peterhunt, May, Roberts, and Harper back to McClellan. We moved from that area around 1958-59. | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 21 Registered: 04-2007 |
joe; it was vincent sweet shop, just a block away from school. | ||
Formerspringgardener Member Username: Formerspringgardener Post Number: 44 Registered: 07-2006 |
Joe_j- Pete DeMarco was a good friend of my Grandfather, Roy Wagner who used to live on Georgia. I remember going to his store when I was a little kid. Nice guy. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1721 Registered: 10-2003 |
The former old Italian neighborhood near Harper and Gratiot is consistently referred to as "Cacalupo" in the local Italian Tribune. I was always told that it means "where the wolf defecates." (Message edited by Fury13 on May 30, 2007) | ||
Joe_j Member Username: Joe_j Post Number: 6 Registered: 05-2007 |
Pete DeMarco was indeed a nice man He treated every kid like an important customer. When I went there you could get a bottle of Pepsi and a Twinkie for under 25 cents. | ||
Ladyinabag Member Username: Ladyinabag Post Number: 269 Registered: 03-2007 |
Does anybody remember Mike Miniaci and Paul Cassise? | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 25 Registered: 04-2007 |
joe; what corner was demarcos market on. i remember the name but the location eludes me. pepsi was a dime and 2 cents back for the bottle.LOL | ||
Joe_j Member Username: Joe_j Post Number: 9 Registered: 05-2007 |
Joken; it was on Harper and Robert. | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 26 Registered: 04-2007 |
Joe; i know the name demarco,probably went to school with his kids. didnt go to his store. went to vinton sweet shop near school. or the corner store on raymond,when i was around the school | ||
Joe_j Member Username: Joe_j Post Number: 15 Registered: 05-2007 |
Joken; i don't think he had any kids. he lived by himself behind the store. maybe another demarco. there were two stores near the school. the closest was on Vinton and Georgia. The one on Raymond was a couple blocks away. | ||
Louie666 Member Username: Louie666 Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2007 |
My father Louie Cetrone grew up on Peter Hunt street, lived there from the early 1920’s until about mid 1930’s. He took this picture from his house on Peter Hunt looking down Raymond towards Harper, probably in the 1930’s sometime.  I believe my father lived next to a store owned by John Garrisi. Can anyone post pictures of some of the neighborhood stores? | ||
Joe_j Member Username: Joe_j Post Number: 16 Registered: 05-2007 |
Louie; hi. nice pic, but if he took it from Peterhunt I think it was looking down Robert toward Harper - maybe Vinton, but Raymond went the other way. | ||
Louie666 Member Username: Louie666 Post Number: 2 Registered: 06-2007 |
Hi Joe, take a look at the image below, a section of Raymond street goes from Peter Hunt to Harper. You may need to zoom in on the image to see, the small green box I drew shows where the house used to be and the arrow points towards Harper...  | ||
Joken Member Username: Joken Post Number: 27 Registered: 04-2007 |
hey joe; wasnt there a small store on the corner of raymond and marcus. im not sure anymore, time may of clouded the picture some. | ||
Joe_j Member Username: Joe_j Post Number: 17 Registered: 05-2007 |
Joken; yes that's the one. the part showing Raymond going the other way is Raymond to Gratiot. wonder what it looks like today? | ||
Daf Member Username: Daf Post Number: 5 Registered: 02-2007 |
So Kettering High would be part of this neighborhood, right? I had an out-of-town friend ask me about Grace Lutheran Church, 5713 Van Dyke, a few months ago - I guess a friend of his was pastor there in the mid-60's. No sign of it now. Anyone know the scoop? I-94 went through earlier than that, right? | ||
Kville Member Username: Kville Post Number: 68 Registered: 04-2007 |
I lived not far from that area until 1982. Kettering is in that neighborhood (just south of I94). I don't remember Grace Lutheran Church, though. Any other info on it? I94 came through that area in the 50's and the church would have been around Palmer, 5 or 6 blocks south, so I94 didn't displace it. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 745 Registered: 01-2007 |
Welcome to Detroityes, Louie666. Nice ride. Now THATS stylin'! | ||
Daf Member Username: Daf Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2007 |
Looking at addresses driving through, it seems it would have been just north of Kettering. Same block, possibly. Perhaps the high school expanded? When was it built? When my granddaughter (5) rides in to work with me, she always watches for the big K. Cos then we're almost there. | ||
Louie666 Member Username: Louie666 Post Number: 3 Registered: 06-2007 |
Thanks for the welcome Bulletmagnet, that sure is a nice car... anyone recognize the model and year of the car in the picture of my post on June 3?? | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 3951 Registered: 10-2003 |
Great picture Louie666. Thanks for sharing and welcome to the forum. Looking forward to more! We have had the cagalupa / car-go-loopa 'debate' before. Some of my old Italian sources say the name derives from the Anglo-Italianization of car go loop as in the street cars looped around at the barns. The Italians, with their great sense of humor, further devovled that to cagalupa or where the the wolf [ahem]s. I seriously doubt if any there were in wolves in Detroit in the 20th Century. My source, Italian wife of Bruce Kennedy, former police chief of Grosse Pointe and handball legend. Fun postulation that will probably never be settled. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 48 Registered: 02-2007 |
BUMP |
